ok rather a long story here that i would like some unbiased opinions on. my sisters boyfriend agreed to buy a modified rx7 off a mate for 5k, he was due to go to afghanistan so a deal was struck whereby he paid 2.5k deposit the v5 was signed and would pay the the remaining when he returned 7 weeks later. he went of on tour but it was cut short and returned after 3 weeks, this left him short on money as he was going to fund the payment from his extra tour pay, he spoke to the owner who said not a problem pay it when you have it. he collected it everything seemed ok, i saw him about an hour later and he said the coolant alarm was going off and something wasn't right. i had a quick look at it for him and a water pipe hasn't been jubilee clipped on and has blown due to pressure. we refilled the coolant system but the buzzer still stayed on, strange but we put it down to the coolant sensor sticking (ive seen this before) he took it out for a short run and it behave fine, stopped to check everything over and there was water coming from the turbo and the car refused to start. recovered it home and after a good look over i was starting to have a real bad feeling of a major issue (mostly set of by the bodges of easy jobs on the car such as chocolate blocked wiring and poor ran pipes.) anyway after some work we concluded the water seals had gone (it's a rotary engine).
now the car was sold as having had a full 3k rebuild from rxmotors so he's not amused, we pulled the engine out and stripped it last week, the whole of it is scrap, there are heavy rotor marks in the plates, there are two cracks in the water galleries on one of the housings which has caused the new water seal to fail the rotors are heavily corroded so have obviously been sat in water for quite a while. the rotor tips have metal retainers which mark on one side due to a spring under them, the ones in this engine have spring marks both sides so have been taken out and put back in the wrong way round. the longer rotar seals have also been removed and put back in upside down as there are witness marks both sides. there are heavy gouges in one housing.
now the seller has claimed he knows nothing about it but it has since come to light with photo evidence that he dropped a nut down the turbo manifold into the housings and took the engine apart to retrieve it and has rebuilt it badly causing these issues, the gouges ion one housing are where he's trapped the nut turning the rotor with a ratchet. even with this evidence he's denying all responsibility for the problems and threatening to sue for the remaining money.
where does my sisters boyfriend stand? technically the v5 has been signed money accepted and there is nothing except his word that another 2.5k is due. the car has been sold as fully rebuilt yet can be proved otherwise this is surely deception? is my sisters boyfriend liable to have to pay the remaining amount then have to swallow the 2.5k repair bill?
any advice gratefully accepted
chris
Edited by Pugugly on 12/06/2009 at 00:21
|
Best of luck with this. It sounds the engine was "rebuilt" and badly.
Alarm bells maybe should have rang when the purchased car was a modified RX7.
If the boyfriend paid for all of it in one go it would have been sold as seen probably and no come back.
I hope some on here can advise.
Rob
|
He sure as hell wouldn't be getting the other £2.5k if it was me. Tell him to see you in court.
If the seller is a pain, a little visit with a few mates from the unit that went to Afganistan would probably sort it.
|
|
It sounds hard, but the best thing he can do is take the car back and then "lean" on the seller for his/some money back. Throwing more money into it, and potentially having to pay another £2.5k if the seller wins in court will be even more expensive.
|
the engine was built properly by rxmotors they've confirmed this, it's the fact the owner has had it apart diy since that has caused the issues.
im fairly sure a judge would rule with my sisters boyfriend as the car is not as advertised but im not sure what the outcome would be, would the judge request he pay market value for the car with a blown engine, would he make the seller take it back and issue a refund. can her boyfriend really get away with claiming the deal was for 2.5k and he knows nothing about the other money? he's happy to keep the car and ill rebuild it but not at 7.5k (which is actually nearer the market value for the car with it's mods,but it was sold cheap as they were supposed to be mates).
chris
|
"it was sold cheap as they were supposed to be mates"
I doubt it - not many people give away £2.5k to a mate. The car isn't worth £5k, so how could it be worth £7.5k?
