Not really motoring discussion section, IMO. :)
Agreed trilogy. However seeing as I am here......
I would make it compulsory to vote, even if it was 'for none of the above'. There is a bit of a windbag in my local who owns a medium sized engineering company. This of course qualifies him as an authority on fiscal policy within government. I challenged him one evening and during the course of the conversation he revealed that he never votes. A waste of time in his opinion. Everyone just fell about laughing. Now no one takes any notice of him. How can anyone hold serious opinions about the government if they don't vote? QED.
Cheers Concrete
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Concrete, I was going to stand for the party 'for none of the above'. However, I was informed 'for none of the above' would be at the top of the voting slip. It would have to be 'none of the others'
As regards not voting, I am in a safe seat. Whatever I do won't make any difference. For over 250 years the same party's candidate has won the election. Anyway, I like parts of most, but dislike probably just as much. Much like last time, it will be the best of a bad bunch.
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Not really motoring discussion section, IMO. :)
I agree really! But as the proverb says
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing"
Now, I'm not specially good or bad, but I like my voice to be heard (sometimes)
But I find the mix of views on here generally good and informative and Gordonbennet always makes me :>) , and my mistake in asking one candidate for information in the past got me buried under d***** sent from his parliamentary office, naturally at taxpayer expense..
personally i won't be voting for 2 k******s.
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Don't you just love the swear filter..
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This has become one of the most anti election campaigns it's been my misfortune to live through, we often have to vote for what we hope will be the least dangerous of those desperate for power, but this time around apart from one party the rest of them have majored on why we shouldn't vote for the other and the rest have come up extremely short of reasons why we should vote for them.
I believe it's one's duty to vote if you are capable of rational thought, but it shouldn't be a legal requirement because there are too many people unable to think for themselves and that would mean the party owned by the richest corporations would always win, partly due to their more expensive brainwashing and targeted bribes.
The propaganda, open lying, soundbites are there to sway those easily led or bribed with boring predictability by a few giveaways of magic money in the weeks before the election, now some people might be persuaded to stop watching the standard prime time TV rubbish and get themselves to the polling station, but i firmly believe if it was compulsory then more of the above bribery would be on offer to make it 'worth their while' to sell their vote.
I'm not in the least surprised that vast swathes of the country can't be bothered to vote, the parties and in many cases their utterly contemptible leaders and mouthpieces would be enough to put anyone off, luckily for every one who is part of the current problem, there are enough people sickened by them to make the effort to vote against them.
I've always voted, yes i think it's my duty, it's also my duty to vote for whom i think will do their best for the common good for our country, i will never vote for someone who tries to bribe me with someone else's money.
ORB it may be in the wrong forum but you are right to remind people, and sorry if i make you throw up..:-)
Regards all.
Edited by gordonbennet on 17/04/2015 at 21:20
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Does my "smiley" mean that? if so apologies..
I used it because it reminds me of my nose, in my youth i looked like concord with the droop snoot in landing position after contact with a hard steering wheel going over an unlit trench across a country road, till surgery...
perhaps hj can let us put little emoticons...
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Does my "smiley" mean that? if so apologies..
I used it because it reminds me of my nose, in my youth i looked like concord with the droop snoot in landing position after contact with a hard steering wheel going over an unlit trench across a country road, till surgery...
perhaps hj can let us put little emoticons...
No apology necessary ORB, i was pulling your leg.
Hooters, yep mines too big, so are me shell likes, so are me feet...given my usual luck in other areas i was at the back of the queue..:-)
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I believe it's one's duty to vote if you are capable of rational thought, but it shouldn't be a legal requirement because there are too many people unable to think for themselves and that would mean the party owned by the richest corporations would always win, partly due to their more expensive brainwashing and targeted bribes.
I think we should revert to the notion that we vote for the best candidate to represent our constituency. Yes, most of them will be affiliated to a party, with all the baggage that implies, but when a large proportion of the public imagines that they are voting for Cameron or Miliband, we need to focus our thoughts afresh.
For a long time I have voted LibDem because their thinking is closest to my own sympathies - centre leftish. But this time I am voting blue (already have), because our present MP is standing again, he has done a lot of good work for this constituency, and his majority is not large.
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I think we should revert to the notion that we vote for the best candidate to represent our constituency. Yes, most of them will be affiliated to a party, with all the baggage that implies, but when a large proportion of the public imagines that they are voting for Cameron or Miliband, we need to focus our thoughts afresh.
