What licence should I have?

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
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Thu 31 Jan 2013 10:57
What licence should I have? - bhb

I passed my manual car test in 2007, but stupidly got 6 points before my 2 years were up (actually 3 weeks before the 2 years) for 2x speedng offences. I eventually got my licence revoked in august 2010. I retook my test a few months later and passed in my own car which is an automatic. I asked the examiner on the day and spoke to the DVLA on the phone who told me i would get my full entitlement back. I recieved my licence back and carried on driving as normal. Now to my amazement I went for a driving job last week and the person there checked my licence and hs told me i only have a automtic licence, I have checked the licence and this is correct. Now the letter i received on the revoking of my licence clearly states that i had to repass my test for a catergory i already held on my licence (obviously passing in a manual first time round, I was entitled to drive an automatic so i was of of the opinion that i hade fulfilled this). Are the DVLA correct in awarding me a automatic licence? because in my opinion i've passed another test in a catergory on my original licence as they asked me to do? your replies would be appreciated.

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 11:51
What licence should I have? - bathtub tom

>> i had to repass my test for a catergory i already held on my licence

You may have interpreted it incorrectly. What was the EXACT wording of the letter revoking your licence?

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 12:22
What licence should I have? - bhb

The above mentioned cout/fixed penalty office has notified us that you incurred penalty points on the above date. The number of valid penalty points currently shown on your driver record mean that your driving licence will be revoked under the provisions of the Road traffic (new drivers) Act 1995 with effect from the fifth day of this letter.

Please return your driving licence and any test pass certificates in your possession, together with the tar off slip below. A pre-addressed envelpoe is enclosed for your convinience you should note that a revoked licence no longer cover yu to drive. If you continue to drive as a full licence holder while revocation is in force, you will be committing an offence.

You are however entitled to obtain a provisional licence if you wish to continue driving, but you will be required to comply with "learner" conditions attaching to that licence until you pass another driving test (theory and practical) To recover all previously held full entitlements; the retest must be for on of the catergories held prior to revocation. A test for a catagory not previously held would result in a full licence for that catorgory only.

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 12:25
What licence should I have? - bhb

I have put the relevent passage in italics. It says i must take my tes in a catergory already held on my previous licence, surely as i could already drive an automatic under a manual licence i have fulfilled there obligations and should have a full licence back? this is what i was told at the time. thanks chris

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 12:45
What licence should I have? - bathtub tom

Seems like it's time for you to talk to DVLC.

Can you prove what categories you had on your licence prior to it being revoked?

I understand they have been known to 'lose' categories at DVLC during normal licence renewal.

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 13:15
What licence should I have? - bhb

Yes infact I can prove what catergoris I had because i have a photcopy of my original licence on file.

Looks like i'll be giving them a phone later to hear how they try to explain this one?

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 13:21
What licence should I have? - Cris_on_the_gas

To get your manual licence back you will have to take another test in a manual car.

The fact that you have a copy your original entitlement means nothing. You lost this when 6 points were earned in first two years.

The number of times that the DVLA give wrong advice out over the phone is loads but this does not change anything, only letter on DVLA headed paper or genuine email from DVLA would help you.

Good luck anyway, hope you get a result

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 13:49
What licence should I have? - bhb

I do have the letter (on headed paper)stating that I would need to take a test in a catergory that I already held a licence? I have complied with this? My test pass certificate for my 2nd pass also has the manual part ticked (i have a copy of this although i passed in a automatic he ticked manual box i believe thinking i would get a manual licence back).

The Dvla hae comfirmed that I only have an automatic because of the 2nd test being in an automatic car. I believe this to be wrong as the letter states I will get a full entitlement back.

How do i complain? get somebody to look into this? because you cant get any sense out of the people at the dvla on the phone.

Edited by bhb on 31/01/2013 at 13:50

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 13:49
What licence should I have? - skidpan

When you passed you test in an automatic that is the information the examiner would have passed to the DVLA which is why you have an automatic licence only.

The examiner would not know you previously had a manual licence, if he had it would have made no difference since you were taking a new test.

Take a manual test if you want to drive a manual.

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 13:53
What licence should I have? - bhb

The examiner already knew I had previously had a manual licence, because he asked me why I was now taking it in a automatic? to which i explained and showed him the letter, he then ticked the manual part after i passed. I believe at the very least i have been misled by the Dvla and more worrying I have driven manual cars since not knowing i wasnt licenced to do so.