The seller knew it was suspect, but hope it would last longer.
|
im not getting into a debate about the market value of it as properly modified cars are always hard to price but ive looked personally at similar specced models and they are selling for towards 8 grand, that isn't advertised price but final completed auction prices. as for why it's been sold under price then yes it does appear he's gone out to stitch my sisters boyfriend up but with proven receipts for about 17k for the car i can see why he's been taken in. the damage is done im just more after advice now for where he stands regards having to pay full cost for it
chris
|
|
The fact that you have stripped the engine down would not help a court case determine what or who damaged the engine. He could turn round and say it was OK until you messed around with it.
|
Thomp - how have you got hold of photos taken by the seller of him dropping an object into the engine and the consequent damage? It seems a strange thing for him to have shown you. I am not disputing that he meddled with the engine BTW but I am suprised that you have pictures!
|
both the seller and the buyer are part of a local car club and the seller has a detailed project thread on the car build which lists the whole dropped nut saga.
i can't see how the engine being apart can cloud the issues, where the water galleries have broken they clearly show long term wear and corrosion, this can't be achieved in the time he had it, the same can be again said for the deep wear marks on the plates from the rotor making contact. and again the witness marks on both sides of the rotar seals, they can't of been done with the engine disassembled. we also have the opinion of someone who is considered as an authority on these engines who was present during this disassembly that the problems found are long standing issues and terminal failure was inevitable.
chris
|
So buyer and seller part of the same local car club. And probably the sale was because of this? Let them sort it out amongst themselves?
There is more to this than probably meets the eye, so to speak. Why mention for example returning from duty 4 weeks early so the money to pay the remainder of the money owed was not earned? That seems irrelevant with the problems with the car.
Thread being monitored closely in case it needs locking.
Edited by rtj70 on 12/06/2009 at 00:45
|
i mentioned the rest of the money not being earned because as i see it if he had paid the full amount then this happened then he would probably be up a creek, but as there is money still owing i was wondering if he has any more rights than if it was all paid for?
yes they are part of the same club which is why the sale was agreed at a good price as the seller wanted it to go to a good home (or maybe he saw and easy opportunity to get rid) .
chris
|
"i was wondering if he has any more rights than if it was all paid for?"
He has no more rights, but he has some leverage. He could, for example, demand a lower price, to take into account the condition.
|
>>im fairly sure a judge would rule with my sisters boyfriend as the car is not as advertised
In what respect is it not as advertised? Legally I'm not convinced you'd have to own up to the bodged engine rebuild when selling. There's a difference between lying and not telling the whole truth - IMHO anyway.
|
the whole thing is a mess
tell the seller to choose someone they trust, (not family or really close friend) e.g. boss at work...tell the buyer to do the same
get these two nominated people to look at all the facts, then to suggest a price that they think was fair to pay for the car. Split the difference between the two figures they come up with. Pay it/refund it then move on with their lives more experience. Saves a load of stress/hassle/lawyers fees.
I did the above when splitting with an ex-girlfriend when we both co-owned a house. Worked a treat and we had no arguements at all over the finances.
|
Sounds like Judge Judy!
i've been outed
|
your idea does sound like the way to go westpig and im sure the matter will be sorted before getting to court.
i feel the car is misadvertised as it has been sold as having a recent 3k engine rebuild and being in excellent mechanical order. the seller has since the rebuild had the engine apart himself and will have seen the scored housing from the nut he dropped even if he has overlooked the cracked water galleries and would know with that sort of damage to the housing the engine was going to have a very short future.
chris
|
|
Yep, fair enough, if it was described as 'excellent mechanical order' that certainly sounds like misrepresentation.
|
There would be no way I would allow extended 'mates rates' credit facilities if I thought that the car was going to imminently self destruct.
|
well this has now all been resolved, both parties have agreed that the final price for the car is to be 4k, this leaves my sisters boyfriend about £500 out of pocket but all things considered it's alot better than it could of been. i on the other hand now have a lovely set of stitches in my hand where there used to be an unbroken vein(minor accident whilst making a blanking plate) and have removed and properly refitted just about every aftermarket part that has been fitted to the engine, there were sensors and wiring hanging about all over the place which have now all been properly rerouted and attached to new brackets to keep things safe and tidy and all seems to be working well.
chris
|
.... and all seems to be working well.
Whereas in your original post:
we pulled the engine out and stripped it last week, the whole of it is scrap, there are heavy rotor marks in the plates, there are two cracks in the water galleries.....
Did you manage to repair the original engine to the 'modded' spec' or source a second-hand one?
|
sorry missed that bit, we managed to source a low mileage second hand short block (so just the housings/plates and rotors with no ancilleries) which we refitted.
chris
|
Sounds like 'a result' then, Chris :-)
It's a good job you're so mechanically-adept (and kind!) - others would be floundering in similar circumstances...
Well done!
|