For a long time I have voted LibDem because their thinking is closest to my own sympathies - centre leftish. But this time I am voting blue (already have), because our present MP is standing again, he has done a lot of good work for this constituency, and his majority is not large.
That's a very valid point but unfortunately in the big issues facing the country, your local MP will ineitably trundle into the lobby they are told to by the Whips to endorse the wishes of their identikit leaders...too many times they've cried wolf and threatened to rebel and then on the day they do exactly as told, so regular has this been its now boringly predictable.
I'm the other way, i'm voting for the party overall who across the board wish for the same things as i do in the vast majority of issues.
I will not tactically vote despite the local sitting blue being one of the very best, as despite his own widely known anti EU stance his and other good blues views count for nothing in the lucifer blairite world of what is currently masquerading as their party.
It matters not whether my vote lets the labour candidate in, there is so little differenece between the leaderships and aspirations of the lab/tory party's now they could be joined at the hip, i for one do not believe that we will get a fair referendum of the EU under cameron alone, indeed its entirely possible that we'll see a tory/labour collaboration yet, cameron doesn't want UKIP biting his backside any more than milliband wants the SNP selling him grudging support for the next 5 years...so cameron will be looking for any excuse to either not hold the referendum at all or load the questions as we've seen in Ireland who did the unthinkable and said No only for that to be ignored and rejigged/renamed/bought to get the Yes vote.
Personally i'll be very glad when the election is over, i've never heard so much waffle from the lib lab con leaders repeated ad infinitum and spun by their media lackeys when not one of them has answered a single direct question to date, its been soundbites all the way, the daily bribes of money from the magic tree to get potential buyable selected groups on side has been truly sickening.
Interestingly there has been a voting intentions poll going on since Apr 22nd on a truckers forum i use regularly, i'm rather surpised that as from day one of the poll running and currently 418 votes cast UKIP have maintained a steady 47% of the vote, tories 28%, labour 10%, lib dem/green on 1% each and others/not voting 13% between them.....what's surprising is that the most outpoken views in previous discussions have been very anti UKIP supporters often enough laced with the usual insults...it does make you wonder what potential there could be for other mainly working class (as am i) voters in the wider country to be quietly intending to put their cross against UKIP too.
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Whilst I sympathise with many Ukippers opinions about the current crop of politicians from the 'mainstream' parties (especially MPs), I think many are, in my view, quite wrong in their assumption that there's 'no difference' between them - despite the LibDems (generally) doing their best to spoil things, the Tories have kept the country afloat during the worse economic recession since the 1930s, and is slowly (much more than I would like) improving.
If the Labour party had won back in 2010, or if they do this time round, we wouldn't/will not have a country left - we would've ended up like France, Portugal, etc, or worse still, Greece. As I see it, the problem with many people on the right or left fringes of the established parties who have moved to UKIP (and those whose similar views found no home previously) is that they, in my view, think of policies in absolute terms - "its my way or the highway".
I understand that compromise politics is often just as bad (or sometime worse) than not, but to be frank, I've rarely seen views held by such voters (and quite a few MPs who are on the left/right fringes) properly and congently articulated to others - often in rude, inflamatory and sanctamonious terms, as if everyone who doesn't hold their opinion are stupid little oiks who deserve the worst.
I have seen this take hold on the Telegraph website's 'Comments' section (same on many news organisations websites), where very few people put forward rational arguments (on both sides of an argument) based on real facts, not just lies, rumour and sometimes downright hostility. What happened to informed opinion and reasoned debate? Sometimes I think we as a nation have imported the worst aspects of cultures around the world, and now we are at a crossroads.
As such, everyone needs to think long and hard about the society they want, not just selfishly for themselves and over the short term, not just because they 'hate' X or Y politician or group of people, possibly neglecting to remember their own responsibilities in society and/or for their own personal situation (rather than blaming everyone else/the government for their woes), plus doing what's best for your family and the country as a whole.
As a long-term Conservative-voting person, I have, to be honest, always reluctantly supported them, not because I want to see a raft of right-wing policies, but because they are the least worst option to enable this country to reasonably prosper over the long term to the advantage of every citizen.
My vote this time around will stay with them, as I feel that despite some UKIP policies being good, many are framed around (IMO) isolationism, division and, in some quarters, racism (as I have witnessed on the Comments section of the DT - very similar ironically to the type of sectarian abuse I believe to be [IMO] sanctioned/tollerated by nationalist parties elsewhere in the UK) - this sort of thing concerns me just as much as attitudes/policies on the economy, education, crime, health, defence, etc.
