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I have opted out of the company car scheme and last year took out Class 3 insurance on advice after a long story. This year seems to be a toss up between Class 2 or 3 depending on the company you speak to as some don't do Class 3 and proceed to tell me that Class 2 is OK. Regrettably nobody seems to be able to give me a straight answer on the definition of any of these varying classes 1,2 or 3 ( my boss probably thinks social, domestic and pleasure will do ! ). I guess many people are in the same predicament and bad advice could prove costly of course should you try and claim when under insured or accept an unnecessary high premium. Now the car is my responsibilty obviously I want to ensure correct insurance. Does anybody know a decent unbiased website that will explain these terms in plain english. I am a sales manager travelling to pre-arranged appointments doing about 40K a year. Thanks to all.
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> Does anybody know a decent unbiased website that will explain
> these terms in plain english. I am a sales manager travelling
> to pre-arranged appointments doing about 40K a year. Thanks
> to all.
Do you carry samples ? What type, to what value ?
Does anybody else use the vehicle for either business or even travelling to & from work ?
Mileage per year ?
Do you carry customers/ colleagues on business ?
If so, specifically what is the business ?
You may prefer to e-mail me, feel free.
However, the business use does vary from insurer to insurer. If you have a specific insurance policy you wish to know about, fax it to me (e-mail first).
M.
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I don't carry samples as a rule but occasionally carry demonstration gear up to 12K GBP in value but it is not necessary to include these items in my car insurance - these remain at the company's risk.
My wife may occasionally use the car for pre-arranged visits to other offices - perhaps once per month. She has her own car normally on class 1 insurance but is included on the same terms in my policy by default and she is reimbursed at a higher rate whenever there is opportunity to use my car ( I work from home ).
My business mileage is about 35K per year plus 5 K private.
If I carry customers / colleagues it is rare and normally only to lunch for example or to the airport. Very rare otherwise.
Thanks for your interest in this problem, I appreciate your comments.
Regards,
Pete ( williams.peter.a@talk21.com )
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> I don't carry samples as a rule but occasionally carry
> demonstration gear up to 12K GBP in value but it is not
> necessary to include these items in my car insurance - these
> remain at the company's risk.
No, it is not necc. to have this included in your car insurance. However, you should make it clear that you are carrying them since it increases the theft risk of your car. A simple way can be to agree that they will always be locked out of sight.
> My wife may occasionally use the car for pre-arranged visits
> to other offices - perhaps once per month. She has her own
> car normally on class 1 insurance but is included on the same
> terms in my policy by default and she is reimbursed at a
> higher rate whenever there is opportunity to use my car ( I
> work from home ).
Are you sure about this ? Its quite possible, but you do need to be sure.
> If I carry customers / colleagues it is rare and normally
> only to lunch for example or to the airport. Very rare
> otherwise.
As far as I recall then provided you are not being paid to carry them, then you're ok. If you are being paid to carry them, then this is hire & reward and very expensive. Normal business use is usually sufficient where only expenses are involved.
> Thanks for your interest in this problem, I appreciate your
> comments.
You're welcome, but bear in mind they are only comments. You need to be sure about your own policy.
Mark.
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The following is general guidance. NOTHING substitutes for you reading your policy and asking questions specifically of your company. If you really are worried, describe your intended use in a letter and send it recorded delivery to a specific person at your insurance company stating that you would appreciate written confirmation of ....
As has been said, basic motor insurance useage definition is for social, domestic and pleasure only.
Some insurers include to & from permanent place of work, and some also include it for spouse. The only way to know is to read the motor insurance policy. Reading the certificate is not sufficient. However, this does *not* change the definition of S,D&P, it is normally added to with the words "including to & from.......".
As a general guide, if its a Lloyds syndicate it will err on the restrictive, from a composite it generally will err on the side of being less so.
