Never let it be said I don't bite when baited...! Sorry smokie but you're referring to my thread, and what you're saying is utter crap.
.................for one, and I'm now facing having to drive a crap car for a while through no fault of my own.
How did those sneak through? I thought one was supposed to use the fish word. What was it? Oh yes! Carp.
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Sorry!!
I thought that was quite tame compared to what I could have used!
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I'm not criticising; when I used an inappropriate word on here the server automatically censored me and it came out as c**p! Personally, I think carp is a great alternative. I look forward to suggesting that someone appearing before me is talking carp.
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Apparently the Queen has a talking Billy Bass for just that, HH.
PG - I was definitely criticising my sister's attitude towards her accident. She however has no interest in driving and sees it as a bit of a chore.
You have defended yourself very well however. I do think Smokie has a valid point though; it is amazing how many times an accident is entirely the other driver's fault, or nothing could be done to avoid it - and this applies to all drivers of all levels of experience. It does make you wonder about their awareness or car control in those circumstances though.
I think that, when there is doubt as to fault there is an unfair tendency to blame the younger driver, especially if he's male - although there are also plenty of drivers who live up to that stereotype.
So far, touch wood (well probably veneer) I've never had an accident except parking and I can't comment on what my attitude is, but I hope it would be as thorough and as honest as yours.
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My experience of driving in and around Birmingham is that the natives commonly ignore the markings on multi-lane roundabouts, and take the shortest route across regardless of other traffic.
Being "aware" for me is expecting it to happen, and being positioned to mesh with the other lanes should they cut across.
Larger vehicles often have no choice but to blur across the lanes anyway.
Having said that though, any of us can be in the wrong place at the right time..
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I've been driving for twelve years and must have driven many many thousands of miles in a variety of vehicles from cars to transits to seven and a half tonners to buses to coaches. And, so far (touch formica) have not had a blameable crash (although I have had some fairly spectacular ones that were not blameable). This, I am convinced, is more down to luck than judgement as I have done some indescribably stupid things in my time.
On the subject of the word 'accident' - surely very few crashes can actually be called true accidents. A true accident is something that could not reasonably have been predicted and, if we all have our wits about us as we are supposed to do, we can all virtually all the time predict what is about to happen on the road around us. I don't know whether it is because I drive for a living, but I have found that nine times out of ten I can second guess what the driver in front/behind/to the side is about to do.
PoloGirl - good on you! I've rarely seen such a committed defence on these pages. I don't want to sound patronising here but please do keep on posting on all topics - there's a few pigeons around here that could do with a cat amongst them ;-)!!!!
Cheers
Rob
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Rob, just for info,
The HSE definition of an accident is:
"An unplanned and an unwanted event"
So, all crashes can be called accidents, unless a deliberate attempt was made by any or all parties involved to collide.
On the point of driving in general, (although I cannot confirm this as I don't know her) poor Pologirl is quite probably a safe driver, like most others on our roads. However, there are two extremes of good drivers IMO, one who follows the highway code but is still at the mercy of those really stupid people, or other peoples' mistakes, and the other type is he or she who not only follows the highway code etc, but can anticipate likely accident scenarios. I suggest that most of us fall into that spectrum somewhere.
For example, someone who has just passed their test may keep a safe distance behind a car in front, but fails to account for the plonker right up their backside - so, car infront stops, he or she stops in time, but get's rear ended by the plonker behind.
However, someone that can at least mitigate the risk presented by the idiot behind, may choose to signal politely to him to pull back, or even let him overtake, thus disposing of a risk that he is not strickly responsible for.
H
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Hugo,
>>The HSE definition of an accident is:
>>"An unplanned and an unwanted event"
Fair point - I should have remembered that, being an ex-Trade Union H&S Rep!
I just feel uncomfortable calling a crash an accident when there is an element of blame. Doing this, I feel, makes those who are involved think "whoops, well it was an accident - nothing that I could have done" without actually questionning their driving.
And please be assured that I was never ever criticising PoloDriver's driving. From what she has posted, she seems to be a very clued-up driver and does not need me (or anybody else) to defend her!
>>For example, someone who has just passed their test may keep a >>safe distance behind a car in front, but fails to account for >>the plonker right up their backside - so, car infront stops, >>he or she stops in time, but get's rear ended by the plonker >>behind.
Again, fair point. But that would then be the fault of the plonker if I am reading the hypothetical situation correctly.
Cheers
Rob
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Hiya Rob
"And please be assured that I was never ever criticising PoloDriver's driving. From what she has posted, she seems to be a very clued-up driver and does not need me (or anybody else) to defend her"
I know you weren't criticising Pologirl's' driving Rob, and I don't think anyone else was either. Though the question was asked, "How come so many non fault accidents?" although she has only had two.
