Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
View Threaded
Wed 13 Jun 2012 13:50
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Peter1935

I paid £9 at Oxford station ticket office for a car parking ticket and the receipt was timed at 9.25am. I travelled to London by train and on return found that I had a Civil Parking Notice from APCOA timed at 10.55am saying I had not paid for my parking. I sent APCOA copies of the receipt and Notice, indicating the disparity in times. They replied by letter saying that I had not paid for my parking place and should send them £50. It seems they have not read my letter and are just trying it on. However, I do not want to fail by default.

Is there any further action you would recommend on my part? I 'phoned British Parking Association and they want me to send them details and have suggested I pay the penalty and then sue APCOA in the small claims court. This seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 13 Jun 2012 14:05
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Bromptonaut

Were you supposed to display the tricket and if so did you do so?

I'd try repeating the message to APCOA adding that you want to invoke whatever appeals process they have. As it's a station car park and you seem to have right on yuor side copying in the trian company (FGW?) might be a good idea.

APCOA, if the continue, will likley send further 'try on' letters increasing the charge and threatening enforcement etc. You can probably ignore them, particularly if any enforcement action on their part is going to end up as egg on their faces. Of course if you are a regualr user of the staion then there is a further risk of being clamped or towed as a 'defaulter'.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 13 Jun 2012 16:24
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Dwight Van Driver
What was the heading on the ticket?

Penalty Charge Notice, or

Parking Charge Notice.

The first has statutory authority, the second civil matter.

dvd
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 13 Jun 2012 22:18
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Peter1935

The heading was Civil Parking Notice.

Thank oyu for your interest.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 13 Jun 2012 22:21
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Peter1935

Thank you for your interest. I actually asked the the person serving me at the ticket office whether I should return to my car and display the receipt. He said no and the person mentoring him (he was under instruction) nodded agreement with him. An alternative way to pay is via one's mobile. I took the dearer option as I thought I might make a mistake if I did it!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 14 Jun 2012 01:35
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - concrete

Hello Peter, firstly you need to check any signs that indicate it is a pay and display car park. If it is then you have not fully adhered to the terms i.e you paid but not displayed. Even so £50 for this minor 'offence' is extortion, especially when told you need not display. Stick to your guns, do not pay them anything. They are very very unlikely to go to court with this and if they did I think they would lose given what you have stated and can prove with your ticket. A fair point made earlier about future use of that facility though. You will need to check if clamping or towing is mentioned as a sanction in case they remember your vehicle as a defaulter. You may need somewhere else to park in future or change your vehicle! I would just ignore them and all their future threats and park elsewhere. Cheers Concrete

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 14 Jun 2012 10:13
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Peter1935

Thank heavens I do not use that car park often and can avoid doing so. I should have said that my car licence plate number was recorded on my receipt, reinforcing my belief, based on the ticket assistant's advice, that the whole system was self-contained and payment of parking charge was automatically relayed to the park proprietor.

Again, thank you for your help and interest.

Peter

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 14 Jun 2012 10:53
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Bromptonaut

Whether your reg was recorded was another question on my mind.

A system like that operates at London Midland's stations for those paying by text or web. Seems to work well although others say that patrolling frequency drops rapidly the further you are from the parking company's Watford base.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 14 Jun 2012 15:51
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Dwight Van Driver

>>>>>>The heading was Civil Parking Notice.<<<<<<

....... so its a civil contract and as such there has been ample posts about whether paying or not. Normally for one of these one does not enter into correspondence as they have to reclaim monies off the driver, the details they do not have nor do they have any authority to ask for this from Reg Keeper. If they know the driver then they have the information to take to County Court. Because of the costs involved in this not always done. IN this case correspondence has taken place which may have given them the necessary information.

Suggested that it be considered to send another letter with photocopy that fee has been paid and therefore the contract has been complied with and any further action will be rigourously fought. Here the matter ends.

I would ignore any appeals prodecure as that is not independent.

dvd

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 15 Jun 2012 20:07
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - daveyjp
Sit back, relax, have a beer and do nothing more. Ignore any further letters. Clamping in this instance could be dealt with by simply using a pair of bolt cutters.

Edited by daveyjp on 15/06/2012 at 20:09

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 18 Jun 2012 19:40
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Peter1935
I talked to the local Trading Standards people and they were helpful, as were everybody on this website, for which I thank you all.

I sent all details of my receipt, Civil Parking Notice and the response from APCOA to the British Parking Association who responded by saying that they could not act on my behalf but that if APCOA were in breech of their regulations (it is the private parking companies trade body) they would tell them. Saturday I received an unsigned letter on APCOA headed paper telling me they had made a mistake and did not mean to charge me. Whether or not it was because BPA had said something, I just don't know.

Thus all has come to the right conclusion but I ma not sure of the means. However, I found the whole business unsettling and unpleasant and might have paid what they asked just to get them off my back. Some people would, I believe. Not a very nice way to do business!

Thank you to all who responded in this section: it was helpful and comforting.

