The current Avensis has a permanently lit dashboard so that could explain your sightings.
I notice that the majority of illegal front fog light users are Renault drivers so I'd love to know how Renault deal with their switch layout/dashboard lights. No excuse ultimately, but it is a strange statistic of mine!
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Alot of people do not know what the little wheel does by the light switch and have the headlights set up at the highest level.
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If only everyone had headlights correctly aligned! I'm sure that those with one dipped light aimed higher than the other must have set them like that on purpose.
--
L\'escargot.
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There have been some threads of late saying that people now see the car as an appliance. This is what causes all the driving referred to. No-one gives a monkeys, and most people don't have enough competence or indeed sense to drive in the day, let alone at night. 40mph feels fast to a lot of drivers.
I went to Stoke-on-Trent on Sunday with my mum, dad, sister and baby nephew. We went in two cars (babies use loads of space!) and my mum asked if she could follow me as she didn't know where Toys R US was..... so, I thought I'd drive at a sedate pace but not too slow and naively assumed she'd keep up. No chance. She wouldn't overtake on the dual carriegeway, wouldn't go above 55 and accelerates at the rate of an asthmatic ant carrying heavy shopping.
When questioned about her tardiness, she replied: "But I have a baby in the car..... " to which I replied "I have your husband in mine!". This is what we're dealing with. My mum is a kind, saintly soul and I love her dearly. But she can't drive, because she sees it as a means of getting slowly from A to B, or preferably A 1/2.
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I think it depends on the circumstances and kind of road. In certain circumstances it is safer to drive faster at night - because you can see oncoming lights round corners.
On the other hand, take an unlit B road that is easily wide enough for two cars to pass but not for a car and a van unless both pull well in. When you see some lights approaching, and you dip, you cannot tell how wide the vehicle is, nor whether it is straddling the centre or has pulled over. It would be madness to carry on at 60 mph just hoping there will be sufficient gap, so the only sensible thing is to slow until your vision ahead is appropriate for your dipped lights.
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Mildly off thread, but just to mention we put the Superbright 50% Extra bulbs in the Astra the other week as SWMBO is going to be doing a lot of late night driving in the UK over the winter. Think they were Phillips, but Osram make a similar product.
Instant verdict - you do notice a difference on full beam, very much less so on dip, which is where ones lights are set at most of the time. So unless you drive a huge amount on deserted unlit roads at night, maybe not worth the 9 quid a bulb cost.
Regards,
Barchettaman
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If they where H7s you fitted to the Astra then you wont notice much difference.
If you have H4 bulbs though you will notice a lot of difference fitting the upgraded bulbs.
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I've actually invested in some Halfords superbright Xenon bulbs, because they were half price - combined with my local garage correctly aligning the headlights, they've made a hell of a difference...I can actually see where I'm going now. Well worth £7.50 a bulb. And not to be confused with the (illegal) high-powered blue bulbs that just achieve nothing other than sun-tanning everyone else's eyes. Why on Earth do motor-factors (including Halfords) continue to sell these "not for road use" bulbs??
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Yep, they were H7s.
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This has got me thinking- when you see someone at night driving with lights- do you try and let them know?
I will try but am finding more and more people don't seem to able to grasp the message. Followed someone for about 10 minutes in town a couple of years back with no lights on, turned my lights off and on, flashed full beam briefly but to no avail.
With recent fog have also come across those who leave rear fogs on. Quick flash of my front fogs has been enough to remind them. Even had a couple of thankyou waves and smiles for it (I do not do it enough to blind them and try to be as polite as possible).
But watching other drivers- everyone else seems to accept it, and gets ignored.
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On the subject of fogs
It would be easy for a code of practice for vehicle manufacturers (or new regulations) to include foglight switches which are electronically linked to the cars ignition key position. i.e. when you switch the engine off the fog lights reset to 'off' upon restarting the car if you want fogs on you have to press the switch for them.
It would also be easy to configure the foglight switch so that front fogs cannot be switched on without first switching on rear fogs. i.e. both operate from a single switch and the first position (or single press) is rear only, the second position (or double press) is rear & front, then you would have far fewer posers breaking the lighting laws.
I will try to tell others their fogs are on but if they are on the moon I will give up. It must be pretty obvious (to me and all sensible drivers) that if someone flashes you from behind at night, the very first thing you will check is the position of your foglight switch (assuming you know your headlights are already on).
