I was surprised to find the inside of the heat exchanger (?) of my old Gloworm Majorca back boiler completely carboned up. We'd only recently bought the house, and I was concerned about the orange glow from the boiler when it fired up, the black streaks up the fireplace and the 'not quite smell' which I assume was less than healthy.
I'm going back many years now. The boiler had only been fitted about three years previously. I was able to take the front off the heat exchanger - it was full of carbon. It never happened again for the next twenty-odd years it lasted. What do you reckon could have caused that?
It was replaced with another back boiler a few years ago. This one doesn't look nearly so easy to take apart. I dont think I can get into it the same.
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Carbon? you mean soot?
incomplete combustion - normally lack of oxygen
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>>I was concerned about the orange glow from the boiler when it fired up,
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Many years ago I had the same problem with a multipoint water heater in a small bathroom.
I was told that I had been lucky not to have got carbon monoxide poisoning.
It was simply a lack of ventilation so the combustion was not getting enough air and the sooting up was the other clue.
Since then stricter regulations have come about.
The two 90 degree bends in the flue of our heater was outlawed for 45 degree bends to speed the gasses away.
Many more balanced flue /fan assisted flue boilers (i.e. room sealed so none of the air inside the room is used in the combustion.) have been installed.
As mentioned earlier flue location relative to windows.
Be aware.
If a CORGI guy attends and cannot fix certain faults then the boiler may be IMMEDIATELY CONDEMED making it illegal to use it..
This happened to us with a cooker.
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The Majorca was a great boiler and fitted many of these. The Galaxie was the same boiler with a different gas fire fitted to it. Virtually all boilers fitted in my area were Gloworm as it was a local company. So well made that even the brackets were made from cast iron. Their foundry is now an housing estate and the last castings they ever needed were done in India.
I fitted one in my house and it was still good after 31 years. Never even changed the thermocouple. Still working as good as ever when the wife decided she needed a change.
The only items replaced were the radiants on the gas fire and I converted the gas fire igniter from battery to piezo.
Just checked the old manual and it specified 12 square inches of free air for combustion.
Why it would soot/carbon up is debatable especially that it never did it again.
You would of course have needed a 5 inch flue liner for this boiler...
Perhaps the suggestions above of incomplete combustion are correct and you made some alteration in your house which gave it more air. only guessing.......
wemyss
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Thanks for that wemyss, I must admit though, that in my mobile tuning days, I used to hate it when someone had previously fiddled with thier twin carbs, then I had to set them all up again but - hey, thats life!
I noticed that a cetain 'British Gas' company were offering to carry out a boiler service quite cheaply, but when I read the small print, all they really do is a flue & CO test, they don't actually do a strip & clean job.
I must admit that I've always "drawn the line" when it comes to gas, preferring to leave it to peops like you who know what they're doing, but economics have dictated that at age 55, I've had to learn how to plasterboard a ceiling, take up & refit a tongue & groovy floorboards, wire in an extra wall socket - it all comes down to gumption really + common sense ... I know Uni grads, boffins, specialists in their field - can't bang a nail in the wall.
As I've said before, I'm quite handy with an Irish screwdriver, but I would *NEVER* touch the actual gas part of a boiler, and I would strongly advise anyone to leave the gas to the peops who know what they are doing !!!
I shall be buying a CO alarm this weekend.
Cheers - Dog.
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Irish screwdriver - I've always known them as a Manchester screwdriver.
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From last thread: >>Also, I know that gas boilers have to be serviced by a Corgi reg.
No. Strangely, you can legally do anything you like with gas on a DIY basis provided you comply with building regs (there is the whole issue of competence, of course). Obviously if the place is rented, you need a safety cert; and to work on somebody else's gas and earn a living you need to be a Corgi.
However, with electricity you do need to be Part P qualified OR have it signed off by the building inspector. Bonkers. The Government thought that they were bringing the two in line... Oh no...
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From last thread: >>Also I know that gas boilers have to be serviced by a Corgi reg. No. Strangely you can legally do anything you like with gas on a DIY basis provided you comply with building regs (there is the whole issue of competence of course). Obviously if the place is rented you need a safety cert; and to work on somebody else's gas and earn a living you need to be a Corgi.
