***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 4 *****
As it says snow related stuff in here please. Saves going over old ground.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 11/01/2010 at 19:18
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Now that people in many places are becoming used to the cold conditions, it does not seem to be such a priority to salt the roads to such an extent that they're completely free of solid water.
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Salt? Grit? What's that. They've not been near the the hill I live on. The whole street has been stranded. There's only one way in and out and that's at the top of the hill. Walk across a very big golf course to get essentials.
Wife is a community nurse and is supposed to start work at 6.30am tomorrow. My base is 30 miles away. I'm back monday (following further snow falls), not sure how I'm going to get there!! (Note to council..please return the two grit bins you removed for no reason)
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Heard an interesting story from my colleague who was taking to ?a gritter driver? in the pub last night.
Apparently he has been driving to and fro on the frequently closed trans Pennine Woodhead Pass, BUT only succeeded in actually gritting once. The vehicle has got an entirely automatic system, with no possibility of manual intervention, that only permits gritting at 30mph.Great (not) if the traffic is stopping or moving slowly due to snow. If 100% true, this is a scandal.
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that only permits gritting at 30mph
If its true I can see why they would have such a system, because if you gritted at say 10mph or 20mph, you would be using too much grit on the same area of road, and they would have to keep control on reserves, so as not to run out. Unless they can vary the application rate....
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Unless they can vary the application rate....
Would that not be a basic design requirement if the designer had any sense?
IMO 30mph would be to fast to drive on some ungritted roads, for instance on hills... maybe thats why most the hills in High Wycombe have gone untreated again??
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I did a scary spin this morning, ended up on the other kerb facing the way I'd just come.. on an busy A road, fortunately clear of traffic. Turned back round and there was an Audi parked with no offside. Came back the same way and there was a car stuffed up the back of a parked one. Son had done the same trip earlier and he and the car in front had both done tail-outs at the same place !
Thank you so very much, Manchester City Council, for not gritting !
Ted
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I've been running a roadwatch thread (including getting up at 6am and going out to physical survey the roads......well the highways agency wont!!!!) on our local website to warn of dangers in the village i have called the local council today to report a number of really dangerous areas (our villge is one way in one way out so theres no alternative routes) only to be told side roads are being left untreated no roadside grit bins will be filled and the quarry that supplies the grit has been closed till further notice because of the bad weather (talk about irony) and they are down to 2 days supply so all major routes may go untreated as well.
and everyone said the film 'day after tommorrow ' was a fairytale we're doomed i tells ya doooooooooomed
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According to News 24 -Government and LAs have agreed to reduce the consumption of salt by 25% to preserve dwindling stocks - oh that will help won't it.
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According to News 24 -Government and LAs have agreed to reduce the consumption of salt
i read it i see it but my brain wont process it....its going in my head as government and LA's HAVE TO REDUCE by 25% to cover up the fact they were unprepared
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A lot of moaning in the media about unprepared councils not having enough rock salt but in all honesty what do you expect them to do. Most had at least enough for a full gritting program of 6 days which most people would have said was an adequate reserve. They could have bought more but its rate payers money they are using and how many people would have endorsed a huge increase in expenditure on rock salt "just in case" rather than spend the money on education or police funding.
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you could argue that more money on eduction and police is a waste if the roads are so bad that schools close and the police cant get somewhere if they are needed because of icy conditions.
in broader terms you could argue winter is at least 3 months long so the stocks of around 6-7 days is only equivilant to 5% of the possible need over that period surely an increase to 10% wouldnt break the bank and its needed but is unobtainble because of the weather surely thats worse then having stock left over at the end of the winter
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You could indeed argue all those thing with hindsight. In different circumstances you could be complaining why there had to be cut in the education or police budget when the council had tied up thousands of pounds in maintaining a rocks salt reserve enough to last 30 days when we had the mildest winter on record.
Some one has to make decisions. Budgets aren't unlimited. Sometimes, in hindsight, the wrong decision is made
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>you could be complaining why there had to be cut in the education or police budget when the
>council had tied up thousands of pounds in maintaining a rocks salt reserve enough to last
>30 days
Get real for Glub's sake! That hogwash won't work any more.
Rock salt costs £20/ton. As an example, maybe if Hants County Council didn't spend more than £141,000 each year on bottled water for staff we'd have enough grit to keep the income generating side of UK plc running?
Kevin...
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Norfolk used nearly 40,000 tons last year and I expect it will use more this year. Cost is nearer £25 per ton than 20. That's somewhere near £1m. That's a considerable sum of money.