Equally if someone is going faster than you and overtakes you with a flash from a rear foglight, it is obvious they are likely telling you to turn off your rear fogs.
However people who don't know how to drive or are on the moon, could panic if you keep flashing them, hence a good idea not to persist with it.
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The fog light switch in my 206 is set up like that, apart from first click is fronts & second click is rear.
They will turn off when the headlights are switch off manually with the headlamp switch.
Or they all turn off when the ignition is switched off.
If the auto headlights switch the lights on & then I also turn the fog lights on, The lights will stay on until the ignition is switched off.
Its all down to the BSI software & CAN system.
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Nice to see a manufacturer has decided to do this, should be requirement for all IMO.
The only thing wrong is they opted for the switch layout which allows posers to turn on the front fogs only. (which is the same as VW do).
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to include foglight switches which are electronically linked to the cars ignition key position. i.e. when you switch the engine off the fog lights reset to 'off' upon restarting the car if you want fogs on you have to press the switch for them.
Vauxhall have had this set up for several years now.
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These not for road use bulbs have on the packet, not suitable for on road use, for show / off road use only ( or words to that effect )
It seems the disclaimer on the packet lets people get away with selling them, Its the idiots who fit them & then use them on the road that is the problem.
They should be banned really, who other then rally drivers & farmers need 80 / 100 watt bright lights anyway?
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Whoever had my ZZR600 before me had fitted one of these "show use" headlight bulbs. I just assumed it had a fantastic headlight, but it was only when it blew and I looked at the wattage when replacing it that I realised. I replaced it with the correct legal bulb, and the headlight is shocking in comparison, but at least it's legal.
Same principle as "not for road use" exhausts (which are even banned from most tracks these days), blue headlight covers, neons and all the other cheesy tat people bolt on to cars and bikes.
Cheers
DP
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80/100W bulbs are hardly any brighter, I bet you wouldn't be able to tell them from 55/60w. For the size of capsule and filament windings, 60w is about optimum, a higher wattage halogen bulb has a thicker filament, fewer windings, less surface area, and has a lower density of light. The same is not true for lamps in your house because they are a very different design with an non-wound fliament which is large and not constrained in position and size by the requirements for accurate optical positioning and tiny size in a halogent car lamp.
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Greg I don't know hold old you are but as you approach 50 your views may change . Last time I had my eyes tested the Optican said my eyesight was very good, I replied "for my age" he said for any age , however I need glases for reading and close work , I find night driving a pain and subsequently drive more slowly and like many of my age (62) avoid night driving where possible .
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Totally agree - I think anyone who assumes that headlights are in any way at all a substitute for natural daylight is utterly bonkers.
Nobody can see as well in the dark as in light so you should adjust your driving (and expect others to adjust theirs) accordingly - try it on a bicycle, even walking, its easier to trip or crash even at pedestrian speeds with perfect eyesight
I took night driving lessons out in the Fens with no other vehicles for miles, narrow roads with great big dykes on either side, - scared the living daylights (!) out of me - the same roads in daylight, and even with other vehicles are still damn dangerous - just not as dangerous
Stevied - "But she can't drive, because she sees it as a means of getting slowly from A to B, or preferably A 1/2. "
I reckon she sees it as a means of getting 'safely' from A to B and a lot of people associate low speeds with increased safety
As for the people who don't start illuminating at dusk --- I just don't get that - do they think the battery will wear out?
They must be in their cars going "Why's everybody got their bleedin' lights on?"
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Ashok, Your observation has some merit. The problem here is the wiring. The extra current demanded by the 100/80 bulb cause considerable more voltage drop and the voltage at the bulb is uner the design spec for the bulb and it therefore runs at the wrong temerature and thus colour. Cars suitable wired or modified with a control relay right by the lights with a direct feed from the battery do put a lot more light. This mod stops you from melting the wiring which I have seen several times but does not stop you from discolouring the reflective surface in the headlight reflector, depending on the car. Regards Peter
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"Stevied - "But she can't drive, because she sees it as a means of getting slowly from A to B, or preferably A 1/2. "
I reckon she sees it as a means of getting 'safely' from A to B and a lot of people associate low speeds with increased safety".