The rules (legal) for working on your own gas powered things at home are very simple. It needs to be done by a competent person. If it does not leak or blow up and its done according to the regs its competent. If it does (either) you were not competent.
Same this applies if you have a corgi registration. Do it wrong and you get prosecuted for not being competent - the registration wont save you.
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I've had to learn how to plasterboard a ceiling
You might not be allowed to do that without submitting an application, which will cost you, to your council's "building control".
take up & refit a tongue & groovy floorboards
You might not ... (as above).
wire in an extra wall socket
Unfortunately, yo certainly aren't allowed to do that, you naughty boy!
it all comes down to gumption really + common sense
Yes.
;) "Don't tell'im, Pike!"
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;) "Don't tell'im, Pike!"
Take care, though. Some day you might want to sell.
Clk Sec
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>> ;) "Don't tell'im Pike!" Some day you might want to sell.
After (1? 3?) years, no enforcement action can be taken. However, in extremes, your point is quite valid - I'm not sure that HIPs document everything, but they do some things. BB will be along soon to "correct" any oversights in monitoring/enforcement, I don't doubt.
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>>I'm not sure that HIPs document everything, but they do some things.
I was thinking more of the vast amount of paperwork a seller now has to complete, with many searching questions regarding building works, windows and doors, central heating boilers, electrics etc, etc.
Around thirty pages in all.
Clk Sec
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FT>>After (1? 3?) years, no enforcement action can be taken.
Not true. Failure to follow building regs never becomes acceptable.
FT>>>> wire in an extra wall socket
>>Unfortunately, yo certainly aren't allowed to do that, you naughty boy!
Not true. You can add an extra wall socket anywhere other than outside or the kitchen. Only if in either of those places, then you need to have it inspected by building control - or have it done by a Part P electrician.
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FT>>After (1? 3?) years no enforcement action can be taken. Not true. Failure to follow building regs never becomes acceptable.
If you can point me to an authoritatve source, I shall be grateful, since a BCO I know says it's 12 months.
FT>>>> wire in an extra wall socket >>Unfortunately yo certainly aren't allowed to do that you naughty boy! Not true.
Hm. I think adding a socket on a spur is OK - not in the ring. Is that true?
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What a load of nonsense this is. If you can count up to three and have colour vision electrical house wiring is pretty straightforward and you are a competent person. Jobsworths may be legally entitled to make silly interfering noises and get up your nose but you are morally entitled to send them off with a flea in their ear.
The worst problem usually is deciphering any pre-existing wiring.
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What a load of nonsense this is.
I absolutely agree.
Jobsworths (..) you are morally entitled to send them off with a flea in their ear.
Unfortunately, they may come back to bite you.
There's also the point that some people are afraid of these people and their regulations, despite the fact that no-one need know about some changes, and nothing can be done after a while even if they do. I've a relative like this, who's wasted £££ at least, maybe ££££. Pish.
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>> FT>>After (1? 3?) years no enforcement action can be taken. >> Not true. Failure to follow building regs never becomes acceptable. If you can point me to an authoritatve source I shall be grateful since a BCO I know says it's 12 months.
He might mean a Section 36 enforcement notice for contravention of Building Regs? S36 cannot be served more than 12 months after completion of work. But I think that does not remove the risk of, at time of sale, solicitors flagging up work done without approval (it may or may not get flagged up), and you may have to apply retrospectively.
I know a builder who recently had to apply retrospectively for work he did on his own house 8 years ago, before the sale could be completed.
Building regs should not be required solely for re-boarding a ceiling or fitting new floorboards as its non-structural work.
Are you allowed to add a socket on a spur, I'm not really up to speed on Part P? Planningportal.gov.uk should have the answer, but I dont have time to check.
Edited by Rich 9-3 on 12/09/2008 at 19:45
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Building regs should not be required solely for re-boarding a ceiling or fitting new floorboards as its non-structural work.
I'm afraid it is. There've been changes.
