time to move Rally GB from wales
IIRC, weren't these offences for last year, and the cases have only just gone to court?
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>> time to move Rally GB from wales IIRC, weren't these offences for last year, and the cases have only just gone to court?
correct DD.
This year's harvest still to be announced.
Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning some of the antics we see, but this one was, shall we say, strategically placed for maximum yield.
warning, going off topic from speed camera thread onto Rally GB thread. if you want to move this or put in a link its up to you.
If the event has to have the current local format, there are plenty of places where the event could be based. Eg what about the North East and use Kielder, Wauchope, Kershope, Otterburn, Hamsterley, not forgetting all the North Yorkshire forests.
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Related to the thread on new camera locations
Can anyone advise whether the Safety Scamera Partnerships control SPECS cameras or do these remain under the control of the local force as they are linked to DVLA records?
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Superb!
"Verifying the conditions". What codswallop!
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Moved to Speed Camera thread as that was the content of the prog/discussion - ND
Did any other back roomers see Quentin on GMTV this morning, speaking out about speed camera policies. I was amazed by the other guests attitude, to me she was way over the top and didn\'t do her cause any favours. In her view a crime is a crime, she never speeds, I can\'t help but wonder if she ever parks on double yellows that kind of thing. If so I\'d love to catch her. I don\'t know anybody that does absolutely nothing wrong.
Any comments?
Steve.
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saw it - her attitude was rubbish, there is no way she ever creeps to 33mph or so before realising - this is what i object to. the camera's are catching people travelling at a safe speed, maybe a little over rather than getting the stupid drivers off the road
this is not about road safety, its purely an easy revenue generator, driving at say 35mph is not as dangerous as tailgating, or many other things
i was flashed for 34mph when i consider that safe than the idiot in fron of me who went racing up to the camera,braked sharp, and sped up again immediatley after
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I wonder what is going on with details from speed cameras. I've been served with a NIP, within 10 days I've received a sales leaflet through the post for a Road Angel, this can't coincidence, I've not looked at these devices at all, registered on any website or phone anyone about this. Money making? seems so.
Any ideas?
Steve.
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According to the latest statistics from Avon and Somerset a staggering 3% of accidents are caused by excessive (ie greater than the speed limit) speed. 10% are caused by going too fast for the conditions both under and over the limit, 30% of those are in excess of the posted limit hence the 3% calculation. 48% are caused by lack of attention.
Figures from here: www.safespeed.org.uk/aands.html
Scamera partnerships should be concentrating on driver education and asking why so many accidents are caused by drivers not paying attention. What are they concentrating on instead? Are they all playing with phones, radios and complicated driver aids? How many of them are distracted looking out for scamera vans? Or is it a culture change that has meant that humans can no longer concentrate on any task for more than a few minutes without the mind wandering?
teabelly
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No doubt the other guest does transgress now and again, what's important is the attitude of "I'm not going to speed". If we all adopted that then we'd gradually break the speed limit less and less.
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Yes I saw him and totally agreed with what he said. Where does the speed camera money go, why isn't it used for driver education, why are most cameras not at accident blackspots?
As for South Wales Police, do they think they have gained friends with the public by setting up a speed camera to catch rally drivers?
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I really think that getting motorists to obsess about their speed doesn't help, I think I should be driving sensibly according to the previalent conditions and concentrating on the road not my speedo.
Common sense - obviously not common any more.
Steve.
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its not enjoyable to drive when you have to spend half the time worrying about if there is a camera about that will catch you out for going just over the limit on a motorway
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Oh no we've been sucked into the speed camera thread.........
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Oh no we've been sucked into the speed camera thread.........
So what else were you discussing?
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Apologies if this has appeared before.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3257523.stm
"Four of the world's top rally drivers have been banned from driving after being caught in speed traps in south Wales during the British leg of the world championships last year."
Another nail in the coffin of UK motorsport ...
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www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=17068&...e
Weeeeeeeeeeeeee! Off we go to the Speed Camera thread.
I'm enjoying this!
ND
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Apologies if this has appeared before.
Yep,
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=17...8
Beat you to it! ND
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Damn, beaten by 1 minute. I do hope you slowed down for that camera on the way, ND?