The first level of business use is usually referred to as Class 1, could be B1, Class A, etc. but the principle remains the same. Class One is full business use, by you, in connection with your business. It does not include anybody else using the car on your business. It excludes class 2 or 3 useage.
It can, however, sometimes include other things such as use by your spouse on their business, but again you need to check your policy.
If you intend to allow other drivers to use the vehicle in connection with your business, you will need Class Two (B2, B, etc. )insurance.
Class three (B3, C, etc.) is to cover salesman. However, it is specifically aimed at "travelling salesman" or "Commercial Travelling". If you always travel on prearranged appointments, then Class One should be sufficient. Class 3 is normally aimed at door knockers.
Although carrying goods and carrying samples can become confusing. Essentially a sample is not something you would ever leave behind you, or use for anything other than showing. This whole subject is difficult, and without knowing what goods or samples you carry, then I cannot comment. However, be warned under some circumstances an insurance company can avoid theft cover for your vehicle if you are carrying stuff.
In all cases Motor Trade, Hire & Reward, Racing, Speed Trialling and about a million other things are excluded.
If you want any more basic English than that, then I can't help.
With the exception of licenced services (taxis etc. etc.) this has no effect on your legal RTA cover insofar as a policeman is concerned, however you may regret not checking in the event of an accident.
Be careful about your children using the car to & from college or university. This can get you in to questions about "use" and "main user".
Also, using your car for unpaid charity work can be iffy. Business use is not neccessarily *just* those things you are paid for. Especially if the charity pays your petrol expenses.
Just to get your mind going, things which may not be as clear as you thought..
Collecting old clothes
Running around other volunteers
Taking people to hospital in return for petrol expenses from a charity or other organisation
Meals on Wheels
These are *NOT* S,D&P and therefore may not be covered, although most insurance companies will simply add an endorsement (amending phrase) to your policy stating that the cover is included.
I'll say it again - *all* insurers have slightly different policies. You need to read and understand yours, and/or get written confirmation from your insurance company if you have a doubt.
Clearer ?
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I will certainly raise these issues again with my current insurer and when phoning around. I think the idea of writing is the best as most quotes are now done over the phone with no real records. Last year I told my insurer exactly what my job entailed, seeking their advice, and was pleased with the quotation ( Class 2, if I remember ) only to be later told that Class 3 was correct and I owed a further £300. After a fuss I was offered partial reimbursement for the time remaining on the policy but eventually decided to stick with it assuming they knew best of course and I might have the same trouble elsewhere - but I am now in a position to shop around again !
I'll let you know, thanks.
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> Last year I told my insurer exactly what my job entailed, seeking their advice, and was pleased with the quotation ( Class 2, if I remember ) only to be later told that Class 3 was correct and I owed a further £300.
Strange. Unless, and reading back it isn't clear, your wife uses the car for *your* business. Class 2 is normally not dependent on the use of the policyholder, that's Class 1 & 3; Class 2 is normally dependent on the use of other drivers.
The difference between Class 1 & Class 3 is the question of prearranged appointments. That's the thing to push. However, you will need to ensure that you keep an appointment book that you could produce to your insurers in the event of a serious accident (normally interpreted by them as "expensive").
Also, make sure you are clear about carrying the demo stuff. It most certainly is a significant increase in theft risk, but you have to be sure that they will not regard them as "commercial goods".
BTW, since the terminology changes all the time, its normally considered in this order
SD&P (with or without to & from)
Class 1/A/B1
Class 2/B/B2
Class 3/C/B3
I am assuming that you are not referring to one of the few insurers that refers to "SD&P incl to & from" as "Class One".
Also, bear in mind that the person you are talking with probably knows as much about motor insurance as the cashier in Tesco's knows about pig breeding. It would be unwise to believe their answer unless you have reason to. Normally, any question of this type *should* be referred to an underwriter, and you will be safer if it is.
Whatever you do, get something in writing about your usage and goods carriage.
Shout if you need more advice.
M.
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