My father taught me to drive and, as he was army trained, insisted that I press the release button when applying the handbrake to avoid clicking the ratchet. Having mentioned this in the office this afternoon, opinion is divided between those who like me were taught to have a bit of sympathy with the machinery and those of the view that ratchets were made to click - that's their raison d'etre.
The question doesn't arise with the XMs of course, so Rob G and other such discerning people are excused from this poll.
Even pressing the button when applying, SWMBO has trouble releasing handbrakes I've put on and it seems other ladies in the office have similar troubles with their own partners.
So, avoiding any puns on rodent excrement, what is the considered view of backroomers?
Terry
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I do (and was taught by driving instructor) to press the button and save wearing out the ratchet.
If you wear the ratchet out so you can make the handbrake move without pressing the button I think it is a MOT failure.
Why doesn't this apply to XM's?
Ben
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Benito
XMs = foot operated parking brake you then lock on with a hand lever, similar in some Mercs I think.
Terry
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and those of the view that ratchets were made to click - that's their raison d'etre.
So what's the raison d'etre of the button then?
The ratchet was not made to click. It was made to hold the lever in a certain position. It clicks when two bits of metal rub past each other. When two bits of metal do that, they wear away.
And unless all your female colleagues are exceptionally weak and feeble, it sounds like their significant others are applying the handbrack too hard, which must be straining something unnecessarily.
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GJD
Not weak and feeble, SWMBO has the start of arthritis in her wrist and thumb joints, hence difficult for her to release firmly applied brake. I can't speak for female colleagues as I haven't given them all a thorough check-up - yet:o)
Raison d'etre of the button is to release the ratchet to release brake (in the opinion of the clickers). We non-clickers believe it's to do this both on the way up and on the way down!
Terry
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Mentioned this in another thread.
Taught always to press the button, and its a "habit" difficult to get out of.
This is shown up by the instruction on handbrake application in my Mundano.
1. Press footbrake firmly.
2. Apply handbrake, do NOT press button.
my observations
By not doing 1 the parking brake is not that secure.
There isn't a ratchet as such at least in the early part of the lever movement. Rather like the modified Xantia quadrants where the first few teeth were removed after the "runaway" problem.
Pressing the button anyway, due to habit and not thinking (grrrr!)doesn't seem to give any problems, so far touch wood. still left in gear though.
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On a driving test you would pick up a minor fault for not using the button, on an advanced test or one of the tests to become an instructor you would fail for it.
What does SWMBO mean??
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On a driving test you would pick up a minor fault for not using the button, on an advanced test or one of the tests to become an instructor you would fail for it.
Thats fair enough,but when the vehicle instructions say what they do as in my post above? I thought advanced driving was all about being flexible not slavishly following rules.
Sorry if that comes across a bit sharp don't mean it like that.
What does SWMBO mean??
She Who Must Be Obeyed
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Darn it FiF, you got in before me with the acronyms.
You could always claim the Mundano got a minor fault on the advanced being-a-good-enough-car test and give it back.
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On a driving test you would pick up a minor fault for not using the button, on an advanced test or one of the tests to become an instructor you would fail for it.
You don't fail advanced / instructor tests for one minor fault do you?
What does SWMBO mean??
www.net-comber.com/acronyms.html#S
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SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed.
I have the same problem with weaker members of the family, I applied the handbrake in my nana's Yaris (pressing the button to save wearing the ratchet) and she couldn't release it. But she doesn't have a lot of upper body strength so apparently when she parks it on her very steep drive, she doesn;t always bother with the handbrake properly and just leaves it in gear! :O
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My instructor (@ RAF St Athan many years ago)
insisted (inanimate objects and body parts were mentioned) that we always pressed in the button on applying the parking break.
I always have done since....
John R
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WHOOPS!
that should have been "parking brake..."
John R
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I always depress the button as I was taught to do.
I was never given a better reason than wear & tear on the ratchet itself though.
