Couldn't agree more. A few brittle plastic clips badly positioned doesn't sound like 'over engineering' to me.
But then, I've never owned a Ford. ;-)
Edited by mike hannon on 22/05/2008 at 18:42
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An elegant design was the light lenses on Rover 2000s with those little tags on top so you coud see from the driver's seat if a bulb was out.
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Wow people get uptight quick?
I had to use a manufacturer name (now deleted) to be able to post and it happened to be a Ford! that I was working on.
I drive (currently) anything from the folowing, rover, honda,
vauxhall, nissan and renault. I am a mechanic, small (one man band) trader so its what i have that i drive. All of them suffer from design faults of some sort.
Believe it or not no manufacturer (including ford) is immune from it!
I just happened to be working on a ford.
And if design is not engineered? then what is it? :)
And regards front lamps it has been covered a lot before; but I was amazed and annoyed at how difficult a simple stop light bulb was on a modern car! In 2 years more time when the screws have rusted in and the plastic balljoint breaks it will be a nightmare job for the diy man at home.
And I dont slag off your jobs when 1 man bands get heavy flak. Think on ?
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Frequently, the faults on modern cars which cause maintenance difficulties are caused by designers concentrating on ergonomic, aesthetics and production costs. In laymans terms it looks good, feels good and is cheap to build.
For example; the "Rubbolite" lenses were for years the market leaders in truck lighting. All the driver had to do to change a bulb was pull the lens away from its rubber mount, hence the name; no screwdrivers, pliers, sledgehammers or fitter needed. Downside was they were relatively expensive,looked ugly and got nicked easily by less scrupulous drivers who'd forgotten to replace one.
New truck lenses (and many on cars) require the driver (who by rights is responsible for changing bulbs) to carry a Torx driver to get at the bulb. Not a simple flat-bladed screwdriver, and do you know why? It's because the human operatives who made the lenses have been replaced with machines, which can't deal with "ordinary" screws.
Manufacturers have forgotten the virtue of simplicity.
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Seconded Harleyman.
To be fair though, these new led trailer lights do seem to be quite rugged, haven't got the foggiest whats involved in changing one though, but they've been trouble free for 2 and a bit years and 237k, so not bad by any means, says he and they'll all blow tomorrow.
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I know that you and GB aren't going to like this Harleyman, but, If I were running a fleet, I would welcome the torx screws as a means for keeping drivers out of lamp fittings. Both as a measure to reduce lens theft, and also to reduce the clumsy fitting of bulbs - single contact bulbs forced into double contact holders, etc. I would be much happier with them just filling in a defect sheet when they see a defect on the vehicle.
For a brief period, my father asked his drivers to perform simple vehicle checks - the costs soon mounted up, and the work was passed back to the workshop staff!
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I take your point NC, and as a former fitter I've seen (and repaired at ungodly hours) the results of wrong bulb fitment myself; however I don't think you or your Dad would be half as happy to get a call from a driver at 3 in the morning saying the bobbies had just stopped him and would you send the fitter out 50 miles each way 'cos I've been pulled up and they won't let me go till I've got two rear lights!
Defect sheets are all very well provided the defect is there when the driver checks his vehicle.
The answer to that, as we both know, is train and equip your drivers properly, they're not all idiots even though some employers treat them as such! ;-)
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I'll assume that some of us do have the common to count the number of contacts on a bulb NC, and to read the side of the bulb to check its not 12v.
In the early 80's i would run empty from Widness or Birkenhead (leather waste, another industry gone) to Calverton Colliery or Coalite (remembered fondly) or similar for a load of coal back down. Now with an empty tipper trailer the run across has been known to blow 6 out of the 8 bulbs (in those days) on a trailer (yes my boss bought thousands from that new at the time Yorkshire bulb maker instead of the quality lucas bulbs that cost a little more, but lasted months instead of minutes), it would be quite amusing to have a fitter following me around all day, shoving bulbs in at traffic lights etc.
Did your father have 'new blood' drivers, as us 'been through the mill' older school have been doing minor and running repairs for years.
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In terms of experience, the drivers were a mixture, with some having long and wide experience, with others who were put through their HGV by the company. Being based in a small villiage, my father would employ a man from the villiage if at all possible, and this was the main source for the "new blood" drivers.
One or two of our drivers were up to doing basic work on the trucks, but some of the more ham fisted ones were prone to doing more damage than good.
Probably, today's solution would be LEDs. I would be surprised if they don't last for the life of the vehicle.
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I had to use a manufacturer name (now deleted) to be able to post
That only applies in Tech Matters. Here in discussion you only need to choose a category or make/model to be able to post. In most cases it'll be just a category, unless there is a reason to include a make/model.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 23/05/2008 at 01:34
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Many modern cars are like of today are like computer printers. Damn cheap to buy but when cartridge replacement time comes, you'll discover that you'd be better of buying a whole new printer again :)
Some cases manufactures made it complex but in other cases consumers wanted it to be like this.
Make headlamp change too easy, it will be frequently nicked. Make it too complex - people will moan why they need to pay dealer £50-£100 for changing bulbs. It's very difficult to draw an exact borderline which will make everyone happy.
Take another example, repairing ABS often costs considerable amount of money. ABS is not required by law. Yet, all manufactures provide it anyway - if they not, consumers will assume that they are getting a dangerous vehicle by modern standard.
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>>ABS is not required by law.
I think you'll find that it's difficult for a volume manufacturer to sell a car without ABS, since 2004, it's been a legal requirement.
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