Realising that the official mpg figures are not realistic, what can I expect from the Avensis petrol engines?
Is there any evidence of unreliability from the Toyota diesels, having just read the backroom horror stories about other popular diesels (mondeo, et al).
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Had a 1.8 T3 Auto as a hire car today. It had only covered 420 miles this morning, now has 660 on it. Driven mostly on dual carriageways and motorways at 80-85 and returned 35mpg. Not bad considering size/power available.
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I don't think Toyota diesels have any endemic problems. Choose according to your preference (more low-down torque with a diesel), and annual mileage (the higher it is, the better value you'll get from a diesel).
Edited by Avant on 28/11/2007 at 21:35
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Got delivery of a D4D (1998cc) 2 weeks ago and am getting 50mpg (over 1,000 miles covered). Have to say that I'm really impressed with the diesel - very very quiet engine - tyre noise is all you hear - and acceleration is pretty good.
If I didn't know it was diesel, I would have thought it was petrol given the noise and acceleration.
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Choose according to your preference (more low-down torque with a diesel)
But remember that torque at the engine isn't the same as torque at the driving wheels. The higher gearing of a diesel offsets engine torque advantage.
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L\'escargot.
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But remember that torque at the engine isn't the same as torque at the driving wheels. The higher gearing of a diesel offsets engine torque advantage.
L'escargot this has been discussed before and that is absolute rubbish, the higher gearing offsets the higher torque only to a very small degree.
Re horror stories Mondeo et al, there are so many Mondeo diesels on the road some will suffer issues and those that do will naturally gravitate to a site like this. In fact if you Google "TDCi problems" it is this site that you find so it is not the tip of a bigger iceberg. Accordingly I dont think there is any statistical evidence to suggest that other diesels are more reliable, in fact the Reliability Index (see link right) suggests that Toyotas suffer a higher percentage of both engine and fuel system problems than Ford, have a higher average repair cost and a longer average time off the road.
Not trying to put you off a Toyota diesel, rather to put it into perspective, the 2.2 T180 is a great engine albeit a little torque shy at low revs compared to some.
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Just further to my response to "supermarket fuels" on another thread but I really have to "stick up" for Mondeo diesels. I have had several of them over very high mileages and not one of them has .....ever.....let me down. My current one has 130k mls on and has had no maintenance costs apart from normal servicing and tyres. Every major component is original ( setting aside consumables such as brake pads and such ).
It , as with its two Mk3 predessors and four Mk 2's appears to be mechanically "bulletproof". I really don't know what all the fuss is about, several friends of mine have them and not one of them has ever had a moments bother. I suspect it's a bit like any "news" , we only seem to be told the bad stuff. Good news just doesn't register as readily on the collective conciousness.
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The best layman's guide to the long term prospects of a diesel lies in the local taxi rank. These guys are a closed community and word gets around. They also cover huge mileages in short time periods so the junk is quickly found out.
Although taxi operators buy at a discount, a poor diesel costs them money and doesn't get purchased again, so longevity and operating costs tend to outweigh purchase price.
Locally - Skoda, Toyota and VW appear to get the business with a few old PSA 406s running around. I've not seen any later PSA vehicles.
Ford and GM are conspicuous by their absence.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 29/11/2007 at 10:58
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That is a good guide generally, but I think other factors also come into affect - cost price of car (which is why you will find lots of Octavia) - they are a good workhorse and usually cheaper then other cars to buy.
In Nottingham (private hire Taxi), you see the usual Avensis (lots of petrol, a few diesels), a few Passat's, Octavia, 406's, and Mondeo TDCi's.
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04 Alfa Romeo 156 SW JTD 20v - Loving it.
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The best layman's guide to the long term prospects of a diesel lies in the local taxi rank. >> Ford and GM are conspicuous by their absence.
Not here, Mondeos, also new Galaxys and a lot of Sharalambralaxys of various ages.
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Forgot to mention vectra (mostly petrols, a few of the old new shape, old engine dti's, some new ones) a few S-max Tdci's and Galaxys as Chedder says (older model).
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04 Alfa Romeo 156 SW JTD 20v - Loving it.
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The diesel faults on this site are a worry. But I have a diesel Passat, Focus, Landrover Defender, combine harvester and three tractors. None of these has had a problem with their fuel systems. Of course I use quality fuel and oil.
A friend has a diesel Avensis and is very pleased with it. I reckon the tyres (Chinese) are very noisy and there is not enough headroom in the back, but apart from that it seems OK and was built about 5 miles from where I live.
He gets about 45 mpg from it, so my advice is go diesel.
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My Company Car is an Avensis 2.2 Diesel and it is absolutely fantastic, you can easily acheive 50 mpg and more if you go easy on the accelarator, but the performance is spectacular and will cruise all day ( in France ) at 100mph, I've found it very comfortable, well equipped, especially compared to an Audi or Passat, and never had any problems, this is my second Toyota, the previous 2.0 D4D was not as economical or quick, so go for a nearly new 2.2 D4D and you'll be very happy.
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......will cruise all day ( in France ) at 100mph
if you cruise in France at 100mph all day , surely the Gendarmes will have you?, the motorways have spped cameras, and theirs are well hidden
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If mpg and costs are the main factor, Kingslea, go by your annual mileage. Anything over 15,000 and a diesel is worth considering. If you prefer the way a diesel drives to a petrol then go for it anyway if you can afford the extra purchase price.
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Bearing in mind that the extra cost of a 2.0 diesel Avensis is only £500 above the 1.8 petrol (or was in April when I bought mine) I would suggest that the break even point is much earlier than it is for many other makes so I would say yes, buy the diesel.
Especially so considering the reputation the 1.8 petrol has for consuming oil from 40000 miles on.
Its quiet smooth and economical, and there are very few threads on BR about people having trouble with them.
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>>if you cruise in France at 100mph all day , surely the Gendarmes will have you?, the motorways have spped cameras, and theirs are well hidden
Not in my recent experience on the A16. You don't have to do it all day TBH - just a quick and slightly extended "blast" at an inappropriate moment and you can expect to see an Impreza flash past you and then flash "Suivez Moi" at you - 10 minutes at the next services and 90 euros later you're on your way once the genadarmes have dealt with the local interest in the liveried Imprezas.
PS having the same "marque" - Legacy, cuts no moutarde!
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Well in fairness you can travel very swiftly in many parts of France, their speed cameras don't "get" UK motorists, they have been talking about collaborating for some time, but if you get flashed in France no action is Taken in the UK. I have been pulled over one time in the last 10 years of regularly travelling to France, and it cost me 45 Euros.
Re the Avensis, I've just been from Sheffield to Norwich and back on less than £ 30 of Diesel, and according to the computer averaged 52MPG, which is not bad considering you have to overtake quite frequently on the A 17 so you need to squeeze a bit of power out of the engine. this 2.2 Unit is one of the nicest engines you can get, in my opinion.
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Realising that the official mpg figures are not realistic
What Car did an article around a year ago on how cars matched up to their official combined figures. The Avensis 2.2 (150) was one of a tiny handful that exceeded the official figures. I seem to recall that big relatively powerful cars match the figures better than smaller cars; in the latter people drive them much harder so do not get near the mpg that is theoretically possible.
My own 2.2 Avensis averaged easily over 50mpg from new (official combined 47.9). Only since the 20000 mile service has it dropped off by a few mpg - not sure what the dealer did but it hasn't helped the fuel economy!
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