First again (following headgaskets) with possible `braking`news on the 500. (trumpet sounding;)
HJ, Can `little Mouse` throw out the anchor from the passenger seat?
tinyurl.com/6ewk9j
Needs confirming or deleting of course.
Regards
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Interesting that you bring this up.
A couple of months back my 17-year-old son and I went to look at the 500. To cut short a long story neither of us was much impressed by it (my lad dismissed it as a girls car). We did however end up test driving a Panda diesel. My son noted that he could 'feel' me operating the brakes through the front passenger carpet and there was indeed quite a loud 'knock' from inside the car, passenger side, everytime that I took my foot off the brake pedal. There is obviously some kind of link rod under the carpet there on the Panda and the 500 seems to be the same.
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Just got the message "Service Unavailable" when tinyurl did its redirecting to the Fiat forum.
{Appears to work ok now. The fiat forum server must have been busy earlier}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 03/06/2008 at 01:40
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I really don't like this remote operation of the brakes.
IIRC the mk3 escorts had a similar system , but by rods the other side of the bulkhead, no doubt there's been other examples too, didn't golfs have a similar system?
By the time the vehicles a few years old the minute amounts of play in each of the pivot points must make a difference to the amount of direct movement at the master cylinder.
I'm not saying they're unsafe, but just something else to wear and go wrong.
I suppose we'll be having electric braking systems soon, well i won't but some will.
Still don't like electric handbrakes either.
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Golfs, or maybe Polos, had exactly the same issue well over 20 years ago.
The key words for a 'new' design or process are "Why will it be different this time?"
Edited by Bromptonaut on 02/06/2008 at 23:16
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I once had a Golf (in the early '80's) and I'm pretty sure that the connecting rod was in the engine compartment and not inside the car.
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This is a longstanding feature of small Fiats including the New Panda, Cinquecento, Seicento but not, as far as I know, the old Panda as it did not have a brake servo.
This, I think, is the problem, that the servo cannot be moved to the off side of the car to suit RHD, hence the force on the pedal needs to be transferred across the car.
The whole set up is heavily engineered and rarely gives trouble but can allow a passenger to apply the brakes.
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but can allow a passenger to apply the brakes.>>
Sounds eminently sensible to me....:-)
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and rarely gives trouble but can allow a passenger to apply the brakes.
Very reassuring. LOL!
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>>...but not, as far as I know, the old Panda as it did not have a brake servo.
from 1993 -2003(?) the old Panda had a servo. For the first few months the servo was on the UK drivers side, and made it a bit congested there. It was soon moved to the other side where it lived under the spare wheel..
I've just had a look at a 1994 example and the cross bar is inside the car, but the actuating arm on the passenger side is under a steel cover so you can't press it from there.
Perhaps the accountants have had a look at the part count.
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What do you expect from a cheaply made Italian car?
MVP
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My C5 has a big metal rod across the bulkhead to link the brake pedal to the master cylinder. Fortunately it's hidden behind the dash. Photo here for anybody bored enough to look - www.flickr.com/photos/7328220@N02/2530501949/
Steve.
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I had a G-reg Saab 9000 which had a steel tube doing the same job; it was tucked quite far up under the dashboard IIRC so it could not have been pressed by a passenger.
I only found out when I had to adjust the switch for the 3rd brake light, which was also in the passenger footwell.
For another footwell issue: a mate of mine had a TVR Chimaera which had some electrics behind the carpet in the passenger footwell (might have been immobiliser related?). A friend accidentally kicked it before they went out for a drive and it took them a week to get the car started again..
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Can't help wondering if HJ has noticed this hasty bit of design, doubtless soon to be improved, or whether his 500 is a left-hand drive example.
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I have not noticed any deterioration in the quality of the linkage in the Escort, I think they are built to last.
The can however have a significant affect on the effect of the servo. When Dad was working for Lockheed a few decades ago, they had a manufacturer wanting to fit said linkage for RHD conversion. An engineer then pointed out that they could install a smaller servo, thus fitting it behind the engine on the right-hand side, and keeping the same braking assistance as they would have had they moved the servo and install the linkage.
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Presumably the new Ford Ka (a reskinned Fiat 500 with largely Fiat mechanicals and made in the same factory) will also feature this useful dual control.
Great for driving schools.
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Perhaps the plastic box is easily dislodged and lost. The OP sounded like that.
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