Remember the 1966 Dodge Charger with the starting problem? I attacked it with a multimeter and found the battery was only delivering around 8.5 volts when operating the starter. It was nearly three years old, and the car had been in storage for a lot of that time, so I wasted no time replacing it. I also checked the battery and earth leads and cleaned up the connections. The replacement battery delivered 10.5 volts when operating the starter, which is fine from what I have read, but the cranking speed didn't seem a lot better, even after I had charged the battery in case it had lost charge while sitting in the shop.
The odd thing is that I drove the car again today, and cranking speed is now very much faster. When you spin it on the starter it actually sounds like a V8 under there, not like a diesel Land Rover on a cold morning which is how it was before. Do new batteries need a 'running in' period before they can deliver their full performance?
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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Yes I have experienced this with an exide battery that provided a low cranking speed as new and fully charged but improved afer a couple of day use. It appears that the plate design holds minute gas bubbles when not in use and effectively raised the interanl impedance. Then when installed driven around the inpedance drops and the cranking speed increases. However that battery died after a couple of years and I've gone over to the Bosch Silver range. Well worth the extra and very high cold cranking current and therefore speed. Regards Peter
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There is also some effect that is due to plate surface area.
When you charge the battery the lead deposited on the plates is a sort of sponge. The pits and tunnels in the lead increase the surface area and so increase the batteries ability to supply short term high current loads, or so I thought.
Maybe this initial discharge recharge is just finishing off the conditioning the battery manufacturer should do.
After all if IKEA can get away with asking you to build your owm furniture maybe the same goes for Exide et al. Next thing will be Marks and Sparks selling cloth, needle and thread and asking us to sew our own underpants ;-)
Anyway all you want to know about batteries at
www.uuhome.de/william.darden/
is this one worthy of your faqs list HJ?
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Are you sure the battery charger volts are not less than the alternator volts about 14.7 volts? I would of expected around 9volts starting with any battery, three years for a battery is not a good life, the Primera battery at 5 years is still good on a life of short trips.
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I recently discussed batteries with Phil, our local accessory shop man. He said that a simple test of a battery's quality is to feel the weight of it. I thought I'd try this out for myself. Sure enough, a known high quality battery weighed roughly twice as much as a low cost one of exactly the same type and size. Heavy stuff, lead!
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The replacement battery is a Hoppecke (good quality German brand) and weighs about as much as a Fiat Panda. Certainly a lot heavier than the one it replaced, although physically the same size. The fact that the old battery died just short of its third birthday doesn't surprise me at all - it has had long periods in storage interspersed with a series of very deep discharge cycles (starting this car, even when everything is fine, takes some perseverance). This treatment would kill off even the best quality battery.
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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Batteries just seem to charge more effectively on a vehicle than on a charger.
I recon it's either that they like being shaken around to get the acid in proper contact with the plates and any bubbles loosened or else that the alternator output characteristics suit the battery's requirements better.
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I had a lot of trouble with batteries till I charged one with an ancient charger(no electronic control)since then no problem.
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I've said this before and been shot down, but IMHO it is overcharging batteries that kills them, not discharging them.
So electronically controlled pocket chargers are designed to give a lowish trickle charge, tailing off as full charge is reached. Only a proper charger giving a full current will charge a new battery, and an alternator or generator on the car does that most effectively.
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It's probably a load of old cobblers but someone once told me that the battery manufacturers "build in" obsolescence by making the plates longer. The idea being that during use, small flakes fall off the plates, as dust. Once the pile of dust on the inside of the casing reaches a critical point (not sure quite what!) then the battery will just discharge itself.
I bet there is a techie out there somewhere with a proper explantion, there usually is!
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Hoppecke??
I bought one 3-4 years ago because I recalled that this was original equipment on my VW. I bought a heavy duty one for my 405, but it died within 14 months and was replaced under guarantee. The replacement died within 16 months. That is when I remembered that my OE Hoppecke battery died within 14 months of the (new) car being bought.
Perhaps no longer high quality. Try a substitute
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I've heard that too, that the debris at the bottom of the battery shorts out the plates.
I've often thought about giving the battery a good shake, draining out the acid and debris, letting the acid stand for half an hour for the debris to settle out then pouring the cleaned acid back in.
Anyone tried that?
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I don't think shaking would be advisable - the plates and the vital deposit on them are quite fragile. Upending and draining might work, but I have never heard of this shorting through debris phenomenom.
One way I have been told by an expert that they do build in obsolescence is by conning people that batteries need no maintenance. As the fluid evaporates through use and heat, the plates start to be exposed. Exposed plates are killed, so the available capacity of the battery gradually declines with time. There is no magic breakthrough in technology that says they are now 'sealed for life', it is just that people expect them to have a shorter life nowadays.
If you keep the acid level topped up to 1/8 inch above the visible plates, using distilled water exactly as in the old days, then batteries last much longer.
Cheap batteries are lighter and have a lower capacity because the plates are thinner, weaker, and have fewer convolutions, flutes, etc to increase the surface area, and it is that that determines the capacity.
In my experience good car batteries, regularly topped up, last 10 years. I have had heavy duty batteries on a marine diesel that lasted 20 years. They would be fully charged on laying up in the autumn, and would always start the engine the next spring without any further charging. But they were about 4 times the size of a car battery and weighed a ton.
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Richard,it is also worth knowing what type of starter you've got.The indirect type which has gearing tend to turn more slowly than the direct type. The starter will always turn faster after a run.
Mikey J.
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