***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 44 *****
In accordance with HJ's request (in Vol 30) Please continue discussion in here about Top Gear. HJ's policy of deletion applies. So no treehugging !
Vol 42 is HERE
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 29/12/2009 at 01:41
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Has anybody considered that the car sent to sea was
1) Rescued and scrapped
2) Just a shell with no engine etc in it?
However I suppose the car was wrecked anyway.
Its only tike any other sort of motorsport too, e.g stock car racing they destroy them it is for entertainment.
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Yes. It was obviously faked. Legal requirement on the BBC as part of their Risk Assessment to do an Environmental Impact Assessment as well dumping a car like that with all it's fluids would have been illegal. Leaving it there would have been as well.
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I'm sorry, but what other sensible response is there to the people who, week after week, watch it and then complain about it?
Not true - if you've been following the TG threads you'll have noticed I've given a couple of good TG reviews recently - and I stress the word reviews here - for that's what they are; a perfectly legitimate thing to do.
A 'complaint' would be made to the BBC & I haven't done that.
OTOH, what you/Snakey & other TG-right-or-wrong-istas are doing is complaining - if you don't like my reviews, why read them & respond? Why raise your blood pressure etc... Simple really.
(I don't mean that of course, I'm merely posing the same argument as you & hoping it makes the point..)
And no, I don't raise my blood pressure over things like this - it's simply a bit of dialectic 'sport' to me - although I'm sincere in my thoughts.
The Twingo piece in TG could have been made much more effective - as other posters have pointed out. Why not, for example, get the correspondent (A Mr Needham form NI?) to come & talk to JC & get some interaction going, or give Mr Needham the reviewing opportunity then donate the car to a local charity? That would have been (nicely) off the wall.
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If past BBC performance is any evidence there's a possibility that Mr Needham doesn't exist. Probably TG trying to get on the Mrs Trelis bandwagon !
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In response to:
it's fallen from that pinicle, and still falling fast. The format is tired, and they are running out of ideas.
from the older thread, I'd have to agree. And the BBC and the TG team probably do to. But it still makes all of them including the BBC a lot of money so they will continue for as long as there is an audience I guess.
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>>Probably TG trying to get on the Mrs Trelis bandwagon !
Ah yes, Mrs Trellis beloved correspondent of the other Humph - can't remember if she was billed as from Wrexham or N.Wales - probably related to Samantha though.
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It varied from Wrexham, Prestatyn and North Wales. Anyway JC and his antics have attracted me over to Northern Ireland in the Spring. Biking of course. So it wasn't all bad !
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I must say, when the Mr Needham bit came up, I guessed almost instantly that 'Mr Needham' represented all the bores who want TG to dull down and was not real - hence the tongue in cheek roadtest.
Certainly looks like budget cuts have made their presence felt. Its a shame they dont have some sort of suggestion box for viewers to get some fresh ideas in there.
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Certainly looks like budget cuts have made their presence felt. Its a shame they dont have some sort of suggestion box for viewers to get some fresh ideas in there.
And here it is: Suggestions for top gear articles here please!
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I quite liked the short bit where they were showing the clever screen in the Range Rover, and perhaps a very short Top Gear does Tomorrow's World slot would work well.
I know academic articles can be a bit dry, but, if it's kept really short, there are some amazing experiments and test rigs which are used for developing cars and car parts which could form interesting short articles; here's a few-
- drop test rigs which test composite crashworthiness - a spectacular bang!
- brake squeal rigs, where the disc is illuminated by lasers to form holographic images - awful noise plus beautiful images
- laser velocimetry rigs for verifying CFD predictions of airflow into engines - again beautiful images, and lots of LASERRRR jokes
- "hyge" simulations where car bodies are shot backwards by of a massive air powered gun
Of course, I've a vested interest - I would really like the public to see more of where their cars and other goods come from - that they are developed systematically by engineers and scientists, and don't spring directly from a stylist's felt tip fully formed.
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Gosh, I just fell asleep. I think I much rather have the late Dibnah presenting engineering than JC. Maybe May on his own.
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In fairness May manages to present his own programmes and they can be entertaining and informative.
Maybe the Gadget Show model might be the ideal - they have their jolly japes and stunts but still manage to keep it interesting and entertaining.
Edited by Pugugly on 07/12/2009 at 18:39
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I agree PU on the Gadget Show idea... and Jon Bentley used to edit and produce TG didn't he... it was Jon that brought in Jeremy Clarkson to Top Gear in this timeframe. He also launched Fifth Gear as producer before becoming one of its presenters.
Edited by rtj70 on 07/12/2009 at 19:38
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I get the impression that they are struggling to fill an hour... perhaps a shorter programme?
