Hi everyone!
I've ALWAY fancied an Alfa Romeo 156/159... but have been seriously scared off with the stories of Alfa's reliability.
I know a new guy has taken over at Alfa (German chap from BMW) - can anyone tell me whether Alfa's are more reliable now - would YOU buy one?!
I'd love a petrol, but I'm told the diesels seem more reliable plus there is the added bonus of better fuel consumption and torque.
PLEASE can some of you tell me what you think of the 156/159 reliability... shall I take the plunge? Shall I go for a 159 rather than a late 156?
Can anyone give me an indication on how much the cam belts are to change?
...& who knows what the differences are between the Lusso's, Veloce's etc.?
Sorry for so many questions...!
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I've only had indirect experience with two Alfas, both 156 models on 51 plates.
One, a 2.5 V6 Veloce Sportwagon was a paragon of reliability. Literally. A good friend of mine bought it at a year old with 12,000 miles on the clock, and sold it last year (for a people carrier - sob) with 75,000 miles on the clock. It literally never let him down, and only needed a couple of minor things.
The other was a 2.0 Twin Spark saloon which was run by a colleague at work on the car allowance scheme. It was a total liability, to the extent that he ended the lease early because the thing was constantly off the road, not helped by the fact that the dealers never had the parts in stock to complete the repairs. I don't recall the complete list of woes, but I know it had recurring problems with driveshaft joints, and transmission oil leaks, and the entire engine was stripped and rebuilt twice. It was major stuff, not just niggles.
Like most cars, I think you get good and bad ones. Buying used, look for a car that's had a private owner for a reasonable amount of time (people don't keep dogs for long), and check the service history in detail for what's been done.
Cheers
DP
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Thank you DP - you've been very helpful!
You're right though - one car can be a diamond and another can be a dog.
I currently have a Mondeo TDCI 130 on a 52 plate with 130k on the clock and it's never let me down except for little wear and tear items - but a friend of mine got rid of his due to electrical gremlins, a blown turbo at 40k etc etc.
I really want an Alfa and maybe I should take the plunge - you only live once they say!
It's either that, or may go for a SAAB 9-3 diesel... but it's not as drop dead gorgeous as the Alfa!
It'll be interesting to see what other people think of the Alfa's too...
Thanks again and all the best,
Tony.
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Umm if your considering a SAAB which is a GM Vectra in a different suit then maybe Alfa isn't for you. Although the 1.9 SAAB diesel is the Fiat GM joint build.
The Alfa is going to require looking after, a lot of the Alfa stories come from early 156's which did have issues, also a lot of company car owners regard bonnets as screwed down, only to be opened by dealers. Alfa's can use oil & it does need checking regularly. Generally 156 very reliable, MAF's go (Bosch part) & suspension joints & bushes can cause hassle. Find either a good dealer or a good recommended specialist. try www.alfaowner.com for the real issues rather than bar room chat.
Alfa's feel very special, it's a style & design issue. My 156 used to blow the german equivalents away & friends were always impressed by the interior & the way it went.
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If you get a good example, and you look after it yourself, you will have as reliable a car as from any other marque - and it'll look and feel a lot better.
I had an Alfa 145 cloverleaf for 3 years (taking it to over 100,000 miles) , and had no problems. I currently have a 156 GTA, which I have owned for 15 months, and is on 60,000 miles, and have had no problems.
And 'looking after' doesn't mean anything ridiculous. Service it according to schedule (especially making sure belts are changed when they should be) check the oil level every couple of weeks (some of them can use a bit of oil, but if you keep them topped up they're fine) and you'll be laughing.
Also, I believe that at least some of the 159 engine have camchains, not belts. Not sure which ones though.
Go for it - how many mainstream cars are there out there which make you look back and grin when you park them up and walk away?
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I've had a number of Alfas as rental cars including a 156, 159 and a Brera. Styling wise they make a BMW 3 series look like a Morris Marina. Get in and the styling story continues, especially in that wonderful tan leather trim. Turn the key and, assuming it's a 2 litre twin spark, you start to wonder why you would want anything else. However, spend some time with an Alfa and the gloss starts to fade. The Brera doesn't handle like you think it should, though the 156 and 159 are exceptional, almost as good as the aforementioned 3 Series (in my opinion obviously).
It's the small ergonomic things that grate though. The bizarre driving positions, tiny mirrors, blind spots, nonintuituve switchgear and instrument obscuring steering wheels to which Alfa officiandos will say "character" but long distance drivers will reply "annoying". Still, my neighbour has just bought a 159 Estate in Ferrari red and it is stunning. I would say try before you buy.
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As with all Italian cars they need servicing on the dot. Scrimping on services really is false economy.
You've pretty much made up your mind which models you would like, test drive them both and see what suits you better. Sign up to the Alfa owners club and find a recommended local dealer or independent who can look after your pride and joy. Some dealers do more harm than good and charge the earth for the privilege.