It never seemed like a good reason, especially when you can't avoid the ratchet on cars such as Mercs with the pull-out brakes.
I did learn that my driving instructor only got crabby when he was questioned though.
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I was taught not to use the ratchet,but I have not thought of pulling up handbrake so tight that swmbo cannot take it off!!!
Thanks guys
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If you want to make the handbrake difficult to get off then depress the brake pedal firmly while applying the handbrake as it seems to either pressurise the system/just physically move the caliliper closer to the disc so the handbrake goes on more firmly. I found this out when I had a dodgy handbrake that wouldn't hold the car unless I did this. I did once apply it so firmly that it took several minutes of faffing around to take it off and that was only by using two hands and leaning heavily on the handbrake. It may only apply to old fiats though!
teabelly
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I always teach pupils to depress the button before applying the parking brake, one because examiners expect it on test, and two because the clicking gets on my nerves.
But to be fair, 90% of the population click against the ratchet, and I have yet to hear of one wearing out. Has anybody?
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"I have yet to hear of one wearing out. Has anybody?"
No.......I was going to ask that, too.
"What does SWMBO mean??"
It's an impediment that prevents fingers from transferring thoughts from brain to keys.
Little is known of this disability, but it is curable with sympathetic specialist care.
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:-0 !!! That is to Paul if it turns up later in the thread!
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":-0 !!! That is to Paul if it turns up later in the thread!"
HF.........just realised my last post (where's me bugle?) could be misinterpreted. No offence intended.
I was addressing the scourge of acronyms in general, not that
blasted "She With Moderate Body Odour" in particular.........
Bark.............
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No offence taken, and no implication that offence had been taken intended!
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Yep!
My father had a Hillman Minx where the ratchet went, hence it was a serious offensive for me not to depress the button when he taught me to drive. I still do it and tut to myself when I hear others that do not.
More recently, my wife's previous Uno had a habit of slipping a notch if the handbrake was knocked. Car rolled off the driveway into the road once - she always leaves it in gear now.
Chris M
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Tom, I don't suppose they wear to the point of failure but I think anyone with any mechanical sympathy at all will depress the button when pulling on the handbrake.
I notice you call it a parking brake. Is this the official driving school term? Back in days of old when I learned to drive, I was taught that they served two purposes, i.e. for parking and for emergency braking. This was before cars had dual-circuit footbrake systems though.
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Long time since I've heard the term 'emergency brake', Dizzy. That used to be my dad's term for the device.
I suspect that clicking the ratchet is sometimes a bit of a macho boy racer thing. "Look at me, I've got a motor", a bit like using fogs at night.
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This is a topical debate for me, as SHM not BO say's her driving instructor taught her to depress the button when pulling the handbrake up, but I was never taught this in the three driving lessons I had, so I'm an ignoramus.
That I am a qualified and practising design engineer is irrelavent, when I tell her the ratchet is not made of cheese and is easily capable of taking any amount of abuse. The cable is not going to stretch because you use the ratchet so click away and liberate some noise.
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Im not a button pusher myself, my father always gives me hell for it when i drive his car, i know he's right but when you get in the habbit of doing it a certian way it's hard to change.
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I had a Fiat coupe which had presumably been subjected to the yank it on brigade.It's "Handbrake" ratchet was worn to the point of not holding at all.A bit of judicious weld and filing restored it to health.
I think that that tortuous sound of clicking ratchet shows up a driver to be somehow mechanically unsympathtic.
I apply the handbrake with button depressed without even thinking about it and of course in the old days with "fly off" handbrakes it was the only thing to do.
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What I meant to say was with a Fly Off handbrake there was no ratchet effect until you pressed the button in after pulling up the handbrake.
Clear as mud !
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Apolagies, on my previous reply I did not explain myself fully, something to do with "in a hurry"!
No you can not fail the instructors advanced test (part 2) with 1 minor, you can only have 6 minors and what I was implying but probably not making myself clear is if you done it all the way through the test then yes my guess is you would fail.