BTW I have to admit that it did feature motoring from start to finish unlike some recent episodes... We had airport vehicles driving sideways, then 4x4s driving sideways, then a star in a car driving sideways, then a Twingo driving sideways.... Mmmm (said in a sideways sort of way, of course!).... ;-)
Edited by b308 on 07/12/2009 at 20:40
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I was impressed with whoever it was driving the Twingo round the docks, puts the local youths to shame :-)
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Yes - that was well done.
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Format's getting tired now and they're running out of ideas. The whole series so far has been disappointing. It used to be essential viewing, now I'm starting to forget it's on at all. The aircraft vehicle racing wasn't even that entertaining and Hammond did seem to be struggling to keep the interest level up. Nice to see JC dismissing those big Jeep things as pointless and I really thought the Twingo test was fun until for some pathetic Clarkson reason, he decided to wreck a perfectly good car. He didn't need to do that and it detracted from an otherwise fun article. Maybe his ego's getting a little too large but the "I can destroy anything" approach is a little dated and wearing a bit thin. JC is no fool and writes brilliantly in the press. But I think he overdid that one and needs a bit of a re-think.
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>>..a bit of a re-think.>>
OK. So come up with a rethink and you, or anyone else for that matter, detail some original ideas for a replacement Top Gear programme.
It has to have at least the same global impact and financial rewards as the recent series.
Edited by Stuartli on 07/12/2009 at 23:27
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In a public forum. I don't think so :-) Could be worth some money.
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They need to show us more specific stuff on cars in the studio, like the little segment where they were looking at all the fancy stuff on Range Rovers. That stuff is interesting and useful for potential buyers. So now they just need more of that kind of thing - it can be done and still be entertaining.
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It's not just potential buyers - I'd never buy a Rangie for a number if reasons - but I love to see the kit.
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I'd never buy a Rangie for a number of reasons
Neither would I, but i'd have a RR Sport any day of the week, but it would have to have thinnish wheels, tow hitch, dog guard etc....no running boards and absolutely no drug dealer glass. I understand they have the adjustable air suspension so if on the odd occasion in its' life you did need a bit more ground clearance you could lift it up a bit.
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Just plain scared of the build quality - always admired them from afar.
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Just plain scared of the build quality - always admired them from afar.
fair do's...if you paid over £40K for something that turned out a dog you'd weep wouldn't you
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We had a Y plate Disco TD5 as an ex-demo, a fine car that could do great things - it proved reliable but blew up it's gearbox after we sold it - by the skin of our teeth that one.
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They are not called "off roaders" for nothing.
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Format's getting tired now and they're running out of ideas. I really thought the Twingo test was fun until for some pathetic Clarkson reason he decided to wreck a perfectly good car.
I could not agree with your points more, the this series they wrecked a perfectly good Dacia that would have found a great car for a family in that country.
I've enjoyed some parts of the series but I think this really should be the last and perhaps they just do the occasional special at Christmas or Easter.
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Whilst it makes a lot of money for the BBC (and therefore the production team - it's not made by the BBC) it will continue.
The only way it will change is when viewing figures decrease dramatically. And this might happen after this series. If not expect another series that's even more dumbed down.
I get the impression the presenters may also be getting bored and wondering how far they can take things and still make lots of money. JC outside of Top Gear is not this bad - that programme on Brunel was quite good and his writing I also like. James May has presented lots of programmes and he comes across as more intelligent than the other two. Hammond I'm not sure if there's much more to him than what he does on TG and his other shows.
Edited by rtj70 on 08/12/2009 at 19:14
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I actually like Richard Hammond on some of his science programs aimed at children (my kids are firmly in the CBBC target audience), he could have a future on something akin to a modern Tomorrow's World perhaps ?
James May's recent Toy Stories series was excellent as was his program on Space Flight and as others have said JC's other work is good too, so maybe it's just time to give TG a rest ?
To be honest other pressures (like writing a Masters Dissertation) get in the way of my television watching these days, watching the odd episode of TG (I've recorded them all but still haven't watched some of the summer series) I still find it entertaining and light relief, which is the point isn't it ?
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It's definitely been getting a bit stale and formulaic for a while now. The jolly japes are so totally stage-managed that they're losing even their comedy value. However, it has to be said the camerawork is consistently good.
Edited by Typ 8L on 09/12/2009 at 23:38
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According to the figures on the link below, TG is comfortably the most popular program on BBC2 and well up the rankings for BBC1 programs. As long as it remains so, guess there is no real incentive to change anything too radically.
www.barb.co.uk/report/weeklyTopProgrammesOverview
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On Have I Got a Bit More News For You tonight BBC2 2130
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Saw it last night in the normal length version. He came across as I suspected. And all positive in my opinion. Best presenter/person on current Top Gear.