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Ok, I live in ruddy AFRICA, and I\'m supposed to know what was on GMTV this morning???!!!!????? :>)
Thnx for shifting it across, Dave and NoDosh!
[Twasn\'t me. DD.]
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If you'd seen GMTV you'd think yourself lucky! Just don't ask why I was watching it.
Steve.
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So are the Swede, Belgian and German all banned from driving outside of the UK? Does a ban in one country mean a worldwide ban?
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Ian(Cape Town)
My paper tells me that Kris Meeke, one of the many caught, was disqualified for 12 months and fined &300 after being caught driving at MORE THAN DOUBLE the speed limit of THIRTY.
That maybe OK on a Special Stage Off Road where I or the general public are not likely to drive but on the open road in my book it is a NO NO.
Having experience in supervising similar events in distant past
the attitude of I am a Rally Driver I can do what I want has no place amongst the general motoring public.Nor is the public road to be treated as a "shakedown section" so that calibration and test of various parts can take place.
Sorry FiF
DVD
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Thnx DVD. This begs the question: WHY do the organisers/teams set up calibration /shakedown/whatever sections on the public road anyway?
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Ian, I read it as the scameras were on the road that led to the stage area which was non-public road.
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Having experience in supervising similar events in distant past the attitude of I am a Rally Driver I can do what I want has no place amongst the general motoring public.Nor is the public road to be treated as a "shakedown section" so that calibration and test of various parts can take place. Sorry FiF DVD
No problem DVD, and actually I do agree in the main with what you say.
I would question the attitude or observational skills of someone who manages to drive past a speed trap, however well hidden, more than 10 times and still doesn't get the message that it's there.
But considering the location of the particular road in question, why not first time someone ie a competitor or support crew (easily identifiable btw) came past too quick they get a pull and a sharply administered verbal cuff round the ear'ole. If they trangress after that, at any point, nick 'em and chuck 'em out of the event. That would sort it once and for all.
In order to modify one's behaviour first of all one has to have it pointed out such behaviour is not acceptable.
Personally I like the FIA response "it would appear that Wales is a very dangerous place and as we place safety at the top of our priorities maybe we shouldn't come here."
So that's £15m less for the Welsh economy then!
:joke mode on:
You're just sore that I suggested an extra £15m quid for North Yorkshire and all the overtime you're now missing!
:joke mode off:
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It's a fair cop, just give me the ticket.
My initial point was the other guests attitude, not really whether speed cameras are right or not.
I don't understand where the argument is, I haven't yet heard a motorist voice the opinion that speeding's good or doesn't matter. Everyone that defends them tries to make out we are all anarchists or criminals that try to justify wanton flouting of the law. I just don't get it.
Could we persuede Quentin to stand for election of a new political party, could be called the 'motorists party'. OK just kidding!
Steve.
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no i do agree, people who are getting caught are not setting out to speed and personally i agree the limits should be stuck to, but there needs to be more descretion in the leeway, or a review of the penalties, at the moment if you travel 35mph 4 times in 3 years you loose your lisence
that just isnt justified when clowns are on the road but there is less interest in stopping them it seems
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It's all been said before, I'm sure but here goes...
There's often a case in the local papers where a 'driver' has been stopped with no 'papers' at all and what do they get? Pobably on the dole and so will get away with a token punishment. Honest motorist caught speeding stand to lose far more for a 'lesser' crime.
I was caught by not paying full attention, 43mph on a 2 lane dual carridgeway in an industrial area at 7.15pm on a Sunday in dry weather. All my fault really, the dual carridgeway is a 30 zone. Where as all the surroundind dual carridgeways that cut through residential areas are 40 zones.
Steve.
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oor the amount of asylumn seekers who are given a benefit to by a car yet have no experience of a british road and only a tractors lisence from abroad - are these less danger than me travelling at 34??
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oor the amount of asylumn seekers who are given a benefit to by a car yet have no experience of a british road and only a tractors lisence from abroad - are these less danger than me travelling at 34??
Going off at a tangent here and risking being deleted but:
Can you provide a single proven example of benefit being given to asylum seekers for this purpose?.
