Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - had enough of the nonsense

Hi all, hope somebody out there can help or at least share in my pain!

Sometime in late 2011, my partner used the car registered to me and did not realise but bumped the car next to ours while parking. My parter did not realise this and just stayed parked and went to the cinema. Well, some time after that the insurance notified us that there was a claim for some paint damage. This was the 1st we learned about the "accident". Insurance paid the bill.

Then, we moved. As life got on and medical problems came and stayed and then went, I forgot about changing my address on my license right away. About 5 months pass from the move time to my changing my license.

Then, in November 2012, I get a notice in the mail that I failed to attend court in response to not failing to submit the details of the driver of the offense and the DVLA is revoking my license. I absolutely freak out!

My partner goes to the magistrate's court, explains we never got the letter, blah, blah. I get another court date. On 20/12/12, I go to court with a plea of not guilty, had I got the letter, I would have replied, etc. At court the magistrate and the legal advisor go on to tell me that since my address was not changed timely, I would not have had the notice to declare the driver or attend court, this is all my fault. They go on to tell me that if I enter a guilty plea, I will get 6 points on my license but this will not effect my from driving away from court that day (the magistrates words). I explain to the court that I am a fairly new UK driver, an immigrant on a work visa, etc.

The magistrate reads out the date I for a full UK license and the date I changed the address. I agree that those dates are correct.

I ask the court what does the points system mean? I am unfamiliar with this as I never had any points before. Magistrate says that I will get 6 points for not changing my details. As I have never had points before (the legal advisor chimes in to say that she has a report from DVLA verifiying no other points) and I have an available 12 points. Magistrate along with legal advisor explain that I will only have an available 6 points left and that if I have any further points, I could lose the license.

The court also sweetens the deal by saying it is very unlikely if I maintained my not guilty plea, I would likely lose at trial and the fines/fees will be greater. But, if I plea guilty then and there, I will have to pay £200 and have the points, but otherwise not be effected (aside from declaring to the insurance company). They go on to tell me that the points will be on my license for 3 years from the date of the offense, not date of court. This I thought was not so bad as I only had to tough it out for another year with the points on file.

So, I take the plea of guilty. I told the court something feels wrong about pleaing guilty to something I don't feel guilty of, but I felt I had to based on the information they provided.

The court takes my license, says that they will send it off to DVLA to have points endorsed and instruct me to send my paper license in to endorse as well. DVLA will then send my license back to me.

What to I get in the mail just after New Year? A letter from the DVLA revoking my license again!

This falls under the New drivers act-6 points=revoked license. I explain to DVLA that the magistrate advised me I had 12 points, not 6, he even read out my licensed date and date of address change, therefore he knew I was a new drivier. I even told him I was a new driver. DVLA said the only way I can not have it revoked is to see if the court can change the points.

I then call the court to ask for transcripts of the hearing but they inform they do not record the hearings only take notes. I sent out a letter requesting the notes but I doubt it will be verbatim. And I fear it will be a matter of he said, she said.

I also ask for the case to be heard in appeals that I had to submit in writing as well. But I am not convinced I will be successful getting the court to reopen the care and listen to my plea after I was convinced into a guilty plea. Why would they have to? They got their £200.

This has me is tears. Has anyone out there experienced this? That bad information was given at court and thus having the license revoked? Certainly, if I knew my license would still be revoked, I would have gone to trial and just have taken my chances. But with this, I just feel robbed. It is so unjust that a traffic court magistrate and legal advisor would give such bad information. After all, I am not privy to the law, I actually believed what they told me. Stupid, I guess, but what else can a person do but believe the court?

Have any of you successfully challenged an address change in court? How about an appeal based on the magistrates poor advice?

I feel this is such an injustice, if I had the money, I would pursue this forever. If you have any information that could possibly help, I am sincerely grateful. Thanks.

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - Dwight Van Driver

Looks like after the'bump' the other party reported the matter to the police giving the Reg No of your car. Police then send notice under Section 172 Road Traffic Act 1988 to address of Reg Keeper to name the driver at the time with 28 days to respond. Fail to do so offence and they take action to process to Court by sending summons to address of Reg Keeper where on conviction in addition to fine 6 points automatic on the Licence.

You it appears FAILED to notify DVLA of your change of address or lodge change of address with GPO for re direct mail so the 172 Notice or summons did not reach you.

On learning of the conviction after case dealt with the Mags Clerk re opened the case with a fresh trial. There your mitigation re change of address so no 172 was dismissed as they came to the conclusion, with some correctness, that this was your fault. Finding of Guilt lead to the 6 points on the Licence and fine.

When did you pass the first Driving Test in UK.?

If within 2 years of the conviction for failing to respond to request under S 172 Road Traffic Act 1988 then the 6 points for the conviction for thisoffence resuts in revocation of the Licence by DVLA. A clean Licence before conviction makes no difference. You will have to reapply for a Licence and take the test to re instate your Licence.

At the trial Mags would have had sight of your Drivers Record at DVLA which it would seem pin points your first test pass within the 2years hence revocation.

From what stated, sorry, no beef Chief.

dvd

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - had enough of the nonsense

Thanks for that, but the magistrate and legal clerk DID have my DVLA records. They read out when I got my license (yes it was only about 1.5 years ago, prior to that driving on my American license for 12 months).

It would seem to me, they knew that I was a new driver, I even told them so.

Surely, they must have some liability in this. They completely advised me of false information. Had I known that no matter what, I would have my license revoked, I would have at least tried to appeal to a trial. The only harm would have been higher fines if I was found guilty.

