Having recently become the owner of a VW Diesel, and living in Yorkshire, I have been filling up with Rix Biodiesel which is 95% ordinary diesel and 5% other oil.
Is anyone aware of any evidence regarding the long term benefits or disadvantages in using this?
I have also found a site selling 100% reprocessed waste vegetable oil but have been told that this will not be generally available until the summer. Is anyone aware of any other sources in Northern England?
BobM
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Hi brambob
I've been using 100% biodiesel for at least 16k of the 18.5k my Seat Leon has done, as well as over 9k in my Clio dci, and I'm about to start using it in a 1996 5-Series.
The 5% part of the Rix stuff should be biodiesel, ie derived/refined from vegetable oil, as opposed to unrefined veggie oil blended in with the derv. I'm not suggesting it's anything other than kosher, just letting you know that "other oil" could mean a number of things. Don't know if calling something that contains 95% derv by the name biodiesel is strictly accurate (Trades Descriptions Act?), but the 5% content should have been "transesterified" - this means the vegetable oil should have been reacted (not just mixed) with methanol or ethanol using a catalyst (typically s**ium hydroxide) to remove the waxes and lacquers, reducing the viscosity of the veggie oil and ensuring that your injectors don't get coked up over time.
That said, such a high derv content means that you could probably run 5% unconverted vegetable oil with no ill effects, let alone biodiesel which is much more refined.
There's been a lot of misinformation about biodiesel recently, since some guys were caught making their own in Wales and not declaring/paying the duty, and also since Jeremy Clarkson did an item on using vegetable oil which was a complete load of twaddle. For the record, mixing veggie oil with white spirits does not produce biodiesel and will not make the veggie oil thin enough to run in an unmodified engine.
If you have a look at www.biofuels.fsnet.co.uk/biobiz.htm , you should be able to see the supplier nearest to you.
As regards benefits/disadvantages, even a small amount of biodiesel is very good for your engine due to its higher lubricity, meaning reduced wear and tear. It also means your engine run more smoothly and improves refinement. I've found that my 110 bhp TDi gives me a little more mpg on pure biodiesel than on derv - say 58-59 mpg as opposed to 53-54. Power seems to be unchanged, or possible slightly better, but I've certainly noticed no significant difference. Your car will be a little less polluting, as 5% of the fuel is from a renewable source. That 5% will have reduced levels of particulate matter, CO2 and carbon monoxide. Your exhaust fumes will be less unpleasant.
Disadvantages? In reality, none if you're using genuine biodiesel in a modern diesel engine. Rotary fuel pumps are less likely to be compatible, but your car doesn't have that kind. Poorly produced biodiesel which has not been adequately "washed" after reaction, or veggie oil masquerading as biodiesel, may also clog your fuel filters or coke up your injectors over time. Not fatal at all, but an annoyance. Cars which have done a lot of miles on derv will have a lot of gunk at the bottom of the fuel tank - using a high percentage biodiesel blend will clean this out, only it will get as far as your fuel filter and clog it. This is easily remedied by simply changing the filters as you would at a service, but may be inconvenient. Never spill biodiesel on your paintwork or tarmac driveway, and clean it off immediately if you do.
Many manufacturers only warranty the use of 5% biodiesel - which isn't a problem for you since your car is warrantied for 100%, and you're only using 5%. It's worth bearing in mind that most diesel sold at the pump in France contains 5% biodiesel, and the rest contains about 3%. This means that any French-made car has to be compatible with at least a 5% blend.
You can find out more about biodiesel at the biodiesel forum biodiesel.infopop.net and check out the research carried out by the University of Iowa into using biodiesel at www.uidaho.edu/bae/biodiesel
VW, Seat, Audi and Skoda diesel engines are warrantied for use with 100% biodiesel and have been for six or seven years. Older engines may need fuel lines replaced before using 100% biodiesel so as to prevent corrosion, although the lines (made of natural rubber) will most likely be so vulcanised as to be impervious.
I've just re-read how long this post is. Oh dear, I've done it again ...
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Hi Andy
Brilliant post - thanks.