Peter
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 18 Jun 2012 22:15
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Bromptonaut

Suspect there was (a) a failure to transfer data to parking contractor (b) a failure of common sense when you queuried it.

The BPA are trying to re-project themselves as, in the post Protection of Freedoms world, they're likley to have responsibilty for commissioning an appeals service.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 21 Jun 2012 11:56
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - hookster66
i parked at goole station operated hru northern rail. and did as most do and ignored the request to pay.

and it went to magistrates court and i ended up with £600 in costs on top of the £100 penalty and victim b.s.

so my advice is to pay once at a railway station,pay whatever they ask!!
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 21 Jun 2012 13:45
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Armitage Shanks {p}

You may have been hard done by! A "Request to Pay" usually a Parking Charge Notice is unenforceable at the moment. A Penalty Charge Notice is legally enforceable and is ignored at one's peril. Please may we have some more detail of what notice it was that you got and how it finished up in court and £600 costs seems steep or was some of that your own costs?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 21 Jun 2012 15:07
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Bromptonaut

If it went to the Mags Ct then I guess either (a) the car park is operated under railway by-laws or (b) it's operated by a Council who've yet to adopt Civil Enforcement.

As AS says more detail needed. Emphasises need to be very careful about when advice to ignore is appropriate.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 21 Jun 2012 15:33
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Dwight Van Driver
As I have previously pointed out one has to be careful when parking at or near a Railway Station as offence may be

against a No Waiting Restriction - Penalty Charge Notice ,or
Private Contract breach - Parking Charge Notice, or
Railway By Law Breach - Mags Court if not paid. No provision for FPN.
see 14 here
tinyurl.com/bubueoe

dvd

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 2 Jul 2012 12:30
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - hookster66

as you say...the correspondance i received from northern rail was all couched in words like 'might' and 'may' and 'should pay immediately.'..nothing hard in the wording like must ands legally binding...so it goes to mags and they award £100 for failure to pay and £600 costs to northern rail.

is it appealable ? just so harsh the costs...totally out of all possible reflection of the time and actual admin.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 2 Jul 2012 15:37
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Dwight Van Driver
From their site on the Web it looks like APCOA enforce civil parking contracts but mention involved in on streeet parking, so not sure. If it had been a statutory authority then I would presume it should have stated so.
A FPN would have had information on what happens if not paid i.e. Mags Court.

Can only say you consider having a word with local authority for area to see who they employ to enforce their waiting restrictions and just to confirm have a word with Railway Police at Station or Stationmaster.

If confirmed private then there will be no need to enter into any further dealings with firm and let them take action against the driver, whose details I presume they do not have nor is there any obvligation on the Reg keeper to disclose to them.

If push did come to shove, which I suspect is unlikely, then you have the evidence in the paid ticket to fight your corner to a good conclusion.

dvd
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 5 Jul 2012 10:34
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - hookster66

spoke to the mags court. its a non-cps case and was heard in my absence.214 or 219 section 20 of the transport act blah blah failure to pay.

how come the regd keeper gets hammered,but not whoever was driving????

my name is on the v5, the car is co vehicle but with me mostly driving except when im away.

any help from all you gurus ???

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Thu 5 Jul 2012 16:05
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Dwight Van Driver
Section 219 Transport Act 2000 gives power to BR to make By Law (STATUTORY POWER) covering various matters which they have done.

Section 14 (3) makes the requirement for payment for parking of vehicles and offence if not paid.

Section 14(4) makes, in England and Wales, the OWNER of the vehicle culpable
for any offence as above.

...so as Reg Keeper you are the one.

Transport Act 2004 de-criminalised certain parking offences taking them away from Mags Courts and dealt with under the Penalty Charge Scheme but BR By Law is not listed so as far as I can see so contraventions go to Mags Court if not paid.

Person(s) authorised by BR to look after parking cannot therefore issue Penalty Charge Notice so it appears they issue a Parking Charge Notice as you state with the information on it of statutory authority.

It would appear that BR ( or person authorised by them )not CPS, have taken Court Action in issuing a summons where you have been fined.

As such you should have had a summons about this but if the Mags were satisfied one was served then they can go ahead in your absence. However if the notification of the fine was the first indication you had of Mags Court proceedings, if within 21 days of this, you can apply to Mags Court Office to have the case set aside. A new Court date will be fixed so that you can have your say should you so desire.

dvd





Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 18 Jul 2012 13:58
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - hookster66

spoken to the court, its the vehicle owner that takes the hit. end of story. i have to pay. no rehearing or set aside will be entered into...the letter theyve sent and the articles it relates to in law states owner is liable. great ewh. please dear readers, beware !!..

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 21 Jul 2012 10:06
Parking on an APCOA Railway carpark - Brit_in_Germany

hookster, you did say earlier that it was you who parked at the station!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Looking for a garage you can trust? Honest John's Good Garage Guide has thousands of reader recommended garages, plus how-to guides and tips on servicing.

The Good Garage Guide