Hi mini30.... question for you: does her thinking pattern actually make her right? Because I don't think it does. And without being patronising (god help me if I was, she'd deck me), surely a little education is in order? Drive better, more efficiently and you'll get places quicker, cause less hold-ups and frustration, and incur no extra risk? And why is a child's life more precious than anyone else's (hence my "your husband is in my car" comment"? I drive carefully for everybody, not just for those under or over a certain age! There's an element of selfishness: I certainly don't want to die at my tender age, but I don't see my life, or indeed anyone else's as intrinsically more or less valuable than anyone else's. Except chavs of course. : )
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...but I don't see my life, or indeed anyone else's as intrinsically more or less valuable than anyone else's. Except chavs of course. : )
Oh!! I heard that!
You're right tho' I don't drive any different with my daughter in the car than my mum, I don't wanna crash whoever is in the car.
----------------------------------------------
Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
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Hi Stevied - "Hi mini30.... question for you: does her thinking pattern actually make her right?"
You're right - it doesn't make her right - not in all circumstances anyway - I'm no fan of Relativism but I suspect that in 'her' circumstances, i.e. the way that she personally feels about driving, it does make 'her' safer because she clearly wouldn't feel confident going faster so if she had to go faster she would probably increase her liklihood of an accident
I agree - extra training would probably make her a better driver (tho she still might not go any faster!)
It's so subjective - you feel confident going faster (that confidence may make you a better driver - that's subjective tho - confidence is no guarantee of skill - merely a guarantee that one thinks one has the skill) - it may be that you (or anyone else - nothing personal) is actually not a better driver - just a faster/more confident driver
I'm being pedantic - I do know what you mean - but maybe she would still think that 'no matter how good I am - it's how bad the driver I meet is that matters" The risk posed by others doesn't really alter according to how good you are - I'm not advocating doing nothing though - training is always good
All the training and experience won't take the other drivers out of the danger equation although is there not a risk that you might think they are now less of a danger?
Agree on the which is worth more child/adult? point - makes no odds
Although - just a thought - adults usually have a choice about their driver - kids just have to put up with it - doesn't make their lives worth any more though -
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Yes, I do see your points... the only thing I really disagree with is that she IS safer... she FEELS safer but her hesitancy and timidity make for a higher accident risk.
I don't drive that quickly, and i am very critical of my own driving.... no bad thing I suppose. I am petrified of crashes, having had one bad one, and whilst I AM confident, I am also very cautious if that's not a contradiction in terms!!
I have already told my mum I am sending her on a High Performance driving course as a Xmas present!!!
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ha ha - She'll be chuffed! - did you tell her that after she decked you?
Small, busy roundabouts, (the ones where you can see all the exits/entries, with only a raised, painted circle in the middle) are great highlighters of the dangers of both over and under confidence.
There's the one who barely brakes as he approaches and yet somehow always just avoids being swiped by a car coming from the left
Then there's that situation where everybody is paused, waiting for the car on their right to go and then they all go at once
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Greg I don't know hold old you are but as you approach 50 your views may change . Last time I had my eyes tested the Optican said my eyesight was very good, I replied "for my age" he said for any age , however I need glases for reading and close work , I find night driving a pain and subsequently drive more slowly and like many of my age (62) avoid night driving where possible .
I think that most people would find it easier to drive at night if they would only keep their windscreens scrupulously clean and by that I mean its interior surface. I'm glad to say that I am fanatical about this and am amazed when following people, at night or during the day, how appallingly bad their windscreens are with respect to not being crystal clear on the inside surface - often exacerbated by carelessly wiping off any 'mist' with the hand or contaminated cloth etc.
It is not beyond the wit of man (or woman) just to spend some time in cleaning the inside glass to remove all that murk and deposit which seems to form in the interior of cars, either from the ventilation system, plastics or from cigarette smoke if some people persist in that dirty habit.
Additionally, spectacle wearers should also make sure that their specs. are clean.
I'm 69, wear glasses and enjoy night driving but my interior glass surfaces are spotless and helped kept that way by the use of aircon, in less than ideal conditions.
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Driving daytime or night time was never something that I had to think about. Making progress during the night was sometimes easier on country roads due to being able to see the headlights of oncoming cars some distance away.
However, that was then. These days I do find night driving more difficult. I'm only in my 40s but I find the dark bits darker and the oncoming lights more dazzling than I ever used to plus the time for the eyes to "recover" after being dazzled is longer. I don't think it's down to headlamp technology - there were always cars with dodgy light alignment - and I don't find the cars with Xenons too much of a problem.
