As some of the regulars will know, I'm a Saab man & I currently have a 9-5 which has been chipped from 150 to 192bhp. No problems there. I am now looking at options for improving the handling. What I want to do is improve body control, reduce high speed float, retain a good ride as much as possible. I do not want a sports car, but what I do want is a car that feels sharper on the road, can safely be driven fast on winding A & B roads but is still comfortable - I am 49 after all! I spend a lot of time on motorways, and have found that on long sweeping bends, the car is a shade underdamped.
Having done a bit of research, there are two basic setups that seem to be appropiate. I'd be interested in comments from fellow backroomers before I start serious discussions with the vendors - as the two options would potentially come from separate suppliers, there will inevitable be some bias in their recommendations.
OK, the two possibilities, which interestingly have very similar costs, are:
1. Fit uprated shocks, retain standard springs, fit uprated anti-roll bars front & rear;
2. Fit uprated springs & shocks, retain standard anti-roll bars.
The car currently runs on the standard 205/65VR15 tyres on steel wheels - my plan is to upgrade these to alloys but retain the 15" diameter for comfort - I'm willing to trade ultimate roadholding for comfort, they are pretty good as they are. Saab UK have already confirmed these are OK when used with the genuine Saab suspension upgrade.
It might be relevant to note, as an example of my personal taste, that when I was given a lift in an old BMW 3-series coupe a few years ago that I found the ride uncomfortably firm over some of our local roads.
I know that there are other combinations (e.g. option 2 AND the anti-roll bars) but this might be over the top for my needs.
Over to you my friends for what I know will be useful and pertinent comments. If I've missed a trick & someone has other ideas, please let me know!
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Mike
As a BMW coupe owner, my thought after the first couple of lines was buy a BMW, because I've made my views on the Saab 900 I owned for a while known here many times. Too soft, underdamped, prone to understeer, and lurch. The BMW runs rings round the Saab in the handling stakes. Note that all E36 Coupes run the lowerer and stiffer M Tech suspension, but even the standard suspension is pretty good.
The problem you'll have is that tightening it up will reduce apparent ride comfort, but frankly I find soft suspension makes me feel queasy, and have no problem with the BM.
On a positive note I believe a company called Abbott Racing specialise in Saab suspenion. Sorry I don't have a contact number.
Regards
John S
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www.abbottracing.com They would appear to have all the answers.
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Thanks John, Abbott is one of the suppliers I alluded to in my post, as they sell the anti-roll bars. The other is Trent Saab. As I said, what I'm looking for here are some thoughts from those with no axe to grind.
The 900 is a different kettle of fish to the 9-5. All you say about it is true. The 9-5 is Vectra-based which doesn't give it a good start in life, but it is a much better car as standard than the 900. The original suspension on the 9-5 is not particularly soggy or soft in everyday use, but it does just need that sharpening up. We drove to Austria in the summer (SWMBO doesn't fly unless she's desperate), and cruising on the autobahn at 100 (in the slow lane at times!!) showed up some of the weaknesses - never unsafe, but on long sweeping and/or undulating bends, there was that not-quite-happy feel.
It's what grabs you I suppose - I have found all 3-series BMs claustrophobic inside because of their size....I don't like "small" cars!
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Mike
Yes, faced with the choice we sold the 900 and kept the Vectra. It just felt so much safer.
After 90 odd thousand miles your car's dampers will be well past their best, so replacing those with uprated units will make a considerable difference. I believe one of the key Abbott mods on a 900/9-3 involves the anti-roll bar and its location, although whether that's so important on the 9-5 I don't know. However, looking at HJ's recent 'new 900' test Saabs are by design understeerers, and that's one thing affected by anti-roll bar settings.
Yes, a 3 series is smaller than a 9-5, but you could always consider a 5-series :-)
Certainly no problem with 3-series stability during high speed cruising - although, of course, I couldn't possibly comment about speeds in excess of 70.
Regards
John S
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Have to say I can't agree with the comments about the Vectra feeling safer - I've had a couple as hire cars and refuse to drive them now. Felt as out of touch with reality as some of our politicians.
When I came to change my company car last year (had a Saab 9-3 diesel), I tried a 525d auto - fantastic car - would have one tomorrow - but decided to go the route of taking the money & buying a car, which put the BM out of my price range. hence the ex-fleet 9-5 at a third of its new price....
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Hi Mike,
what age and milage is it?
CMark
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1999, S reg (January). Now done 93k. I know it's not in the first flush of youth, but hey, my 15-yr old 9000 still has the original shocks & springs! It started life as a single-driver company car, & I guess to have racked up the 73k it had on it when I bought it last year it had spent most of its 33 months on the motorway.
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Had a Saab 9-5 Estate this summer while overseas for a longish job related relocation.
The thing I think the car needs most would be uprated anti roll bars. Definitely a bit roly poly when given a bit of stick on the twisty stuff through the Scandinavian forests.
The ride comfort was essentially fine, and it would be a shame to lose that, but it certainly felt underdamped and, as you say, esp on long fast bends where there is some undulation.
This would conclude me to suggest option 1 and definitely not option 2.
I assume the uprated dampers would be gas eg Bilstein or ??
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Yup, although possibly Konis (as recommended by Abbott Racing), or Ehrbach (as used on current Aero & sold by Trent Saab, usually as a matched set with uprated springs, which is where I came in....).
Thanks for the feedback so far guys, my gut feel has always been that option 1 is a good compromise for my requirements.
Back to your post - as the scandinavian speed limit is a blanket 50 (except for the odd motorway stretch where you can blast up to 65), the "stick" you gave it must have been from the trees a la Basil Fawlty? :-)
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At the risk of getting this put into the speeding non camera thread.
Briefly
busy / tricky areas 30 (not too many of these)
towns and local roads generally 50
suburbs generally 70
outside town 90/110 dependant upon road.
note you can have 110 on normal undivided roads as well as duals.
Odd stretches of 70 and 50 on junctions with an accident history, and variable limits used according to time of year.
All in all I would say common sense prevails, and the limits are much more intuitive than we get in UK today generally fitting quite well to the road type.
These are all in kph so your summary is not too far off, but I would say in reality perhaps a bit quicker than you suggest.
As for the forest and Basil Fawlty? Weeeell, if you turn off a road with a 110 limit onto a forest track and there is no sign then the prevailing limit must be ?? All in all with a strong desire to keep it on the island and no competitive pressure thats quite quick enough for me on standard tyres, brakes and suspension eye thank yew. ;o)
Least said soonest mended perchance.
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I had this problem when I bought the Omegas as it wasn't particularly suited to my style of driving :) The first thing to go was the 205/65/15 tyres as there was a fair bit of sidewall flex which may well have been a benefit to the ride but hampered cornering abilities. Those were replaced with 245/45/17's which are thick enough to absorb most bumps.
After that all the bushes were replaced and Koni adjustable shocks & Eibach springs were fitted. Now the car handles like a dream, but its definately at the expense of comfort, particularly on bad road surfaces. On motorways the car is perfectly comfortable, although the extra width on the tyres increases tyre noise.
I think i have discovered that I can't have comfort and excellent handling without ditching the car for something else, namely a 5 series!
Best of luck
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I think you're going to have to sacrifice some comfort for better handling.
I'm riding on ADJUSTABLE Konis, front and rear, and lower springs in a Cav Turbo. They're set pretty tight, so most roads are crashy/thumpy, but the transformed handling's worth it.
With these, you can play about with the settings to find the best compromise.
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