I am not aware of the cost of bottled water consumption in Norfolk CC but I think they drink mostly tea:-)
Edited by CGNorwich on 08/01/2010 at 23:35
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i should have added that in my previous post when i said unprepared thats not just in relation to cost.
its not really a cost problem the stocks are THERE when they should be HERE its more logistical then financial, there is a procedure in place to deal with cold snaps it just doesnt work in its present form.
say a council has 3000 tonnes in stock there will be another 3000 tonnes earmarked for that council but its stored elsewhere usually at the mine.
when a council says they are 'low on salt' dont equate that with 'there is no salt' because there usually is they just cant get their hands on it.
i wish the media would report things a bit clearer rather then the way they do yes theres a problem but its not a shortage its distribution.
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Surely at some point we, as the public, have to accept that Mother Nature can and has stopped us in our tracks? I'm not convinced it's a rational expectation that all roads are kept open and gritted all of the time. I'm not sure on what basis we've come to expect that. Councils seem to have tried hard but they're not miracle workers. It's easy to blame them, (the British disease), for something that really, is just the natural variance of weather.
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If you look on your council website there should be gritter routes with road priorities 1 to 4. If you are not on the list or are low priority you can forget being gritted, the emergency vehicle routes, and bus routes will be done first and if salt is scarce that is all that will be done. If you are not prepared to pay taxes for millions of pounds worth of snow clearing equipment which will probably only be used once every decade or three, tough, a couple of weeks snow is not the end of the world. Blame the Met Office for forecasting a barbecue winter.
Edited by Old Navy on 08/01/2010 at 19:50
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They could have bought more
Its been said many times before, but if people knew how to drive on compacted snow, using a gentle touch instead of revving and wheel spinning everywhere, they would get places more quickly and safely, without needing tonnes of salt.
However, having said that, it is down to individual councils how well they manage their roads. I went through Brentwood in Essex, and it seems like none of the main roads were gritted. This place has many hills with traffic lights situated at the top with the result that people have to stop, then try to do a hill start on roads that are ungritted. A bit of a nightmare. Maybe they should be concentrating on the hilly areas before anything else, if thats possible.
On the other hand, the council have done sterling service in my area of Essex, so far.
Edited by corax on 08/01/2010 at 19:36
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On the other hand the council have done sterling service in my area of Essex so far.
All A and B roads in West Wales are fine too, even the mountain roads in Pembrokeshire, but stray off them and you'll end up in trouble, as I know to my cost. Took a regular short-cut to a farm today, which looked to have been gritted; it was, for a while. Carried on over compacted snow (been driving on that all week and no probs so far) only to find a sheet of ice on the next hill; result lorry stuck and we'll try again tomorrow. Even a large 4WD Massey-Ferguson on the front didn't budge the lorry, in fact if anything it made things worse because his tyres spun and turned the compacted snow in front of me into glass!
Going back at 9 in the morning with a local contractor's 360 Hymac excavator, big boy's toys!
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Supposed it had to happen - salt rustling. Local council here in Lugo, NW Spain (yes, it's snowing here as well) are investigating disappearance of 28 tonnes of salt from one of their roadside storage silos. Some enterprising people no doubt offering to treat your private road somewhere.
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had to happen - salt rustling.
There was an old man of Siberia
Whose existence could hardly be drearier
Until snow-laden skies
Caused the salt price to rise;
Now he's rich and not nice, but superior.
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Amazing that they decide to bail out!
uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/6739391/17517757
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I believe you're looking for this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTCJAplgJv4
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thats better, i would of stayed in the car....safety cell and all that! I like how the couple on the balcany had the video camera set up ready
Edited by zookeeper on 08/01/2010 at 18:19
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Lygonos - thanks for posting the youtube link - not sure what happened to the link I posted.
Could one of the mods edit the link in the original post? I cant find the option to edit posts?
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Gritter gone past the end of my road bang on time. You can nearly set your clock by them.
I listened to some Duffer moaning on the radio the other day about how the gardeners and grass cutting staff should get out and shovel some snow as the had nothing to do at this time of year. As if they are sat about waiting for spring.
Its a very difficult time for the councils and the population in general. Its just one of those things. I seriously think they are doing their best in some difficult conditions. Well done East Yorkshire Council.
Should we take some personal responsibility and have a spare set of rims with decent winter tyres? 'But we don't get much snow'. So maybe the councils work on that theory when ordering salt/grit stocks. The weather is unpredictable.
Now what is going to happen when it all melts? :-(
Edited by Fullchat on 08/01/2010 at 22:07
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I suppose we should all be grateful for global warming, without it, it might have been minus 30 last night !
Ted
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Hehe that is one way of looking at it. Do you know if Brantingham Road is open yet? Police had shut it all off before probably because of an accident.