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our local government in kent provides 1000 pounds for a car to them
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Glowplug - isn't "not paying full attention" a fairly dangerous thing, especially to the extent that your speed is nearly 50% above the limit (not counting the fact that your speedo would almost certainly have been reading higher than 43).
I agree about other offences that need attention, but some of them are very difficult to detect without random checks, and then the civil liberties brigade would be all over it! It's too easy to point at someone else and say "they're worse than me!"
Did the "driver" stopped with no papers do anything dangerous before he was stopped? He would probably argue that a speeding driver was more dangerous than him, as he wasn't putting anyone at greater risk of injury!
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Now as you know I'm old school, if you're guilty and you know you are, the offence being due to either deliberate decision or inattention then there is only one course of action, "hands up it's a fair cop guvnor, yer got me bang ter rights!"
Equally I don't have any truck with the "I've got a NIP, if I get my third cousin twice removed to fill it in for me and send it in unsigned, and if the photo isn't clear enough to show the colour of socks I was wearing what are the chances of getting off 65 in a 30?"
Yeah right!...but........
round here there has been a case (or two) dropped due to the driver claiming that they had sneezed at an inappropriate moment and this resulted in them speeding for a short fraction of time, just at the point of the check.
Ha Ha really! Yes I agree too, but......
It was "proved" in pre trial discussions that the trigger limit for the offence had been set so close to the actual limit that this was indeed a technical possibility and it was unsafe to proceed, hence prosecution dropped.
The question is this. Does anyone think this is a sensible way to enforce the law? I for one say it is not.
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Funny thing the law Fif as I think you know.
Way,way back, HM Advocate v Ritchie 1926 - automatism is a defence to a charge of dangerous driving provided that a person takes reasonable steps to prevent himself from acting involuntary in a manner dangerous to the public. It must be caused by some factor which he could not reasonably foresee and not by self induced incapacity.
Can you control a sudden sneeze - keep your eyes open, head up?
Looks as if this piece of case law has crossed to speeding.
Conversely and often quoted - wasp flies into car. Not a defence if you suddenly swat it. You should leave alone and bring your vehicle to stop to deal with it.
My beef is that if someone is three times over the limit then a proceedural error should not result in his acquittal.
DVD
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Maybe one of you gents with legal knowledge can clear something up for me. I remember some time ago seeing an article about a speed limit that had to be removed as it was too short. Apparently there was some legislation that said a speeding penalty could only be applied if the offence was committed over a certain distance - and the limited zone in this case wasn't long enough.
I've always assumed that this must only have applied to offences detected by the car-based time/distance measuring methods for accuracy reasons, and that's why an instantaneous reading from a camera/handheld can be used.
Is this the case? Does the requirement for a minimum length of speed limit still apply, or was it just a limit for the distance used for speed measurement?
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Well, if I was speeding then that's that. My point is that I really did think the dual carridgeway was a 40 zone (yes I do know my highway code - passed the motorcycle theory test a year ago with full marks in half the allotted time), I wasn't paying full attention because because the road was empty all around me for a considerable distance, I was watching the road not my speedo. Strikes me as harsh for a unintentional slip.
Steve.
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SR
The advice from HMG to Local Authorities in Circular Roads 1/93 which deals with speed limits is that limits should not be used to solve problems of an isolated hazards as they would be difficult to enforce over short lengths.
Further it is stated that generally LA's should aim for at least half a mile.
On the enforcement aspect it was, and I believe still is, ACPO Policy (Ass of Chief Plod Officers)that as far as detected speeding by a follow and by Vascar, then there should be a distance of at least two tenths of a mile involved. Obviously Hand Held and Cameras, because of their accuracy down to milliseconds, then distance is not a requirement.
DVD
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What a shame ,just heard that a revenue generator 'speed camera' has been blown up in Scotland. Oh dear, never mind.
I am happy.
Alf
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One of the tabloids I was browsing the other day affectionally nicknamed them "greed Cameras"
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I've seen one with what appeared to be chewing gum in the lock.
Fairly subtle but means you have to drill the lock out to get at the film.
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8< Snip 8<
You didn\'t think for one moment that would escape the eyes of a moderator, did you? DD.
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