Edited by bhb on 31/01/2013 at 13:55

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 14:12
What licence should I have? - bhb
4 Re-testing.

(1)Subject to subsection (5) and section 5, the Secretary of State may not under Part III of the M1Road Traffic Act 1988 grant a person whose licence has been revoked under section 3(1) a full licence to drive any class of vehicles in relation to which the revoked licence was issued as a full licence unless he satisfies the Secretary of State that within the relevant period he has passed a relevant driving test.

(2)In this section “relevant driving test” means, in relation to a person whose licence has been revoked, any test which—

(a)falls within paragraph (a) or (b) of section 1(2); and

(b)is a test of competence to drive any vehicle included in any class of vehicles in relation to which the revoked licence was issued as a full licence.

(3)If the Secretary of State grants a full licence to a person who is required to pass a relevant driving test in order to be granted that licence, the licence granted must (subject to section 92 and Part IV of the M2Road Traffic Act 1988) be one authorising that person to drive all the classes of vehicles in relation to which the revoked licence was issued as a full licence.

(4)In subsection (1) “the relevant period” means the period beginning—

(a)after the date of the revocation of the licence; and

(b)not more than two years before the date on which the application for the full licence is made.

(5)Subsection (1) does not apply to a person whose licence has been revoked under section 3(1) if, before he passes a relevant driving test, an order is made in relation to him under section 36 of the M3Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (disqualification until test is passed).

A copy of the laws regarding this, I believe I have complied with the part I have outlined?

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 15:02
What licence should I have? - Dwight Van Driver

>>>>b)is a test of competence to drive any vehicle included in any class of vehicles in relation to which the revoked licence was issued as a full licence.<<<<<<

...but a automatic pass only is for that only whereas a manual also covers an automatic.

If the test had been taken in a maual all would we well. It wasn't

You will have to abide what DSLA say and I have a feeling its not going to be good news.

dvd


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Thu 31 Jan 2013 15:08
What licence should I have? - bhb

While i understand what your trying to say, an automatic is a full licence and it is part of the licence I originally held which is what the law says is needed. I may need to seek legal advice and i may get the answer i dont need to hear but its worth asking the question. thanks for your advice anyway.

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 20:35
What licence should I have? - focussed

I wouldn't bother with expensive legal advice.

You originally passed an Group B test in a manual car and got a B manual licence.

Before the two years were up from passing your test you were awarded 6 points for motoring offences.

Under the new driver's Act your full manual licence was revoked, cancelled, it doesn't exist any more, forget it.

You then took and passed a test in a car with an automatic gearbox, granting you a licence to only a drive car with an automatic gearbox.

That's the only licence you have now, if you want a licence to drive a car with a manual gearbox, you have to pass a driving test in a manual gearbox car.

Whatever some numpty at the DVLA told you these are the facts and the law.

Driving examiners work for the Driving Standards Agency (DSA) an entirely different and separate organisation to the DVLA and have nothing to do with the issuing of licences. They merely issue pass certificates for you to send to the DVLA to obtain your licence.

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Thu 31 Jan 2013 20:49
What licence should I have? - martint123

I'm afraid I agree with the previous posts saying you now only have an automatic car licence.

Out of curiosity, what happens if you have both a car and bike licence - do you have to take both again??

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Fri 1 Feb 2013 02:14
What licence should I have? - bhb

If you have a bike and car licence you only have to pass either to get BOTH back, as i said i'll take some legal advice, I originally passed a B licence and when i pased my automatic i passed guess what? yep its also a B licence, Its still a full driving licence....its a grey area in the law and if you dont ask the question you'll never get an answer. Cant believe a supposed helpful forum like this has so many negative posters.

Edited by bhb on 01/02/2013 at 02:15

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Fri 1 Feb 2013 07:59
What licence should I have? - lordwoody

They are not negative, you are just getting answers you don't want to hear.

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Fri 1 Feb 2013 09:31
What licence should I have? - SlidingPillar

I've looked at this thread from the start. I can see how the OP came to the view that a test pass in any previously included group was sufficient to get a new licence with all the previous groups. (Group B auto only being a subgroup of B).

But, my take on the situation was as many here, the new licence would be exactly that, a new licence with any restrictions applicable for the licence group and date of pass.

However, reading the regs that DWD posted, I think you are right to take legal advice. Not sure you'll hear anything different mind you, but I can see both interpretations in the rules. You will however need to find someone who really knows the law on this issue.

It may however be cheaper and simpler just to take a new test.

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