Too many UKIP policies are designed to appeal in a short-termist, populist way to the dissafected without really solving any of the problems we face, which is why most Tory voters have not switched sides (never mind the electoral maths) - the local/EU election results never give a true representation of public opinion as, to be honest, most people can't be bothered thes days with local politics, and so the turnout is so low that any poll gives minor parties such as UKIP a much higher percentage than in national elections. I also do not like the way UKIP is run - even more centrally controlled (by Farage and his mates) than the other parties.
In many ways, we as a nation are at a similar point as we were after the 1930s depression - growing nationalism/extermism/isolationism/racism across much of Europe, not just in the UK. This is, undoubtedly, partly the fault of the way the EU operates/is run and how politicians have run things generally, but we all should take our own share of the blame, as many of bought into the prevailing culture, or did nothing/very little (shouting at your TV/radio or ranting online doesn't accomplish anything) if we didn't.
What we need is for the non-socialists to come together and form a set of policies than actually address the problems we face, not just some headline-grabbing rubbish that doesn't stand up to even the most basic critique. That means that we ALL will have to both listen and, in some ways, compromise on some issues if we are to move forward and keep Labour and the other socialist (they're so afraid of the word, they have to refer to themselves as 'progressive' now!).
We all have to realise that, especially now, we cannot afford to let them in and finish the job of permanently ruining this great nation by petty bickering and dividing ourselves into little groups who have no influence, but who confort themselves after losing that they are 'still right' (often because they did a rubbish job of persuading everyone else of their arguments/policies). If enough people joined the Tories (for example), then policies and personnel would eventually change - taking the best from UKIP and from those voters who never have found a party they could support fully - me included. Its the only way we can change things for the better.
Many thanks for (if you haven't fallen asleep yet!) reading.
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To sum up, until fairly recently much of the electorate regarded an election like a football match, where one usually supported either the Blue team or the Red - a bit like living in Liverpool or Manchester. And many preferred to vote out someone they disliked, rather than vote in support; and as the home team was usually at one end or the other of the political spectrum, the LibDems usually missed out. No-one wants to play for a draw. The saddest thing was all those ex-LibDem voters who switch allegiance because Clegg 'didn't keep his promises'. How could he, in a coalition? And who else keeps theirs?
Now they have to choose between several teams, most with unattractive captains; people don't know what to do, and most of them believe it won't make much difference. But if hardly anyone votes, maybe we should look for a benevolent autocrat?
Edited by Andrew-T on 04/05/2015 at 16:35
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To sum up, until fairly recently much of the electorate regarded an election like a football match, where one usually supported either the Blue team or the Red - a bit like living in Liverpool or Manchester. And many preferred to vote out someone they disliked, rather than vote in support; and as the home team was usually at one end or the other of the political spectrum, the LibDems usually missed out. No-one wants to play for a draw. The saddest thing was all those ex-LibDem voters who switch allegiance because Clegg 'didn't keep his promises'. How could he, in a coalition? And who else keeps theirs? Exactly! I think some people amazingly believe you can get all you want in a coalition...you'd think most people would know better, given most are or have been in some kind of relationship!
Now they have to choose between several teams, most with unattractive captains; people don't know what to do, and most of them believe it won't make much difference. But if hardly anyone votes, maybe we should look for a benevolent autocrat? Perhaps not...don't forget its Star Wars day today, and look how benevolent their autcrat turned out to be! :-)
In all seriousness, I think many people, sometimes myself included, think that politicians should solve all of life's problems, which obviously is patently wrong - we ALL should bear responsibility for changing the world we live in. At least politicians have the guts to put their name forward to do something, even if most of the time they accomplish very little.
A few things most of us should remember when being quick to blame politicians (I am not saying they are blameless, just not as much as we believe) and bankers for the position we have recently found ourselves in:
1. Most home owners never seemed to mind the huge rise in house prices from the mid 90s to 2007/8, which for many (especially those over 50) will even today pay a large chunk towards their retirement, to the detriment of younger people who either cannot afford to get on the housing ladder or pay a fortune for poor quality rented accomodation. Only when some lost their jobs did the complaints start to come. Ever heard of borrowing only what you can afford, including taking into account a period of unemployment?