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Germany is running out of grit and is on the point of being rationed.
The Germans are a: well organised and b: used to winters.
This has caught them on the hop as well.
You guys can have every road gritted anywhere in the country all the time if you want. The cost would be astronomical and you would all squeak if your share of the bill came your way.
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Sorry, Ratto, don't use it very often and haven't been up there today.
Just finished lunch and noticed water spraying up the kitchen window...outside tap burst it's pipe. Can only turn this one off in the road...blow that !.....crimped the pipe with a mole to lessen the flow, cut the pipe below the leak and put a compression stop end on...sorted. Plenty of old towels all over it.
Always have some plumbing bits here if you're ever stuck.
Ted
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Lots of people in our area have had this problem, my grandma's neighbour has had the same problem. We seem to be ok here but I guess they can go anytime. It will be a good test of my plumbing skills!
Its all push fit compression joints but they are all internal, we only have one incoming pipe and that is is deep underground.
I have a few stoppers and stuff knocking around but if I do get stuck thanks :)
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Now what is going to happen when it all melts? :-(
Floods.
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Floods. yes
i said the same thing tonight
and big ones i reckon
also car insurance renewals are going to skyrocket in april once insurers have done their sums
some might even go bust
i just wish that east anglian set of wasters would pay me for from 3 months ago when next doors gate ruined my car
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...Floods...
Doubt it - doesn't a bucket full of melted snow make only a teaspoon of water?
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Lets see: Local Council budgets say £250k a year for salt.
There is a mild winter and no salt is used.
Council A uses its budget to buy more salt in summer - and gets a discount as no-one buys in summer - and builds up its stock in preparation for a bad winter. If it has another mild winter, it does nothing.
Council B spends nothing in the mild winter.
That I suggest is what has happened..
Plus Highways Agency is to hold 13 days stock whilst Council 6 days..
You have to wonder about the mentality of a Government plan like that: yes you can drive from Manchester to London but once you get ther.. you are stuck..
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...Floods... Doubt it - doesn't a bucket full of melted snow make only a teaspoon of water?
yes but there is a lot of teaspoons of water laying around, and its all going somewhere in a short period of time when the thaw comes.
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Flooding
Isn't the problem after such a prolonged cold spell that the ground will still be frozen deep and thawing water can't seep through.
Isn't it nice to have proper seasons back though, all thanks to global warming.;)
Edited by gordonbennet on 09/01/2010 at 09:57
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I was thinking we'll be running out of water soon, as presumeably little is flowing into reservoirs?
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I was thinking we'll be running out of water soon ........
If we desalinated sea water we could use the water to drink etc and the salt to put on the roads, and it would help to curb sea levels from rising as a result of the polar icecaps melting because of global warming!
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Far too logical, Lescargot... probably wrong type of salt as well!
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..... doesn't a bucket full of melted snow make only a teaspoon of water?
According to Wikipedia .............
"New snow commonly has a density of around 8% of water. This means that 33 centimeters (13 in) of snow melts down to 2.5 centimeters (1 in) of water."
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...New snow commonly has a density of around 8% of water...
At the risk of trying to be Number Cruncher in disguise, I reckon a 10litre (two gallon) bucket of snow would make 800ml of water.
Which is about a pint-and-a-half.
It's certainly more than I thought.
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Now what is going to happen when it all melts? :-(
Who cares about that, what we all want to know is what happenned to that car when it went out of shot!!!!
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.. what happenned to that car when it went out of shot!!!!
The Fiesta which people bailed out of?
Nothing very dramatic, it came to rest against a garden wall:
gvaonline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/icypaig...g
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Nothing very dramatic it came to rest against a garden wall:
I read somewhere else that it clouted at least one car before stopping at the wall...the driver was injured by his own car bashing him apparently (assuming it was a him).
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the driver was injured by his own car bashing him apparently
From one of the youtube comments:
"allegedly" the driver broke his arm and a few ribs after being hit by the run away car
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I read somewhere else that it clouted at least one car before stopping at the wall...
I'm sure that would be right - Looking at the picture it can't possibly have got between the other car parked further up without hitting one or more of them.
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Nothing very dramatic it came to rest against a garden wall:
Looks like it's only a bit further down the hill, which is lucky - it appeared to be gathering speed quite quickly at the end of the video clip.
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>>> Nothing very dramatic, it came to rest against a garden wall: <<<
The rear window is broken on the car ... The estate road looked like block paving, my neighbour had his drive done in the Summer - it's like an ice rink!