So as a consequence I do drive more slowly/carefully at night. I'm not at the Magoo stage but rather that than head for a ditch/pedestrian/cyclist etc (country lanes I'm referring to, not the M25)!
PST
PS - why is it that those cars with only one headlight working seem to cause more dazzle? Is it more current to the light making it brighter or do the owners tend to realign it higher rather than replace the blown bulb?
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Same age, same experience. Surprised me, since until the last year or so I had no problem and what I regarded as excellent night vision.
So, Greg, if you find an elderly Accord pootling along the minor roads of Co Durham and Teesside, be gentle!
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So, Greg, if you find an elderly Accord pootling along the minor roads of Co Durham and Teesside, be gentle!
Will do! I'm not THAT bad - but I like to get a move on whether it's light or dark. If you ever see a dark blue Almera upsidedown in a ditch beside a minor road in Teesside or Co Durham, please call me an ambulance ;-)
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I am scrupulous about keeping the whole car clean not just glass and headlights and have the euipment to maintain it so , despite these precautions I find night driving unpleasant especially in the rain
SNIP - Unnecessary quoting of post being replied to removed - see "Responding to posts ( www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=42612 ) for guidance DD
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Oldgit - I'd be very interested to know what you use to keep your interior windscreen clean.
A couple of weeks ago, I couldn't find our 'Sparkle' so used another brand of 'multi surface' polish (it mentioned glass). This polish - which had a remarkable effect on the outer screen (like Rain-X, I believe) - has had a disastrous effect on the interior windscreen. It appears OK to start with, but then smears appear as if by magic. I can't understand it at all - what's more, I just cannot get rid of it!
I'm not sure if I can mention the name of this polish (which I'm sure is fine in general household use) because of the N&S rules - but I could certainly save others the hassle that I've had.
Any recommendations? Cheers Waino
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Quote (Wikipedia)
"The extent to which the pupil dilates also decreases with age. Because of the smaller pupil size, older eyes receive much less light at the retina. In comparison to younger people, it is as though older persons wear medium-density sunglasses in bright light and extremely dark glasses in dim light. Therefore, for any detailed visually guided tasks on which performance varies with illumination, older persons require extra lighting."
Theres no escape :) Come to think of it, I dont use sunglasses anymore.........
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What I have noticed recently is the number of cars with one headlamp bulb out, and drivers leaving well-lit city centre car parks with no lights on at all!
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Not surprising seeing how difficult it is to change bulbs on some new cars these days. Some car manufacturers have a lot to answer for.
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Dilation and contraction of the retina are only part of the process by which the eye adapts to changing light. Using the camera as an analogy the iris is the aperture, ther is a second component which can be equated to film speed. Involving "rods and cones" it takes far longer to become effective and is easily sent back to square one by short intervals of bright light.
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Autoglym car glass polish (from Halfords etc). I too must have scrupulously clean glass inside and out.
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Oldgit - I'd be very interested to know what you use to keep your interior windscreen clean. Any recommendations? Cheers Waino
It's not so much what I use but more the frequency of cleaning.
It varies, but mainly I go over the inside with a wet natural leather perhaps just sufficiently damp and then dry the surface with a lint-free cloth or non-yellow duster (reserved for this purpose only). I never, repeat never, use proprietary cleaners as I have always experienced lovely initial sparkle but this is followed by rapid deterioration due to residues left by most of these products.
My experience is that I have always maintained a regime or schedule from the start, so that the build up of 'murk' has never been severe, or in fact, an issue. It is neglect that is the problem and of course, those dreaded cigs.
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Autoglym as above - no residues. I've used the wrong stuff before and with disastrous results.
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>Oldgit - I'd be very interested to know what you use to keep your interior windscreen clean.
Exterior - as good as any thing else is plain wet newspaper - suspect it would also work on interior just aswell.
But I use a professional window cleaner aerosol can - bought from a glass merchants for about 2.75 (660ml) manufactured by www.bohle.de
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cliffpope,
Which is why when I am on a single track lane at night and a car approaches, if I am the one who pulls in to stop to let the other vehicle go past, I switch my dipped beams off to sidelights only, then the passing car can see where he's going. I have never had this courtesy given to me, I must be the only one who does it.