Don't go for the SAAB if you really want an Alfa as you would be buying the same 1.9 diesel oily bits as previously mentioned.
Lusso is the luxury model, Veloce the sport (now replaced by TI) and I forget what the other one is (think it may be blank these days) which is your entry level model.
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My father drove Alfa's all his life, geat cars during the 60's and 70's not so great now. In Italy you can get discounts of up to 20% on a new Alfa & mainly see kids who cannot afford a series 1 BMW or Golf driving them. Alfa's reliability is terrible as is their post sales support. Buying an Alfa is like playing russian roulette, sooner or later you are going to get scr*wed. Remember that Alfa is owned by Fiat (First In All Troubles) which tells you all you need to know.
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You aren't in the 'all Rovers are rubbish' club as well are you :)
Edited by midlifecrisis on 27/05/2008 at 12:00
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Surprise, surprise. Someone who has never owned a modern Alfa knows all about them. These people always appear whenever anyone mentions Alfa on here, to point out how right they were to pick their boring Eurobox over something with a bit of soul.
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Actualy, I speak from experience having owned a 147 & yes all car makes have their good and bad points. Here in Italy you can ask anybody on the street about Alfa and they will make the same comments as I have.
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Well I've had an Alfa for nearly 5 years in total now - with a Fiat Coupe (about as close to an Alfa as it's possible to get) for two years in between.
At what point am I going to get screwed?
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that Alfa is owned by Fiat (First In All Troubles) which tells you all you need to know.
Fiat has come a long way recently, and I don't think that's a fair comment. I think something like a Panda is probably more reliable than most French cars (eg. Peugeot/Citroen). I'm not sure what Alfa's like these days though.
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As mentioned above join www.alfaowner.com and www.alfa156.net and you will get some good info / advice.
My experience has been pretty good. I would say the facelifted (2003 onwards) 156 does seem better built. The diesels and V6's are very reliable. The TS needs care on the cambelt / variator.
Suspension bushes are the main problem - but again these can be sorted relatively easily - especially if you fiit uprated items.
Mine has been excellent with the only failure being a (BOSCH) Turbo pressure sensor needing replacing in my ownership. My car has done 95k, and I love it. Comfortable, quick, reliable, good economy, nice interior, looks and sounds great.
2004 156 2.4 JTD SW (175)
Edited by Shaz {p} on 27/05/2008 at 12:13
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i bought my gtv 3.0 v6 new in 19999 and its been perfect ever since but it only does 4k a year. will sell it soon as some of the rubber suspension joints look a little worn now. fantastic engine but wont buy another alfa as i dont like any of their new cars
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Just wanted to say a BIG thank you to everyone who has replied... hopefully, more people will add their comments too.
Thanks again all!
Tony.
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Interesting thread this. Just to be clear about things upfront, I love cars. I have always wanted an Alfa or a Jag. For reasons too boring for here I have not yet managed to achieve either ambition. Anyway, I'm sort of restricted because the realities of my life are such that I really need the loadspace of an estate and the economy of a diesel. Not a good combination in the sexy car stakes I know.
However, about 18 months ago I went car shopping with a definate plan to come home having signed up either for an Alfa 159 sportwagon or an X-type estate. Test drove both and have to say they were both very good. The Alfa won hands down in the beauty contest but the Jag probably felt more involving on the road. The thing was, in reality, neither car felt nearly as special as I had imagined it would. Whether I was hoping for some kind of revelation by comparison to my current car (Mondeo Ghia X estate) or what, I don't really know. What I can tell you is that as previously stated, they were good, but frankly not measureably better in any way I could quantify than the car I already had. Bit disappointing really for two such iconic brands. Sure, either one would have had a better "image" but for me they would have to have more of an advantage than a certain Emperor's set of new clothes in order to open my wallet.
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In 2000 I came very close to buying a 2.0 GTV (funds wouldn't run to a 3litre). I remember grinning from ear to ear after driving it, the direct go-kart like steering was a revelation after the SAAB 900. I was all set to sign on the dotted line when I spotted a newly unloaded FIAT Coupe 20v turbo for the same money.
Same direct steering but 220PS vs 150PS. FIAT won that day.
When I bought the S60, a 159 2.4 diesel was in my mind but the thought of SWMBO driving it and two under three's let lose on an Italian interior steered me away again. One day, I will own an Alfa.
Getting back to the OP's original post I find cars are only as good as the maintenance. I have owned all the supposedly bad Italian and French cars and the only time I have been left stranded was after the Coupe's engine was rebuilt and a turbo hose blew off on the M1. Hardly the manufacturers fault.
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I'm very tempted to get a 147 (150-bhp diesel version). Sat in it yesterday, and it honestly felt every bit as well built as my 2006 A3.
I just really don'tknow wether I have the guts to genuinely buy one- it looks stunning and stands out but not in a "look at me" way. Just subtle style!
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