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I agree fullchat. East Yorks council have done a great job. Yeah maybe we should take some responsibility. Bit expensive mind buying the tyres and wheels. Then again we don't really get a lot of the white stuff do we. I was only wondering what is going to happen when it melts. There are some big tidal predictions this year.
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The daughter's friend came the other day. she had an American girl with her, exchange student or something. I asked what she thought of this weather. Shrugged here shoulders and said'' we get this all the time used to it''.
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Has anyone else noticed that cars with very low-profile tyres seem to be having particular trouble on packed snow and ice?
Edited by Sofa Spud on 09/01/2010 at 15:10
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Hats off to Rossendale Council where everyone including the Chief Exec stopped normal duties and went out to clear the bins, going up roads where the bin lorries couldn't get to.
Rochdale Council have said in statement: "We propose to debate this idea at our June Council meeting and hope to have an emergency winter service up and running in July for a full 4 four week period.*"
* This may not have happened but I wouldn't put it past them.
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Has anyone else noticed that cars with very low-profile tyres seem to be having particular trouble on packed snow and ice?
I wouldn't say my Vectra-C has very low profile tyres (225/45/17's) but they're struggling more than previous cars that I've driven on snow with. It's probably the extra width thats the issue.
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There's less than two inches of snow here on the Lincolnshire coast and the forecast for the next twentyfour hours is light rain. I'm expecting that by tomorrow morning all the snow will have gone and I'll be able to wash my car.
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...I'll be able to wash my car...
Thinking about doing mine.
There's still plenty of snow around, but I can hear a lot of dripping in the backyard, so it's thawing steadily.
Don't think the car's ever been so filthy - not had a proper wash since Christmas, and I've been out nearly every day.
I wouldn't worry for a few more days, but it's booked in for a service this week and I do not like to present it dirty.
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Damn, knew there had to be a downside to the thaw!
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boy the BBC weather has this wrong.
They are currently saying for my area Min -1 max +1, light snow and strong wind.
Its now +3, raining and no wind.
And note I dont live too far away from the weather centre at bracknel. They cant even tell what happening on their own roof.
Edited by Altea Ego on 10/01/2010 at 09:58
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Anyone live near Stansted ? I have to go there tomorrow v-early via M6 / A14 / M11. Just wondering what to expect snow-wise ?
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Come on Humph, have you not got a crystal ball?!
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Golden has been mentioned....
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Thawing in Northampton as well.
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Golden has been mentioned....
Some say none
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Anyone live near Stansted ? I have to go there tomorrow v-early via M6 / A14 / M11. Just wondering what to expect snow-wise ?
Try this link to Metcheck. You will probably have tho change the location/postcode as it set to my home area.
tinyurl.com/yzrj3s6
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Thanks drbe ! rgds "GB" ....sorry.....HB.... ;-)
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boy the BBC weather has this wrong.
Too right AE. Yesterday I spent a couple of hours in sub-zero temperatures removing ice from the path and pavement. It was getting very hazardous and several more days of sub-zero temperatures were forecast along with 8 inches of snow. The ice was like concrete, needed to be chipped away, and it was often difficult to tell where the ice ended and the pavement started.
Well the snow never arrived and today it is thawing. I've just been out to finish the bits which defeated me yesterday only to find they could be brushed away!
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I agree with AE. In my area the temp was +3 degrees from yesterday evening up til 00:10 on a trip from Esher to Croydon and back. Temp is currently +1 and slight thaw is continuing. We still have packed snow /ice on the side roads but have escaped the dire conditions else where in the country.
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but have escaped the dire conditions else where in the country.
>>
The intestinal fortitude of the good folk of Surrey has helped immeasurably.
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boy the BBC weather has this wrong.
I ignore BBC forecasts and rely on Met Office forecasts online. www.metoffice.gov.uk/
Edited by L'escargot on 10/01/2010 at 10:52
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While you lot have been jawing about the weather, some of us have been out in it, grafting.
I now have one suitably clean CC3 - about the dirtiest thing was the driver's rubber mat.
Even did a quick wipe over under the bonnet, in preparation for the service.
Think it might be a Sunday carvery lunch in the Dog and Duck - £5.95 including seconds, well seconds of vegetables only, but I'm not complaining at that money.
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your a slave to that car ifi
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I'm certainly a wage slave to get the money to buy the blinkin' thing.
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And note I dont live too far away from the weather centre at bracknel. They cant even tell what happening on their own roof.
Maybe the door has frozen up, or health and safety have advised them not to go out on it in case someone slips.
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The met office said last night the conditions of last week were to last at least another 10 days in the SE. As everyone has said, here in the South of Heathrow, the thaw is on. Weather forcast said last night we were in for heavy snow. When they predict, it never happens. When they don't it does. Drink up and brewery and all that !