The main problem around here is with supply of the 100% Biodiesel. When I contacted the supplier nearest to me I was told that there would be nothing available until next summer. However they did say that they thought that the market could expand rapidly next year. Do you get your own supplies or do you have it delivered?
The other interesting point is about Rix, the company supplying the 5% blend up here. Someone indicated that they had been taken over by BP; if so I wonder what the impact may be on the future of Biodiesel products from that source?
BobM
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Is there a tax issue here. The latest prank is for work mates to call up the Customs confidential line and report a diesel car registration for using red diesel. The driver then gets stopped by police using their new number plate recognition cars, pulled over and has his fuel examined. Some grief!
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Interesting: I don't think they've been taken over:
They've certainly sold some of their prime retail sites to BP, but still have some of their own, badged as Rix, in Hull city. It is these latter that have the posters outside saying 'Biodiesel available here' Their website www.rixpetroleum.co.uk says that they supply 200 independents, and own 24 sites themselves. I also give quite a lot of detail on their own brand.
Quote
Rory Clarke, Managing Director of Rix BioDiesel Ltd, says: -
"We are delighted to be ahead of our proposed schedule for the national roll-out of biodiesel. We started with 3 forecourt sites in East Yorkshire during August; we now have 12 forecourts across Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the Midlands all retailing the fuel under the brand name of Bio Blend 5. By the end of November we will have more than 30 forecourt sites retailing biodiesel and 61 by the end of the year which will include 19 sites in Scotland."
"All of the biodiesel that we produce is manufactured by recycling used cooking oil and recovered vegetable oils. This means that not only is it a renewable fuel which does not contribute to climate change and global warming but it also extends our planet?s finite fossil fuel resources and gives us a diesel fuel with reduced emissions and improved performance."
"It is our aim to offer motorists all of the benefits of biodiesel at no extra cost."
For further details contact Paul Burman at Corporate Communications on
01482 580072 or paulb@corpcom.co.uk.
End Quote
I have no connection with the company!
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Andy,
you seem to be well informed re; biodiesel.
I've got a BMW 530d and was wondering whether you were aware of any problems with the engine using biodiesel. I presume that the modern diesel engines are getting more and more sophisticated. Does this mean that they are getting more tempremental when non "pure" fuel is used? Do you know what BMW recommend as a max amount of biodiesel?
Ta.
Charlie
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Sorry for the delay in replying - had my Christmas do last night!
Just to let you know, I would describe myself as an enthusiastic amateur, not a professional - what I don't know about engines could fill a library. Anything that follows should be interpreted as my own personal opinion only.
Ok, that's out of the way! Before I go on, there are two things to remember - biodiesel and vegetable oil are not the same thing. Biodiesel is vegetable oil (or sometimes tallow, e.g. chicken fat) which has been refined and physically altered, as described previously. Some people prefer to run unrefined vegetable oil as it is the cleanest, least polluting fuel currently available. However, biodiesel is almost as clean and is much easier to use, as no alteration to the engine is necessary.
My understanding is that indirect injection diesel engines can cope with a heavier/more viscous fuel than direct injection. This is relevant to people who want to run unrefined, pure vegetable oil through their cars. An engine conversion is usually necessary to do this, as the average temperature in our climate is too low for vegetable oil to be used in an unadapted engine - it's too viscous and will gel in cool temperatures, leading to clogged fuel lines and injectors. So as indirect injection engines tend to be older, vegoil conversions tend to be done on older cars - which are in any case well beyond the time limit for any manufacturer warranty.
Properly produced biodiesel should meet the CEN viscosity spec for used oil of 3.5 - 5.0. The DIN 51606 standard (for biodiesel made from fresh vegetable oil) for viscosity is also 3.5 - 5.0. Biodiesel which is produced to this standard should not cause any difficulties in a modern diesel engine. I have used it in temperatures down to minus 10. That said, do not just assume it is alright to put it in your car, especially if it is still within the warranty period - more about that later. VAG has taken the lead by warranting its diesel engines for use with pure fuel of this standard, i.e. pure biodiesel rather than a mere 5% blend. This has been part of their warranty since about 1995.
If you're only considering using a small proportion of biodiesel blended with derv, such as Rix are producing, then you really have nothing to worry about - it won't be present in high enough proportion to present even a theoretical risk to your engine.
