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........ not to mention the ghastly colours they come in.
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One of my work colleagues has one. It's a fantastic car and he's very fond of it, but it has a serious drink problem. 23 mpg in daily use and will only crack 30 mpg on a gentle motorway run in perfect traffic conditions. He reckons that's the only negative after 18 months of ownership. Quick, reliable, well screwed together, fabulous handling, great sounding and it puts a smile on his face every time he goes for a drive.
I can't believe anyone would expect a 225 bhp 2.5 litre turbocharged petrol hot hatch to be economical, particularly if driven as intended.
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I read a long term review of the ST recently, the guy running it was overjoyed to get 24mpg on trip to France.
I think that might sum up the problem.
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I was within a whisker of buying an ST3 last October and after just driving one for 15 minutes was smitten. Proabably the best all-round car I have ever driven. It required huge willpower for heart not to rule the head....but I could not justify that sub 25mpg in daily use (even with my 8K mileage per year), especially with petrol that was then already 99p per litre. Even the saleman admitted that buyers need to be "fairly affluent to run this car". Had I gone ahead I would have incurred £4-5K depreciation in 7 months and the classifieds are now littered with low mileage examples from crestfallen owners as the OP has noted. ST's are also recommended to be run on super-unleaded just to add insult to injury. Anyone considering one should check out the Focus ST owners club "newbies" forum where the message is loud and clear: don't even bother looking at one if you are concerned about fuel economy...
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As someone said above you can't expect good fuel economy and good performance, but the BMW 3 litre petrol engine is capable of over 30 mpg in normal use and that has 265 bhp.
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I think BMW engines are in a class of their own when it comes to fuel efficiency. I too have heard of E46 330i drivers getting 30+ mpg.
It hasn't always been the case though - we had an E36 320i as a pool car at work which wouldn't do more than 25 mpg unless you drove like Miss Daisy. Then you got about 28. They lumped it on me for 2 weeks once, and it skinted me.
Interestingly, I have the smaller brother of the Focus ST's engine in my 2.0T Volvo S60. Although smaller and less powerful, it's actually in a slightly higher state of tune in terms of specific output, and is in a significantly bigger, heavier bodyshell, yet returns 30 mpg without even trying, and 34 mpg if driven gently.
Cheers
DP
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I've not done the sums but it seems perverse to think that, having bought a moderately fuel-hungry (but not ruinously so - we're not in Jensen Interceptor territory here) car, the best thing to do is to sell it at a big loss in a buyer's market, and hope to make up the difference by buying something more economical.
OK, let's do some sums: suppose I have a Focus ST that does 7 miles on a litre (31 mpg) on a long motorway commute - that's about 17p a mile at today's petrol prices; would I be better off swapping it for a diesel car that can do 10 miles on a litre (45 mpg), and so cost 13p a mile? Even over 20,000 miles, the payback is only £800, so it's hard to see how taking a hit like that can make financial sense. Looks like panic to me.
Me? I'd love a Focus ST. I've ridden in a friend's, and it's fantastically civilized and comfortable for something so rapid. Probably not as sensible as my diesel S60 for my long motorway trips, but if they go on getting cheaper...
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Reading about your diesel S60 and the Focus ST in one paragraph has me thinking of a FANTASTIC idea for a Focus ST TDCi......
Cheers
DP
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Hi,
I had an ST and changed it for a Focus 2.0 litre Zetec TDCi sport as my Mrs is learning to drive and can't drive an ST for at least a year. With some mods this will probably match the ST on performance and torque but still do 51mpg! or better! I averaged 23 on the my old ST but felt it needed modifying (remap etc) to get the best out of it.
Still I loved the ST to bits mostly for the refinements and driving experience. I will be getting another and keeping the TDCi for family outings, commuting and long trips.
Still the trade in was poor. Lots of these cars around now.
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>>Focus 2.0 litre Zetec TDCi sport .... With some mods this will probably match the ST on performance and torque <<
I've got some magic beans for sale.
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I've not done the sums but it seems perverse to think that having bought a moderately fuel-hungry car the best thing to do is to sell it at a big loss in a buyer's market and hope to make up the difference by buying something more economical.
--it's hard to see how taking a hit like that can make financial sense. Looks like panic to me.
Too true.
I spent £15k on a 3 year old BMW 325C1 auto two years ago and am going to be stuffed or £415 VED next year, but that's 'only' about £160 above the next lower band which, over, say, 5 years is insignificant compared to the loss incurred if I sold the car now.
In 5 years it'll be worth about 50p anyway.
Incidentally, last week on a 300 mile run up the A1, keeping to around 65-75 mph It achieved 38.6mpg which was pleasing.