I think I got the idea when I visited an USAF base with someone, and they did this when they approached the gate house, he told me everyone has to do it (or does it out of courtesy can't remember) so the guard can see who is driving.
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Defo it's more difficult to drive in the dark as you and your peepers get older. Only a problem with unlit roads, though.
Biggest problems:
- Badly set up headlamps that dazzle you from in front - don't these get adjusted at MOTs?
- Ditto but from behind (auto-dimming mirrors are a godsend)
- After-market xenons that are badly adjusted.
I worry about people who drive with no or only sidelights at dusk. Because they can see where they're going they don't worry about other road users seeing them.
I use headlamps in gloomy daylight so a sto be seen, and also pre-dusk when the sun is low. Driving into the sun it's more difficult to see cars coming the other way unless they've got headlights on.
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What sometimes bugs me in the dark is on suburban roads where you often have to weave between parked cars, and give way to cars coming the other way; is when people pull in to stop and wait for someone but leave their dipped beam on. Taxi drivers are good at this. Sometimes you want to know whether they are waiting to let you through or are going to pull out and proceed, if they switched to sidelights it would make it clear what they are doing.
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>is when people pull in to stop and wait for someone
You mean they they are waiting for unloading/loading (not oncoming traffic), then I see your point, yes switch to sidelights would be sensible.
A similar annoyance is when a parked vehicle has Hazards on, nearside hazard is blocked from view by a car parked behind them, so you think they are signalling to come out !!
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My first thoughts were - all cars should be fitted with a bulb failed display like my Mondeo.
This would alert a few motorists to getting their lights fixed. I feel sure it never occurs to most drivers to do a light check. Today I told yet another driver that their centre brake light was the only one working.
This of course leads on to the requirement to be able to easily change at least all front and rear bulbs without resorting to tools other than British Standard sized fingers.
I am at a loss why some undamaged cars have lights way way out of alignment. My guess is that the replacement bulb is incorrectly located.
A few chavs have HIDs fitted without any auto leveling.
The proposal to have MoTs every other year will make things far worse for most of us but better for the " It will be all right by MoT time."
I do wonder about those driving with no lights on. Are they switched off too?
Last week, after dark ,I pulled into an A4 layby to report , on my mobile, that there was debris on the M4.
I was waiting for gap in the traffic to move off . I was about to join the flow when I did my final checks only to have the unlit vehicle parked in front of me do a rapid u turn and zoom off still unlit in the opposite direction.
He did however have his indicator on....Doh!!!
Blue bulbs?? I am a convert for sidelights. I fitted W5W blue bulbs ( they came free with my Osram Silver Stars).
They have a white light and are much brighter than standard 5W side lights.
Not cheap but I will always fit them now as a reasonable back up for a failed dip beam.
I fitted Cibie Halogen units to my 1600e and that was decades ago. I have always fitted the best bulbs available as I consider it a very cheap added safety factor.
It may seem obvious but unless spectacle lenses are fitted in their proper plane they may add to nighttime driving problems.
>>These days I do find night driving more difficult. I'm only in my 40s but
>>I find the dark bits darker and the oncoming lights more dazzling than I ever used to
>>plus the time for the eyes to "recover" after being dazzled is longer. I don't think it's down to headlamp technology -
My optician said that if white Anglo Saxons had not investigated wearing lenses by 40-45 then he would be "worried" as that is the norm. Apparently the normal age for lenses does vary according to your origins.
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Apparently the normal age for lenses does vary according to your origins.
Check out how many of the guides/rangers in the wildlife parks in southern Africa wear specs! And I bet they're not wearing contacts either!
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>This of course leads on to the requirement to be able to easily change at least all front and rear bulbs
>without resorting to tools other than British Standard sized fingers.
I'm with you on that requirement, some cars (Renault?) require some really heavy work to change a bulb something like 120 quid labour to change a flippin bulb! Supposed to last the life of the car these bulbs but do they guarantee it? no! they make you pay for the bulb and the labour when it fails.
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No- not just you I do this to- likewise always briefly dip lights to say thankyou- don't flash (and dazzle). And is amazing that having moved into the area a couple of years back the idea is spreading as see more and more people doing it now.
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I started doing that recently.
And turning to sidelights when waiting at temporary traffic lights when I'm facing the traffic.
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