2. Very few people questioned Gordon Brown's phrase 'the end to boom and bust' at the time (except the doom-mongerers who said it about everything all the time, so they don't count) and continued to max out on their credit cards (as the Labour government did at the time) to get 'one up on the Joneses' by purchasing the latest iPhone, Audi or Nike trainers all the time. I for one was always amazed at how many so-called poor people living council accomodation could afford such items, or Satellite TV (its amazing how many run-down council flat blocks are festooned with Sky dishes), when I, who was better off, could not.
3. How many UKIP voters would (back before the 2008 recession) and still will gladly buy take-aways/go to their local Indian etc restaurant where the only decent chefs come from abroad or similarly buy petrol, food or get a car wash from outlets owned and successfully run by foreign-born people?
I believe that the actual prime reason for the foreigners being wanted isn't money (although that has played a part in some industries, such as construction) is because the indigenous workforce, especially a significant minority of young people think that either work isn't for them (and living solely off benefits [at our expense] for most/all of their lives is), or that such work is 'beneath them' after getting a third rate degree from a mickey mouse college and actually expecting £30k offers to be flooding in, or portly both plus a poor attitude to work which entails them spending hours chatting inanely with 'friends' on Facebook about what they saw of TOWIE last night rather than actually working. Many immigrants are willing to work hard for their wage, but not necessarily loads more hours than you'd expect.
In my line of work in mechanical engineering (Construction), the standard of young people coming through year on year (including well before the recession) has dropped considerably, and yet many still expect huge salaries just because they are 'graduates'. Workmanship quality throughout the industry has also dropped at the same time (worsened by the recession hitting particularly hard) to the extent that I am seriously thinking about leaving the industry for good.
How much of our 'beloved' NHS budget is now spent on:
- Fixing people who cannot stuffing themselves with food or regularly loading themselves up on booze, ciggies or worse. Its not as though they aren't aware of the health problems all of these cause;
- Giving otherwise healthy adults IVF treatment because having a child is a 'right', not a privilege (I will not go into detail about parents with a household income well over £50k who think they're hard up so they deserve [brown's] tax credits and child benefit);
- Staff (not all, but in my view a sizeable minority) who think that turning up to work each day, not themselves being inventive to improve things and expecting others to do so all the time, should expect jobs for life, a state-guaranteed, taxpayer-funded final salary pension and higher-than inflation pay rises, when everyone in the private sector does not.
- Managers (including clinical) and union reps, who fight inter-departmental turf wars and engage in politicking which ruins morale, lowers standards and efficiency, which effects patient outcomes and can cause deaths.
Not one word (by anyone) has been mentioned about this by ANY political party during the election as if daring to criticise the NHS, even if done constructively, is wrong (a bit like those who can't stand debate on Scottish independence [some SNP supporters] or the EU [some UKIP supporters]). Huge amount of money, IMO, is being spent very badly, and yet everyone is currently in a bidding war as to who will spend the most - ridiculous!
5. A lot of voters also did not mind the huge increases in government spending, and especially borrowing, from 2000 - 2008 even though, on paper at least, because the (fake, bought on the nations' credit card) 'good times' were still rolling. They also didn't seem to mind that these vast sums of money were giving very poor value for money.
Part of the problems we face today, including the knock-on effect of large-scale immigration, was exacerbated by the huge rise in the cost of living in that period, but was quietly forgotten by most becuase certain things - consumables such as food, clothing and electronics were still relatively reasonably priced due to cheap foreign labour.
I didn't hear much of anyone (right wingers and UKIP supporters included), and especially Farage on the subject back then (he and they were only banging on about the EU only, not immigrants).
Don't forget that a certain Mr. Milliband (if I recall correctly) proposed and pushed through the Climate Change bill (giving large financial incentives for firms to put up wind turbines, etc anywhere, even if they didn't produce much electricity), did nothing (he apparently could make up his mind) about securing a long-term source of energy (not gas) for the UK (e.g. building new nuclear power stations, etc), all of which lead to HUGE increases in the cost of gas and electricity (even before him, Labour decided on the 'dash for gas' which lead to increases in the wholesale price and severely ran down our North Sea supplies). Bit of a cheek that he's now wanting a price freeze - which I believe will be preceded by a huge hike in prices.
In my view, we cannot take a chance this time by 'voting with our hearts' and so must not allow Labour and their friends to finish this great country off, but all must also play our part personally and assist the politicians we elect by behaving in a better way - I'm not suggesting some puritantical movement, just thinking before we act.
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