I understand I need to start the licensing process over again. But certainly the court cannot get away with this. This is what I am so upset about, that the court can tell me one thing, convince me everything will be ok yet be totally wrong.

I even told the court that I must drive for work, this is a work leased vehicle, and I have 2 small children. The magistrate told me "you will be able to drive away from court today". This was the only reason I went with the plea.

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - Bromptonaut

Possibly, somebody in court slipped up but to what material effect?

You've admitted here and presumably to the court that:

(a) the accident was not reported to the police as required by UK law;

(b) you failed to notify DVLA of a change of address; and

(c) as a consequence process was not received and you did not name driver etc as required.

I cannot see how, on the basis of what's said in the OP you can plead not guilty to any of those three offences. That in effect was what the magistrate was saying.

The only thing you may have lost is the opportunity to mitigate on grounds of hardship etc you might suffer as consequence of loss of licence.

Legal adivce from a specialist may help but unless your overseas experience removes you from the '6 points and you're out' provision or you can persuade the court to re-open mitigation then I agree with DVD - time to re book your tests.

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - Dwight Van Driver

>>>>> The magistrate told me "you will be able to drive away from court today". This was the only reason I went with the plea.<<<<<<<

...And they were correct.

On conviction Court notifies DVLA of the 6 points. DVLA then send letter to person with the points revoking the Licence. When letter sent revocation takes effect not when one leaves Court.

So it is DVLA and not Mags Court that revoke Licence. Unlike totting when 12 points means instant disqualification.

dvd

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - had enough of the nonsense

Yes, this is true. Thanks for the input.

I will be seeking legal advice. I am sure that I will need to pursue another license via the proper channels but I just would not want the magistrates to continue on giving false information. Plus, it would be nice to try to argue a hardship here as well.

At any rate, I admit I didn't change the license address which caused a whole chain of horrible events. Though, it is all very heavy handed for not changing over the address. I certainly agree that penalty points should be applied, but to revoke it is just a greedy income generator.

Thanks again!

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - had enough of the nonsense

Got more information in the mail today that convinces me this court is not functioning properly. They are asking for £10, saying I failed to pay fines at court. I have a receipt that clearly says "paid in full" on the day of the hearing. There is something seriously wrong with how this court is operating.

I have experienced nothing as frustrating to navigate as this.

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - Dwight Van Driver

Could it be the £10 is a cost for reopening the case? Remember it was you that led them to an incorrect address when all this started

No way would the fine for failing to name driver be that amount?

dvd

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - Bromptonaut

Got more information in the mail today that convinces me this court is not functioning properly. They are asking for £10, saying I failed to pay fines at court. I have a receipt that clearly says "paid in full" on the day of the hearing. There is something seriously wrong with how this court is operating..

Avoid at all costs the theory that there's some sort of 'conspiracy'. I've seen dozens of people with grievances against organisationsgo down that route; it never gets them anywhere.

The Magistrates are mostly lay people working as a bench of three with a legally qualified clerk. A few are District Judges who are solicitors or barristers of seven years standing and selected by open competition.

The fine is an adminstrative issue. The court staff who are civil servants will be able to explain it to you. They however are strictly forbidden from commenting on decisions by the bench still less criticising them. They will explain appeal routes but as you've to all intents pleaded guilty and, other than an opportunity to mitigate, no worse off for the mistake over licence suspension there's little point in folowing that route.

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - Driver Defence

You would have had a defence on the basis it wasn't reasonably practicable to provide the information, because you never received the request. This is in accordance with s172(7)(b) Road Traffic Act 1988. Not changing your address is not a bar to relying on the defence. The Magistrates were incorrect in accepting your guilty plea. It was not their decision whether not changing the address would or would not be a defence. It should have been listed for trial.

The difficulty you have now however is the time that has passed. You can make an application to re-open on the basis of a mistake by the Magistrates or can make an application for leave to appeal. The Court will take into account the length of time it has taken you to contact them so may refuse on those grounds.

Hope this helps.

Edited by BorisTheSpider on 12/04/2013 at 15:39

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - 602

Hi,

Did you have to takea driving test to obtain a UK licence? If so, you are a newly qualified driver. I think the two years starts when you pass your test.

But if you exchanged a USA licence, you are not a newly qualified driver ... at least, I think you might not be.

Did the owner of the damaged car have any witnesses to say it was your car that did the damage? Or who was driving your car. It seems that you got 6 points for failing to notify your change of address, which led to a disqualification for a non-driving offence. I think that means that you will need to retake your driving test. Seems extremely harsh for what is virually an administrative failure.

602

Magistrate gave false info-license revoked?! Help! - 602

Hi again,

I "done a Google" for NEW DRIVER 6 PENALTY POINTS. DVLA seem to have followed the rules for EU qualified licence holders, but I an uncertain about USA qualified drivers, as it ends ....

.... Foreign licences The rules also apply if you exchange a foreign driving licence for a British licence and then pass a further driving test in Great Britain.

That seems ambiguous to me. But question is, did you take a UK driving test? If not, then surely, 6 points is 6 points, not disqualification.

I have been unable to find any reference to Penalty Points for "Failing to Notify Change of Address", though there is a £1,000 fine. Perhaps the court were convicting you for "Failing to Identify the Driver". What offence did they convict you of? It could be important ... but hey, what do I know. As you were not the driver, you should not be convicted for any other offences, as though you were. I suggest that you discuss this with a solicitor ... I think you get half an hour for free. The Citizens Advice Bureau may also be able to advise (free?) but not always convenient to visit their offices. Under UK law, I don't think you can appeal against a conviction if you plead guilty, but I think you can appeal against the severity of the penalty.

Google "INS57P" , print off a hard copy.

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