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I recall the wire mesh filter surrounding the injector (?), the gas pipe that points towards the cone that feeds the burner, was covered in fluff the first time I looked at the boiler. Could explain why it was sooted up.
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Altea Ego wrote:FT I have a stelrad floor mounted in use. Its about 20 years old. IF you dont find a good home for it and the OP doesent want it I may be interested. The mods will forward you my email address if you ask.
If you want it, you can have it. It's got original documentation as well.
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To be perfectly Honest - John ... I reckon only qualified peops should be allowed to touch gas appliances ... with electrickery, you only take yourself out (mainly) if put the green wire where the brown wire should go, but with gas, you could send your whole family to kingdom come + the neighbs as well.
Re: plasterboard, the original ceiling was Asbestos, and I should (I believe) have got a specialist Co. to remove and dispose of said carcinogen, but, like a lot of peops these days - I get sick and tired of EEC directives, the nanny state & the PC brigade.
Thanks to all for your help & advice - diydog!
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The debate about "qualified peops" and gas is interesting, because the two (small) gas leaks I've dealt with "competently*" as a non qualified person were caused by gas fitters performing a guarantee repair (different house, different repair).
I.E. there was no leak before they started, and there was when they left having finished their work.
I was never quite sure if the one who checked a gas fire installation I had done was having a laugh when we were discussing plumbing - he said he couldn't do that as water always came out somewhere...
* leak fixed, and didn't return.
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Ere!!! I must tell you this *true* story ... Wifey & I had just moved into a house in Hastings some 20 odd years ago, having escaped from London ...
I wanted to place the fridge under a unit but there was a large diameter pipe in the way, I checked to make sure everything I could switch off, was switched off, got my hacksaw out and proceeded to cut through the the kitchen like a headless chicken terrified the house was going to blow up, I called to er indoors hoping she would do something constuctive like opening the doors and windows, but no, she just ran out of the house and left me to it ... I eventually found the main stop cock & called the gasboard ...
The very next week we had The Hurricane of 1987 :(
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Heh heh Dog.
Gas fitters used to test for leaks in new or old work by playing a flame over the joints. If any gas was coming out it caught fire. Then they could take the joint apart and assemble it with more gunge. I've seen wicked old gas fitters release huge amounts of gas without turning a hair. Of course the old poisonous coal gas smelt more, but this modern stuff has a pong too albeit fainter.
Standard British Gas fitters charge proper money to 'service' water heaters but they specifically exclude pilot lights. This is a swizz because North Sea gas is dirty stuff and slowly gunges up the small holes in the system with a sort of crust.
Fortunately a rational person with spanners, solvents and small probes doesn't need the carphounds for that at least.
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>Gas fitters used to test for leaks in new or old work by playing a flame over the joints<
Yes, I've been thinking of that Lud, this house is 70 years old and I've often smelt gas around the supply pipe to the coal effect fire - even when its not in use, and I've thought of using a match to "check it out" ... obviously, to cause an explosion, gas has to build up to a fairly high volume in an enclosed space, so I would have "the guts" to check it out using a flame.
We have a 5 ring gas hob, and I notice that the burners and jets are like new, so I would assume that the boiler is the same (I'll find out)
But with oil (kerosene) that is a whole different ball game, we had an oil fired Rayburn a few years back, and that needed cleaning out every year, glad I'm not on oil now though - The price of the stuff !!
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I don't think you can beat a saucer of washing up liquid/water mix brushed on joints to check for gas leaks - cheap and effective.
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>>> don't think you can beat a saucer of washing up liquid/water mix brushed on joints to check for gas leaks - cheap and effective.<<<
And ... A damn sight safer!
Cheers - Dog.
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FT
what part of the country you in? what model is it?
cheers
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OK to send the your e-mail details on AE ?
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Slight thread swerve.....
Considering my only real problem is when a strong NEly is blowing, I'm considering putting a sheet of aluminium on one vertical section of the cage over the outlet. The cage stands about two inches off the baffle plates and, as the name implies, is open all round.
Might or might not work, but it shouldn't cause any problems?
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