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Nice one PU.
I deliberatedly avoided it last night so I could see the longer version tonight.
What a load of balls (am I allowed to say that?).
Edited by Pugugly on 13/12/2009 at 00:39
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Was it ? About to watch it tonight on iplayer. Hope it's all I expected now.
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>>>> Was it ? About to watch it tonight on iplayer. Hope it's all I expectednow.
I woz moderated fer a snooker comment!
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Sorry I didn't realize that - it was ditched I assume, I thought my Sky Box had failed me - iPlayer was locked out as well. The word was balls I'll put it back !
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Presenters on Top Gear have become "cartoon characters"', according to the creator of the popular BBC show. “I do believe we have got the three presenters playing their cartoon characters a bit too much – Jezza the walking nuclear bomb, Richard the daft Norman Wisdom and James the bumbling professor."
Andy Wilman, the producer and the man credited with thinking of the many crazy stunts, said some fans had begun complaining about the show.
Full story here:- tinyurl.com/y8elad7 (links to The Telegraph)
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/12/2009 at 15:16
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There's no way that it can be called a true motoring programme. It's a light entertainment programme based on cars. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Incidentally, does anybody know why they used the old Liana for Jenson Button's appearance as the Star In A Reasonably Priced Car? I was only half-watching that part and may have missed something.
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Incidentally does anybody know why they used the old Liana for Jenson Button's appearance as the Star In A Reasonably Priced Car? I was only half-watching that part and may have missed something.
So the F1 drivers will have all driven in the same car, to have a meaningful score board.
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Ah, it all makes sense now. Ta, Westpig.
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Its good to know they are aware of the criticism and the direction they need to go in, can only be a positive thing. I read that the BBC have no plans to cancel it.
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I thought that it was a bit of an "oops" moment for Jenson... he was desperately trying to make out the conditions were worse than they were and must have known that he still hadn't beaten Lewis's time... and will be in the same team next year... Psycological advantage Hamilton methinks...
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They were both a lot quicker than most people would be. A car is a car, even though in F1 the jalopy is supposed to be tailor-made and fine-tuned to the driver's twitches and foibles so to speak.
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I agree, but how successful a driver is within a team is down a lot to how dominant they are... just look at how Schuey controlled his teammates, Prost and Senna were similar... so, now matter how trivial it is, you don't put yourself up against your team mate in a "race" with identical cars before the season starts... and lose... I feel Hamilton must be laughing himself silly...
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Well, there will be what's going on, and there will also be the fevered public fantasizing about what is going on a la footer fans...
I don't really mean you b308! But I prefer to wait and see what the season will bring. I wouldn't be surprised if you are right. The feline, incisive Hamilton may turn out much quicker. Don't forget though that there's a new regime in the team backing package. It may not be so simple.
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At 7:00 James May's Toy Stories, in which he builds the worlds longest 00 gauge model railway, ten miles in all.
So set the alarm to rouse yourselves from your after dinner slumber as it shoud be a good watch.
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His Scalectrix (spelling?) at Brooklands, last night, was very good. He is a most amiable presenter but I wish he could move on from the mangy lion look which he favours at the moment!
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I wish he could move on from the mangy lion look which he favours at the moment!
That IS James May.
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james may, the best of the three presenters fron TG, clarksons too stuck in his ways , hammond does the stupid brainiac and the stuff about whats harming us ...blah blah
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>>hammond does the stuff about whats harming us ...
The Morrisons advert?
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This may take the wind out of the sails of some of the Top Gear knockers:
tinyurl.com/y8jg7rs
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This may take the wind out of the sails of some of the Top Gear knockers:
"The show, which was completely reinvented in the early noughties, topped a poll commissioned for Channel 4 for a special programme next week."
Fair enough. But...
"Snow Patrol hit Chasing Cars was named the top tune of the decade for another show on the station which looks back over the past 10 years in music."
Who have they been asking? :-)
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Probably the same lot that voted for those Irish twins on X Type Factor
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Both the presenters and the producer of Top Gear admit the content has lost its way over the last couple of series and seem to have taken on board the criticisms aimed at them from loyal fans. Changes to next years series are afoot.
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They had the last of the series on on Christmas Day, Model Railways... I felt it was also the weakest of them, they definitely over-extended themselves, too much to do in too little time... and the weather had its say as well... wrong type of rain!! The best I reckon were either the first one, the Airfix Spitfire or the Scalextric one...