As for advanced tests, you probably could fail some for it, there are many different advanced tests, the ones I know are IAM, ROSPA, CARDINGTON, DIAMOND. IAM would possibly let it go, the others I would doubt (cannot say for sure).
When I sat my Police Carrier test (many moons ago) I was stripped off for doing it, but did not fail..... And I only done it twice on an hours test.
As far as I know, yes it is cos of wear and tear, make what you want out of that!
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"When I sat my Police Carrier test"
What the heck is that? Do they get tired?
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Carrier = Van with seats = People carrier = Pig van = Riot van = Friday night vehicle... etc etc
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"Carrier = etc,etc........"
Thanks, clarky. Now I understand. But, afore I go, one last query.....
"I was stripped off for doing it,"
Isn't that a little harsh.................?
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That was bold, AD. Stand your ground. The tide is turning..............
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I think 'mechanical sympathy' is the main reason. On my MB (foot operated parking brake, hand pull release) the same question would be 'do you let the brake up gently with your foot or let it thump back to the stop?'
PB.
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I had a 1953 Rover 75 as a student with a hand brake lever like an upright walking stick on the right hand side:-). The ratchet was under the vehicle and protected from road filth by a metal cover.
Well I was a student and it cost £45 and the cover had rotted through and the ratchet was worn and .. so on. Never had any problems after that as I used to depress the button putting on and off brakes after that experience:-).
Personally I hate the noise.. so always depress them. Only noise worse is when disk pads are so worn, the warning strip is exposed and makes a grinding noise when you apply the brakes.
I always let the MB foot brake thump to the floor on my 260E - horrible design even although car was auto. Reminding me of driving US hire cars ..
madf
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While I can understand the point about not wearing the ratchet out, surely there is a case for at least occasionally putting the handbrake on without pushing the button? The number of clicks can be very useful to tell you how well adjusted the handbrake is, as well as giving you some reassurance that it is on firmly.
I'd never thought about it before and always just pulled it on with accompanying clicks. Must think about it more in future...
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Yes, pulling the handbrake to count number of clicks is OK, but you don't do that every day or even every month....
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Yes, pulling the handbrake to count number of clicks is OK, but you don't do that every day or even every month....
You could argue you should, else how do you remember what it used to be like? Was it 4 clicks or 5? Or maybe 6. And if you usually only park on flat ground, you might end up with a faulty handbrake the time you need to stop on a hill...
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PB,
When I have driven a Mercedes I just let my ankle stop the pedal as it flies up. Not intentionally of course.
Mention of the Rover 75 reminded me that I have in fact come across a failed ratchet on a handbrake. This was on my father-in-law's 1955 Rover 75 and repairing it was a pig of a job. That car also had a very odd gearlever which you had to sort of twist as you changed gear. Father-in-law, an ex lorry driver, managed to snap off the lever, not once but twice!
Then there was the freewheel device - a superb bit of kit! Just turn the wheel to engage it (i.e. disengage the drive on over-run) and you could change up through the gears without using the clutch. OK so long as you didn't forget that there was no engine braking when the freewheel was 'in'.
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Rally cars don't have rachets on the handbrake IIRC.
Makes it far easier for handbrake turns.
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Reminiscing ...
In the early 1960s my father had a Ford Consul. The handbrake was a T-shaped piece sticking out of the dashboard. To set the handbrake, you pulled the lever straight out over the ratchet (no button to press). To release, you twisted it anti-clockwise, pushed it back into the dashboard, and then twisted it clockwise back into it's normal position.
The ratchet wore such that the handbrake would hold in position OK, but it was a b***** to release. You had to twist, push, untwist, twist, push , untwist over and over again, and eventually you could get the lever back all the way in. He never tried to fix it - oh those wonderful pre-MOT days!
Ever since, the sound of a handbrake clicking over a ratchet has had an effect on me like squeaky chalk on a blackboard.