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I spent £15k on a 3 year old BMW 325C1 auto two years ago
Incidentally last week on a 300 mile run up the A1 keeping to around 65-75 mph It achieved 38.6mpg which was pleasing.
I've just had the same thing - I drove my 530i Sport to Worcester on Monday and then down to Southampton that evening. From Exeter to Worcester on the M5 it recorded 39.2mpg - a simply astonishing figure for a 3.0 24v 231bhp engine hauling a 1600kg 5 Series. All I did was set the cruise to an indicated 71mph which was a GPS verified 67mph. So not even THAT slow.
I then drove through Worcester at rush hour, back to the M5 via Malvern, and then down to Southampton with a little less concern for economy (Although still not stupid speed) and this took the average down to 35.7mpg.
I was considering the possibility that the fuel computer was inaccurate, so I tested it by brimming the tank, driving for 70 miles, and then brimming it again. The result? The fuel computer disagreed with the true consumption by just 0.2mpg.
I did unfortunately only manage 31.7mpg from Southampton to Plymouth yesterday but...
a) The roads were quiet, with therefore many overtaking opportunities
b) The entire route contains just 10 miles of Motorway
c) Sometimes you've got to ignore the fuel economy and enjoy that Straight Six ;)
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BMW are producing some extraordinary numbers now (the latest direct-injection version of the 3.0 six is a remarkable blend of high power, low emissions and good economy), but even so the ST is below average for the hot hatch class.
The 2.3 four in my Mazda 3 MPS is easily 5mpg better than the ST in the real world, despite being 35bhp and 45lb/ft-odd better endowed - it doesn't sound as nice though. Direct injection in petrol turbos has real benefits.
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>...a FANTASTIC idea for a Focus ST TDCi...
Nah, not a TDCi - give it the D5! As I understand, it's pretty well the same block as the 2.5 petrol, so it ought to fit. (Still getting used to the sound of the 4-cylinder Toyota diesel in our Verso; it goes well enough but five cylinders sound so much nicer than four.)
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There is a D5 S40 Volvo based on the Focus 2 chassis available. Though being a Volvo, its possible its setup more for comfort than a Focus.
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Yes, but last time I looked, it was available only with the Geartronic auto - which ruined a perfectly decent S60 D5 the one time I tried it. (I know others here like it but...)
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According to Parkers (not sure how accurate they are), there is a manual S40 D5 :
D5 R DESIGN Sport 4d. Though very new, and I'd imagine very pricey too.
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D5 R DESIGN Sport 4d. Though very new and I'd imagine very pricey too.
About £17.2k delivered from Drivethedeal, which doesn't sound too bad(?).
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>> D5 R DESIGN Sport 4d. Though very new and I'd imagine very pricey too. About £17.2k delivered from Drivethedeal which doesn't sound too bad(?).
Sorry- that's a 2.0D. D5 is £18k.
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Hmmm that's not too bad considering what you get. Wonder how they depreciate.
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Hmmm - so there is. And I see you can have that combination as a C30 too. Planning to keep the S60 going for another year or two yet, though. After that, who knows?
Anyway, over to someone else to steer us back on track.
};---)
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>...a FANTASTIC idea for a Focus ST TDCi... Nah not a TDCi - give it the D5!
That's what I meant. I just guess Ford would badge any diesel TDCi nowadays, whoever makes its engine.
That would be a very quick, very frugal, and I suspect, very popular car.
Didn't the 5 pot Volvo diesel engine originate from an Audi design? I'm sure I read that somewhere.
Cheers
DP
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Nah. The D5 is pretty much the old Volvo 2.4T 5 pot petrol, with a revised head to increase compression and glow plugs instead of spark plugs! The 5 cylinder petrol units are so strong anyway (to handle the off beat 5 pot vibrations) that it didn't require much work to be turned into a diesel. That heritage means the D5 one of the very few diesel engines around to have an alloy block rather than an iron one as almost all 4 pot diesels have. This helps keep the engine nice and light.
The old Audi 2.5 5 pot TDI was used by Volvo until the D5 came along.
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Didn't the 5 pot Volvo diesel engine originate from an Audi design? I'm sure I read that somewhere.
>>
No but you were close but Volvo used a 2.5 5cyl Audi engine from the A100 in the 850/V70 for a while.
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Imagine going to those lengths to ensure the entire 850/V70 range was 5 cylinder... Under Ford ownership, they would have just stuffed any old 4 pot diesel under the bonnet....Just like they have with the new V70 and S80...
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>>a FANTASTIC idea for a Focus ST TDCi......
Yup, as long as they don't badge it "STD"
Get my coat?
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A neighbour has owned an ST for less than 6 months. It gets chopped tomorrow for a facelifted Focus 2.0TDCi. 20-25 mpg round town and increased VED from next year are two of the reasons, plus as Avant said earlier though some people don't think. He bought a three door and they struggle to get their two year old in and out of the car seat.