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They had the last of the series on on Christmas Day Model Railways... I felt it was also the weakest of them
SWMBO, who is not noted for her love of trains, is watching a recording now, and it is preventing her from going out shopping :-)
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They should have had a spare locomotive standing by so they could at least complete the run.
The footage of that German layout was fantastic. I am tempted to get mine down from the loft, I have collected a fair bit over the years.
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I think the record had to be with the same locomotive. Now they could have had a spare motor and bushes.
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Let tonight's Top Gear's Bolivia Special be the last, in what has been a pathetic series as have, indeed, a large majority of episodes from previous ones.
Leave while you on a low!!
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The show is definately looking tired and dated now. It needs a complete revamp of the format.
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I don't know what people are going on about here. I thoroughly enjoyed the latest episode of the Land Rover, Toyota and Suzuki in Bolivia. I really like the special episodes without the studio/interview/track racing stuff. Just the three boys messing about and making good TV. No, its not consumer advice. Why would I watch these three idiots for consumer advice? I watch them for entertainment. Top Gear is an entertainment show. Use the Internet (ahem, this website) for consumer advice, not Top Gear on TV. 'Nuff said.
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I enjoyed it but felt like a lot of it was edited out.
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Well it is many days of footage squeezed into 1 hour...
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I realise that, usually I don't notice it though. I suppose the problem these trips could be a series in their own right.
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I enjoyed tonights challenge, most likely to be the highlight of the series. They actually do these better than the studio stuff now.
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James May summed it up by saying to Hammond "crashing into the back of me wasn't funny 3 series ago, and it still isn't funny now"
or words to that effect.
It was just a typical episode where Clarkson was being destructive, Hammond was being clumsy, and May was being sensible.
For me the best episode was the road trip across the USA, closely followed by the Polar Special and African road trip.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/12/2009 at 01:13
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IMO, last nights show was the best. had to rewind and check out the mountain scenes where Clarkson nearly went overt the 2000' cliff. not sure if that bit was stage managed as most of the show is now, but I felt that one of them may have been killed or killed another person as their vehicles could lose steering control any mo.
I used to feel sorry for the small bloke but since his accident, he's go too big for his boots.
last nights showe tried to make Mr may in to a hard man where he went over to the oafs range rover and made idle threats with his machete - that was indeed stage managed.
BTW - mrs Stigg was left out!
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I watched the Bolivia Episode as entertainment only. I thought it odd that the cars were delivered with no sensible means of getting them off the barge, I couldn't work out how the one delivered with flat tyres got them inflated, and at the end when they were trying to reach the Pacific, why did they turn off a black top road to drive down a 2000 foot scree? This looked seriously scary, bearing the condition of the vehicles they were using.
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Am presently reading Richard Hammonds book "As You Do" and it gives an interesting insight into the Polar adventure challenge. It might give more but thats as far as I have got!!
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Thought that last night's TG was like the proverbial Curate's Egg. The first part with the car delivery nonsense dragged a bit and especially all that supposed driving hours through a jungle (round and round in circles, probably).
The photography of the high Andes of course was magnificent but the undercurrent of stage management/scripting and editing and 'falseness' of the majority of the programme spoils it for me. Of course I realise that this has to be done for safety reasons but knowing this always happens takes the edge of the programme for me.
JC and his stooges have become rather pathetic caricatures of themselves and that is a pity. Ironically now, though, the stooges have greater TV presence than does JC and I get fed up with them both - well, in truth I avoid them like the plague.
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did you not fall down that ravine in that 4x4.
Spoiled my Christmas.
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Why do people watch such stuff if they cant see the entertainment value of it? An dthen complain about it?
I dont like the "soaps" and "reality" shows, so I actually dont watch it !
But to see how cars can do more than we actually believe then they are interesting shows.
Dont like it? Dont watch it! Simple surely ?
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Trouble is amongst all the rubbish in it there is the odd pearl of motoring related stuff...I watch it one Sky+ and fast forward through the silly stuff.
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"pearl" of motoring related stuff?
Its not a programme to watch for information on vehicles that would relate to ownership surely?
Its more of a "lets treat these cars like ordinary people do" (but exaggerated) and see what happens?
By that I mean, the 3 different appraoches of the 3 presenters!
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Oh there are some nice bits continental drives in fast British saloons - some fast saloons being driven hard, I like that sort of stuff.
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fast saloons being driven hard, I understand.
You might also consider the South American trip as "old 4wd cars driven hard" ?
Depends on your viewpoint as to whether its good or not, as per "eastenders". But why watch it and keep complaining? Watch it once and not watch again I understand.
Complaining for sake of complaining otherwise!