I was trying to point out though that IMO drivers should learn how to mitigate risks posed to them by other drivers, and therefore become less likely to be involved in non fault accidents.
By the way Rob, I too was a H and S rep!
How's HF?
Cheers
H
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Hello Hugo
I think maybe that accident/hazard perception is the way forward here. In a previous job (still bus driving though) all the drivers had to go through a defensive driving course. Personally, I found it enormously useful and still use what I learnt today. Incidentally, accident rates at that particular depot plummeted...
Maybe the Government should concentrate less on gimmicks and rhetoric and demonstrate it's committment to road safety by giving each and every driver a defensive driving course, free of charge, at (for example) five year intervals. We pay enough to this, or indeed any, Government so it's payback time!
>>I was trying to point out though that IMO drivers should learn how to mitigate risks posed to them by other drivers, and therefore become less likely to be involved in non fault accidents.
Oh, I agree entirely Hugo. Since I started my new job down here in the jungle that is South London I drive my bus at all times with the headlamps on and I find that near misses have diminished considerably. Maybe Sweden has got the right idea...
>>By the way Rob, I too was a H and S rep!
Good, innit?! I really enjoyed it, but unfortunately a long bout of sickness forced me to resign. What good is an H&S rep if he is never there?
>>Well blow me down :-)
Hmmmm, as you will gather HF is still her usual rumbunctious self ;-).
Cheers
Rob
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Smokie - first, I agree 100% with your post that started this whole thread off. It is just so true that so many people feel that things are not their fault, when they could easily have taken some sort of action to avoid disaster, or that they haven't realised that it was all their fault in the first place.
A quick word to Pologirl - I may be wrong here, but I am sure that on your other thread you posted, several times, that none of your accidents have been your fault whatsoever - and yet here you are saying that you never said that? Either you had some sort of responsibility or you didn't, surely?!
We have the pleasure of all sorts of people from all walks of life on this site, and most of them are very reasonable and sensible people, who I have no need to take issue with. Regulars will know that I cannot always refrain myself, however, from commenting on the actions of certain individuals. Not having a go at any particular person here.
As I said above, agree with Smokie totally, and will end my semi-rant there.
HF
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"Regulars will know that I cannot always refrain myself...."
Well - blow me down! :)
H
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My brother had an accident in the outside lane of the motorway. Usual thing, traffic travelling along at 70-80 then suddenly everyone hammers on their anchors.
My brother is still adamanat that to this day it was not his fault that he ran into the car in front of him. The guy he hit had ABS and his car came to a standstill quicker than it should have done..........
To back this up, he claims that when they were all stationary, there was a good 10 yards in front of the car that he hit, and if he had used that extra space to brake then my brother would have had time to stop!
Makes sense to him.....
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Morning all!
A quick word to Pologirl - I may be wrong here, but I am sure that on your other thread you posted, several times, that none of your accidents have been your fault whatsoever - and yet here you are saying that you never said that? Either you had some sort of responsibility or you didn't, surely?!
Well if we're going to get technical about this, the only reason I had to claim some off my own insurance for the incident on the M6 was that the lorry driver with the blown out tyre didn't stop. It was him who *caused* the accident. Yes I hit the back of the other lorry but it wouldn't have happened if the other guy had maintained his tyres properly. (I've got an insurance report stating this, along with the police report.)
It also wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been on the M6, which wouldn't have happened if I hadn't moved to Stoke, which wouldn't have happened if I hadn't got such fab exam results, been born in 1980, left ten minutes earlier etc etc. I could go on but it was an accident, just that.
>>And please be assured that I was never ever criticising >>PoloDriver's driving. From what she has posted, she seems to >>be a very clued-up driver
Blimey can I have that in writing please for the next time I get abuse driving through Birmingham? Thankfully I wasn't born here so feel free to criticise the natives all you like!
And to the person who suggested not getting on the inside of a lorry on a roundabout - have you ever tried that in Wolverhampton?? I'd need bullet proof glass if I wanted to leave that much of a gap and hold the traffic up that much!
Sorry, after the week I've had, I'm losing the will to take this seriously any more.
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>>feel free to criticise the natives all you like!
Ooh, can I?!?
>>have you ever tried that in Wolverhampton??
I recently drove around Wolverhampton trying to find the A41 northbound without the aid of a roadmap. Jeez! The natives gave me no time whatsoever to get my bearings and basically I got the distinct impressions that if I dithered about too much I'd end up having a free night's accomodation in the local A&E!
I'm sure that Wolverhampton has it's share of good points and lovely people but as far as driving goes - forget it!
>>Blimey can I have that in writing please for the next time I get abuse driving through Birmingham?
Erm...it is in writing! Just print it off! ;-)
Cheers
Rob
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>And to the person who suggested not getting on the inside of a >lorry on a roundabout - have you ever tried that in >Wolverhampton?? I'd need bullet proof glass if I wanted to >leave that much of a gap and hold the traffic up that much!