Modern diesel engines are built to cope with using ultra low sulphur diesel. ULSD corrodes natural rubber, which is what fuel lines used to be made of. So in the early nineties, car manufacturers starting using synthetic rubber (viton) instead of natural rubber, in order to ensure their engines would cope with the introduction of ULSD. Biodiesel also corrodes natural rubber, which means that modern diesel engines with viton lines are well suited to its use. If you want to run 100% biodiesel in an older car, you might have to change the fuel lines, which is not particularly expensive - probably less than 40 quid. However, the rubber fuel lines in older cars are usually well vulcanised by the amount of derv which has passed through them, so biodiesel may not affect them in any case. That's a "suck it and see" situation!
I honestly cannot remember what the position of BMW is regarding biodiesel and the warranty for their fuel systems. It's probably 5%, but that will be down to super-cautiousness on their part, rather than any real reason to not use 100% biodiesel. If it helps, I'm confident enough to have just bought a used 525 TD which I plan to fill with 100% biodiesel when I get my next supply in, so I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I also plan to do the same when I find a used Rover 75 for the right price, and that car has a BMW engine.
I buy my biodiesel from a supplier in Belfast - I live about an hour away, so I usually fill the tank and fill the boot as well, with jerrycans. I always get a receipt to show VAT paid, although I've never been dipped.
But ... for practicality's sake, I have not told my Seat dealer that I use biodiesel - not because I'm worried it will damage my engine or invalidate my warranty, but simply because I do not want the hassle of having to convince my dealer of the fact that it's ok to use. My thinking is that if anything ever did go wrong with the engine, they might use "Oh it's because of biodiesel" as an excuse to try and get out of fixing it, giving me a fight I know I would eventually win - I just don't want to have to fight in the first place. For example, earlier this year my car had a fault with the programming of the electronic fuel injector which led to loss of power. The fault was diagnosed and the unit was replaced under warranty, as it should have been, without any fuss. I reckon that if I'd said "I'm using biodiesel and I've experienced a loss of power", I could have had a lot of arguing to endure before they agreed to even run the diagnostic check before eventually arriving at the same outcome. This is not a problem of using biodiesel, just of shoddy service.
The only other note of caution is to clarify which kind of fuel pump your engine has. I've heard that rotary pumps are more prone to failure when using pure biodiesel or pure veggie oil. I think Ford was still using these in Transit vans until comparitively recently. As far as I know, this is not an issue for modern BMWs, Mercs, VAGs, etc.
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I know that this is an old, old, thread but I am trying to decide whether or not to start using biodiesel as I have just moved to Bristol and would finally have a supplier close by. I have a 2005 Citroen Berlingo 1.9 with only about 43mil on the clock so, albeit old, a fine van and I wouldn't want to jeopardize its good performance. I have read a bit about this and some articles say that diesel engines built between 1999 and 2004 should not be a problem but later ones could have problems in the fuel injection system. What if I tank a bit with normal diesel and top it up at the biodiesel pump? Would that help? Should I run some additives on normal diesel first for a few tanks, before I start using the mix? I am a girl, don't know almost anything about engines and wouldn't want to screw things up although the drive to get a bit greener is very strong! Many thanks!!
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I managed to destroy a perfectly good engine using biodiesel. However I was stupid and did not check for any suitable documentation for the fuel in question. If your local supplier has got a good reputation, has suitable documentation to show his fuel complies with various standards and can introduce you to other satisfied customers, I might be tempted to try a few litres mixed with regular fuel if the price saving warrantied it.
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So it boils down to the quality of the biodiesel. I was thinking about trying Bristol Bio Fuel out and at only, say, 1:1 biodiesel and regular diesel as my van is a 2005! Has anyone heard anything about their diesel? They advertise as having all the certificates but it does not harm to ask around....Thanks
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Following a conversation with my aunt yesterday I discovered that Global Commodities of Thetford are selling their biodiesel fuel called DriveECO through Broadland garages, their website is :
www.globeco.co.uk/default.htm
Not quite close enough to me in Essex but I am up that way now and again so will take the chance to fill up my soon to arrive Skoda when I am.
Matthew Kelly
No, not that one.
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