Ian
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He never tried to fix it - oh those wonderful pre-MOT days!>>
Ian, MoT testing started in October 1960 so I would say it was more a case of your Dad's MoT tester turning a blind eye.
Do you remember the column gearchange on those Consuls? It was excellent, far better than those on Morris Oxfords which commonly lost the ability to engage third and reverse. Many's the time I had to find a hill so that the car could roll back into a side turning to change direction.
I used to drive various Consul, Oxford, Vauxhall Velox and Standard Vanguard cars as 'private hire' cars at the weekend. The Consuls gave us the most trouble but I still enjoyed driving them. I passed my driving test nine weeks after my 17th birthday and was driving private hire cars just four weeks later. Didn't tell the customers about my inexperience though!
One of the Consuls had been bought as a write-off and we thought we had made such a good job of rebuilding it that no-one would ever know. One weekend I was using it as a wedding car and picked up the 'groom. As we drove along, he asked me what the registration number was. When I told him, he said: "I thought I recognised the inside, this car used to be mine and I wrote it off"!
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Ian,
Like you, and it seems the majority here, I am a ratchet click hater, and always have been, so when I changed from my 'sixteener' three-wheeler with conventional handbrake to a Morris Oxford with bench front seat, I quickly learned to hold in the bar on the umbrella-handle brake. Then I graduated to the pull-and-twist kind. Well, it didn't take me long to realise that as the twist was effectively the equivalent to the button, the trick was to twist before you pulled; hey presto, silent parking on Consuls and Victors, yea!
Dizzy,
How long it took me to manage a smooth (double declutched) change from top to 3rd in my Morris Oxford! I never lost a gear, but was that a baulky change or what! Also, do you remember that the MO change was back to front, i.e. push down for 4th?
The Consul/Zephyr was good, although the ratios were wrong for good acceleration; the 4 speed Minx wasn't bad at all, Saab had the right ratios, but smooth shifting it wasn't.
No, it was the French who had the pinnacle of steering column gearchange. They hung on to them long after they had been abandoned in the UK, and they were developed during the 1970s so you *really* needed to try the low spec DS and the sporty Renault 16.
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>>Morris Oxford change was back to front
I should have said it was push down for 1st and 2nd on the MO !
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Rally cars do have rachet handbrakes ( well some of them! )
They are called 'fly off' handbrakes and with a simple modification the pressing of the button actually activates the rachet, at all other times the handbrake has free movement. Hydraulic master cylinders are linked in so that the rear wheels can easily be locked to perform handbrake turns. Modern rally cars have developed this to the extent that the handbrake is now upright and extended for ease and rapidity of use.
The problem with that is that we all have what is called 'muscle memory' so that when we perform motor tasks regularly our muscles react automaticly. So if you are a 'button presser' you have to get out of the habit!!!!!!
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Yes indeed Full Chat, and isn't it embarrassing.
200 yds hairpin right!
brake, gear, handbrake turn......chug chug chug
as you pull away having pressed the button in one the fly off DOH!
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When applying the handbrake I always press the button.
As others have said, it is called mechanical sympathy.
Similarly, I don't slam doors, bonnets, or tailgates, or 'ride' the clutch more than is necessary.
It's just basic good driving practice.
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Has anyone ever heard of the handbrake rachet wearing out? I have never come accross this. Er indoor's 19 year old polo's handbrake has always been made to click, its just a simple ratchet! and the ratchet teeth look like new.
It should be noted that rear disk handbrakes need to be put on firmly and the car left in gear. As the rear disk cools and contracts it is very common for the handbrake to release itself if only applied gently.
Handbrakes using drums are OK as when the drum cools it will actually tighten gainst shoes.
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>>> Has anyone ever heard of the handbrake rachet wearing out?
Nope but the button on my first car (MkIII Escort) disintegrated, Thankfully the ratchet mechanism was exposed so all I did was reach down and apply it or release it by hand.
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"Has anyone ever heard of the handbrake rachet wearing out?"
Look back up this thread, BJ............
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