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The Met Offcie forecasts for Staff Moorlands have been consistently wrong - too cold or too warm for 2 weeks now.
I blame Global Warming..
Forecast -5C, Actual -17C - Last Wed night.
Forecast -4C - Actual +1C Sunday Morning
as examples.
And we chuck them the odd £100million and a 25% rise for their Director.
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Yup, thawing here too (Hants/Surrey border). Two minor snow flurries all day, but temperature now above freezing and bits of road/pavement now visible for the first time since Wednesday.
Just been for a walk up in the woods with the dog and the ground is still frozen solid. I reckon it will be a good few days before it disappears completely, even with consistent positive figure temperatures.
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Been just above freezing all day in Melton Mowbray, light snow flurries but not settling. I have come across this site which offers 2 hr forecasts for a 24 hour period and daily forecasts for days 1 to 15 in any UK location. www.accuweather.com. Might be worth a look at this for you Humph B?
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 10/01/2010 at 16:53
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Thanks AS. Looks OK now though I think. What will be will be.....
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Bracknell Weather centre has been in Exeter for years!
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no wonder they dont know what happening up here
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Seems a lot better now, I Am able to travel about a bit with my wellies. Been to town last night, been to tonight this afternoon. Still some silippy parts but its much better than it is. It is also melting off my car too.
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I Am able to travel about a bit with my wellies. Been to town last night been to tonight this afternoon. >>
Blimey Rattle, that's some pair of wellies. Where can I get them?
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...been to tonight this afternoon...
Wow Rattle! You've built a time machine whilst you've been recovering!!!
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Still v cold in the hills North Of Mcr. Got two neighbours with mini diggers to clear our track, took them over 3 hours. Now trying to stay on top of the snow blowing back in from the fields (insert your own Knut joke here...)
Some flurries and sky was looking heavy as it got dark.
Been able to take the au pair's Yaris out today to show him how drive on snow and ice. I don't think an alternative career as a driving instructor awaits me!
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Well, it's well above zero here and was raining thinly last time I went outside. All the snow has gone from the cars and parking bays in the main road. There are just a few bits of impacted old ice full of mud and dogpoo close to the railigs here and there, and they will be gone by tomorrow unless there's a relapse. Feels like four or five celsius out there, a bit parky but not brass monkey weather any more. Fingers crossed.... insh'Allah...
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There are just a few bits of impacted old ice full of mud and dogpoo close to the railigs >>
Ah, the perils of post snow dog-poo.
People don't clear up after their dogs in the snow, they just kick some snow over the top to hide the evidence. As the stuff melts we are left with perfectly preservered piles of frozen canine turd to plant our size nines in. It's frozen state means you don't really know you've collected it until you get home and deposit the stuff all over the carpet.
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That was an advantage of clearing up after the dog this time of year - slip the hand inside a plastic bag and pick it up, one warm hand!
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That is a revolting thought
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How many?
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>>Bracknell Weather centre has been in Exeter for years!
How many?
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>>Bracknell Weather centre has been in Exeter for years!>> >> How many?>>
answer here:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/3108078.stm
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The BBC weather website has been forecasting about five degrees celsius for Sunday for my area since the middle of the week.
Dunno where they get their info from, but it's proved accurate this time.
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Just over freezing here and clouding over, went out in the FocuST this morning, the side roads and lanes are very bad, just pottering along though no real retardation from the brakes, I could easily have run up the back of a Seat with a tow bar, could have made a mess.
Some people have no idea, the Berlingo driver who floored it out of a side turning with loads of wheel spin and kangarooed up the road when it hit the ice free stuff and gripped.
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He he!
Twas a she though.
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So, it looks like we are starting to come out of this snowy period.
So in the "big backroom" house, over the last few weeks, we have heard all the evidence, all the real life stories, all the experiences.
Now, knowing what you do about:
- winter tyres
- weather predictions and their accuracy
- grit levels and council's abilities to clear roads and paths
- your work commitments
- your own car's performance in snow,
- FWD vs RWD
- 2WD vs 4WD
- and everything else that has been discussed,
fast forward to October 2010, will you do anything different in preparation for next winter?
Edited by BobbyG on 11/01/2010 at 12:55
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fast forward to October 2010 will you do anything different in preparation for next winter?
buy a sledge :-)
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Go back to Los Christianos and never come back!
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>>So, it looks like we are starting to come out of this snowy period.>>
Heavy snow is forecast for here tomorrow.
EDIT: spellin'
Edited by cheddar on 11/01/2010 at 13:21
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My next set of tyres will be allweather.
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