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Quite clearly Top Gear has become a sacred cow of sorts and we're not allowed to criticize any part of it.
Edited by Pugugly on 28/12/2009 at 12:17
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Then surely so has eastenders ?
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You're right and I hate that but there are no good bits that redeem it.
Edited by Pugugly on 28/12/2009 at 12:20
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Complain then!
Personally if i felt compelled to complain it would have been turned off though!
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I'm not that bothered about either bigger things to worry about - I just don't understand how someone criticizing something suddenly becomes the devil incarnate. There are childish bits in it that don't appeal to me personally - each to their own. What I'm saying is there are bits of Top Gear I like - that's allowed surely ?
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you nearly redeem yourself by sayung there are bits that you like, but.....
in this inconsiderate age represented by so many in here ( :) ) you either have to fully support or fully hate something; there seem to be no half measures !
I am not a tv fan generally, and I find it hard to sit and watch anything just because its on. If I felt compelled to complain (enough to make a post here) it would have gone off or i would have found something else to do etc.
Nothing personal btw
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I know - I half hate it half like it then ! :-) - I actually want to like it.
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Repeated tonight,same time,same channel.Also on Iplayer.
If there's ever an episode or special when someone finally smacks Clarkson in the mouth will someone please let me know,I'd hate to miss that.
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oldgit, I simply do not understand you. Why do you watch Top Gear if you don't like it? I absolutely hate East Enders and Coronation Street - and as a result I have never watched these programmes on purpose, only ever caught a few clips while waiting for it to end or switching through channels. Do you just enjoy moaning about it?
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oldgit I simply do not understand you. Why do you watch Top Gear if you don't like it?
I'm not going to satify you with an answer. Suffice it to say, it could be so much better as a motoring-related programme.
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You can please some of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all the people all of the time....
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Of course he enjoys moaning about TG - the clue is in the name - oldgit - doesnt conjure up anything but an image of an old person waiting, hoping, to be let down and thus they can the participate in that older generation hobby - complaining :-)
My father is 70 and if he isnt moaning, its time to check his pulse! Luckily, he does see TG for what it is and enjoys the silly nature of it, but then he liked Monty Python too.
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what i find hard to swallow is the well documented fact that james may is scared of heights and cant read a map...but he has a private pilots licence ! in my book to possess such a document requires a lot of experience at altitude and a very good grasp of navigation
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Fear of heights is no bar to being a pilot. I certainly can't walk to the edge of a big drop to save my life but I have 5000 hours flying logged. Map reading largely died a death with the advent of GPS I think
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I know it's weird isn't it AS ? I have done some fairly extreme skiing in my time, leaping off cliffs and so on but standing at the top of a tall building makes me giddy. I think it's a control thing.
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Quite a good romp I thought - if you compare like-for-like, e.g. Charlie Boreman (spelling deliberate) travelogues on m/bikes etc., Micheal Palin up the whatevers etc.
One thing I can't abide though are the set-ups. For example, JC passing another vehicle on the very narrow 'road of death' - how come all the angles & views were just right? How long did it take & how many re-shoots were needed? It insults the intelligence to make out any of it is even quasi-verite footage - even allowing for its mockumentary manner/genesis.
Oh, and I do crave the indulgence of the TG thought-police in writing this slightly less than fulsome review & critique of last night's programme ;)
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I agree with Woodbines. I'd like to see a "Making of..." programme just to see how big the support crew was, how much was set up, how much assistance they had etc.
Whenever I see someone clinging by their fingertips to a rock face looking like a hero I always think about the cameraman who is holding the camera and presumably clinging on with his kness, or some such appendage.
Good programme though, a Christmas highlight.
JH
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You shouldn't have watched it at all apparently woodie ! :-P
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In Hammond's book about the Polar trek, he discusses how the tv crew got the shots with him and the dogs.
Apparently every time the dogs saw the tv crews they made a beeline for them. They had to come up with all sorts of disguises etc until they eventually had to get the trainer to train the dogs not to go to them.
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Of course he enjoys moaning about TG - the clue is in the name - oldgit >> My father is 70 and if he isnt moaning its time to check his pulse! Luckily he does see TG for what it is and enjoys the silly nature of
With respect, you sound very immature but we were all there once!! Anyway, I'm older than your father.
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Oldgit, chill out, have a Horlicks, its ok to be grumpy, its the new 40 :-) - didnt you see Grumpy Christmas!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 29/12/2009 at 01:42
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If there's ever an episode or special when someone finally smacks Clarkson in the mouth.....
Will this suffice?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nl9nqMKavI
approx 1 min 30 secs into the clip.
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