Disagree.
You only have worry about the bullets in Handsworth :-O
Anyway, if you're prepared to be jostled into a potentially lethal situation by some myopic prat who can't see why you're holding back from going under the wheels of a 42 tonner.. well that's not an accident: it's a deliberate!
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You only have worry about the bullets in Handsworth :-O
Oh dear... I live in Wolves and drive through Handsworth every day!! I can't wait til my time here is up and I can escape back down south!
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And to the person who suggested not getting on the inside of a lorry on a roundabout - have you ever tried that in Wolverhampton??
No, but have *you* ever tried driving a lorry? Many car drivers simply don't try to understand the problems associated with trying to drive such a large vehicle, not to mention the factors such as restricted rearwards visibility due to the trailer. You need to take these things in to account when driving close to lorries.
An amusing moment when I was on the bus to uni was when this lass behind me very loudly commented that she didn't think the bus driver was very good as he'd (in her opinion) overshot the corner and had made it hard for him to swing round. I turned around, pointed out the window at the barrier about 3" from the side of the bus and commented that if she'd been driving the bus there would have been a nice scrape down the side by now.
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Sorry smokie but you're referring to my thread, and what you're saying is utter crap.
No, Smokie makes a very good point. Whether or not he's referring to you with any of his points, they are all good. You can be the perfect driver and still be involved in accidents just by pure bad luck. You can be an appalling driver and somehow be in the right place at the right time and avoid accidents no matter what. And also, you can get in to awkward positions without realising.
I had the presence of mind to consider all my options as the accident was happening.
You missed 'Not get inside a truck on a roundabout in the first place as they not only need more room but cannot always see cars inside them that well, and when worst comes to worst if they want to be somewhere they will go there as it will hurt you more than them'
How was any of what happened my fault.
Again, in no way Smokie says that what *happened* was your fault, he was simply pointing out that in *some* cases, accidents are avoidable *before* they happen by looking around you and considering possibilities.
You were unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and in the circumstances you did the best you could. All Smokie was pointing out is that while some people are unlucky to be in the wrong place, other people put themselves in the wrong place without realising it. All very sensible, any of which he could have meant to apply to you but no reason to take it as a slur.
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Pologirl, I'll quite happily admit that for some reason your post was the one which made me think of the many many instances of individuals who somehow seem to have more than their fair share, but I wasn't trying to have a pop at you personally - if I was I would have posted within your thread.
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Well defended pologirl, and well said Steve 'You can be the perfect driver and still be involved in accidents just by pure bad luck. You can be an appalling driver and somehow be in the right place at the right time and avoid accidents no matter what. And also, you can get in to awkward positions without realising.' Very wise words indeed.
My friends a long distance HGV driver, it's fair worrying to be a passenger when he's driving his car and forgets he's not in the cab and swings out to take the corners better! He also can't reverse that 106 at all, he's fabulously skilled at the HGV reversing with the double trailer too, but a miniature 106 and he's stuck!
Well my first accident was my fault, the woman infront of me stopped on the filter lane despite the fact the road she was pulling into being completely free of traffic, and me looking across at the empty road went smack into the back of her! I'd still like to know why she stopped when the road was empty, she said she always did, maybe it should be called a stop lane then, not a filter! But yes it was my fault but I refused to admit that bit until I left my bolshy teen years behind!!!
The second was caused by an old man on a old motorbike who pulled across infront of me, and the road had been clear of traffic for miles! Wrote my car and his bike off. He tried to claim I was young and speeding, he told the police, I must have been doing at least 60, i told the police I was doing about 45 which their report later given the length of my brake marks visible on the road. Touch wood I've been accident free for the last 9 or 10 years.
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>>The guy he hit had ABS and his car came to a standstill quicker than it should have done..........
Am I wrong in believing that ABS does not necessarily actually stop you more quickly but instead allows you to steer while braking hard?
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HH,
Correct!
Matt35.
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Correct, at least if you're driving properly and manage to put enough pressure on while not locking the brakes. Probably for most drivers, ABS would shorten the stopping distance - but only because of the driver's inadequacy.
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As a PS to this - the major advantage of ABS being the ability to steer while under braking......if it happens to you;
There is no point in looking at what you are trying not to HIT - try to look at where you want the car to GO, and try to steer there.
Matt35.
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My understanding is that in dry conditions ABS can potentially slightly lengthen stopping distances. However, in wet conditions it will provide shorter stopping distances than just pushing the pedal hard as it will prevent the wheels locking. A good driver would prevent the wheels locking anyway but most people would just stand on the anchors and hope.
As many have noted, the main advantage is allowing you to steer.
A similar question - what does EBD do? I'd have guessed it maximises the braking input to each wheel, but surely ABS does that as well if the amount of braking applied is greater than the grip available?
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