He swapped a Vectra 2.2 petrol for an Astra 1.6 as fuel costs were too high on the Vectra, after a couple of months he swapped the Astra for the ST as the Astra wasn't powerful enough for him and it suffered clutch judder.
I knew this was coming as he asked me a couple of weeks ago what VED I paid for the A3 and he looked surprised when I said £135 (now £145).
I think the ST was a "heart ruling head" moment, but there will be another on the Ford dealership forecourt in a few days to join the half a dozen already there.
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I considered a nearly-new 5-door ST early last year. I had a test drive in one and it did go very nicely, although the example I drove suffered from bad torque-steer, which may or may not be typical but was a bit off-putting.
After making some enquires about fuel consumption I decided against it. Good job too given what's happened to petrol prices! I bet these cars are suffering stinging depreciation right now.
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What About Evo's? I pass a used 4x4 garage on my way to work every day, 2 weeks ago he only had large off roaders, since then there has been a new evo added to the forecourt nearly everyday, all priced between 5-8k, not had a chance to stop and have a look yet.
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It may also be savvy owners getting rid while they can still get something for them before the arrival of the hot RS Focus.
Not sure who will want a 225 ST when there will be a 280 RS.
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I wouldn't want one, 225 or 280, don't see the point of the 280 RS, the yobs already go hunting after dark for the ST, the RS will be even more temptation.
I knew someone who got rid of their ST because he noticed people hanging around it after dark and it was parked on his driveway. This affected his sleep and so be decided to exchange for a more sensible Focus, no more hangers around and happy sleep times.
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I wouldn't want one 225 or 280 don't see the point of the 280 RS the yobs already go hunting after dark for the ST the RS will be even more temptation.
Yes. Haven't been in one but since the consensus is that Focuses handle, and this is the quick one, it's probably an excellent machine for making rapid, relatively invisible progress.
Or it would be if it didn't look like that. I can just see plod pricking up his ears when he sees one, as well as all the joyriding toerags.
Used to be the Sierra Cosworth no one would insure because of them. But toerags were toerags in those days. Now it's every snotnose with a baseball cap. The democratisation of petty crime. It had to come
:o}
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I used to live in an area of Oxford notorious for joyriding in the early 90's, and frankly I have seen no circumstances since which get close to those in terms of a car being unsafe.
I was selling Fords for a living at the time, and one slow Sunday afternoon, took a Fiesta RS Turbo out to a potential client for a test drive. Not much going on back at base, and it wasn't too far from home, so I decided to pop in and see the folks for a coffee on the way back. The car had been on the drive for all of ten minutes before it had a known (to me) joyrider sniffing around it. He walked off, and ten minutes later, came back with a couple of mates. I have no doubt had that car been left there overnight, it would have been away by dawn. I know countless people who had hot hatches stolen within 24 hours of purchase. Heck, we had a Cosworth stolen off the forecourt that had been blocked in by five cars. Next morning, no Cosworth, and two Mondeos and three Escorts needing new door locks.
The only difference really was that people kicking your front door in to get keys was unheard of, but then with your Cosworths, RS Turbos and GTEs being stealable with not much more than a screwdriver and a pocket slide hammer, I suppose there wasn't much need. The average modern car requires intelligence way beyond the level of your typical chav to drive away without keys, so when it does happen, it tends to involve violence or threat of violence to get keys.
Car theft and joyriding is still a big problem (do a 'joyriders' search on YouTube for evidence - some of it is heartbreaking), but the likes of an ST is, I think, more likely to be targeted by professional crims in the ringing trade or after a getaway car. There are fewer of them, but they are much more dangerous if they do decide to pick on you. Back in the day, no hot hatch was safe, ever, hence the insurance premiums. I was quoted 3 grand TPFT on a grand's worth of XR2 back then!
Cheers
DP
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>>>Yup, as long as they don't badge it "STD"
Subscriber Trunk Dialing - what's worng with that?
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It hasn't always been the case though - we had an E36 320i as a pool car at work which wouldn't do more than 25 mpg unless you drove like Miss Daisy. Then you got about 28. They lumped it on me for 2 weeks once and it skinted me.
The 320i/520i always had to be revved hard to get it to go. The 325i/525i were much much better for fuel economy - by about 5mpg I reckon (I've owned a few of each).
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To answer the OP I think the problem is that ST owners fall into 2 distinct camps:
- the rich ST owners who bought one as the latest toy are just bored and are moving on to something new now;
- the hard-up ST owners (the younger ones who could just stretch to it) are being crippled by fuel costs, dropping off their fixed rate mortgage deals, cutbacks in overtime at work, etc etc etc.....
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