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pedestrian killed by cyclist  
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Lud
A pavement cyclist has been heavily jumped on for killing a pedestrian in Cornwall. The cyclist was going like the clappers, allegedly at 30 mph.

I have often griped here about these silently zipping yobbos and hoodies.

In fact only an hour or so ago let out an expletive at a spotty 16-year-old who came at me wearing a hood and looking over his shoulder. I then had to apologise to the pretty girl on her mobile clip-clipping down the same bit of pavement within the scattergun range of my oath. The fact that these whippersnappers are quite good at what they do and have quick reactions is really beside the point. They are dangerous.

And on the way back from the shop damn me if two more going at the rate of knots didn't whip past me from behind.

Speaking as one verging on middle age, let me here and now urge those over 50 or so to heed this advice: walk in a straight line on pavements without zigzagging or staggering or lurching. It could mean a shattered elbow or worse.

Edited by PoloGirl on 16/11/2007 at 21:46

Tags: driving insurance claims

pedestrian killed by cyclist - Manatee
Lud, you've left me wondering from which side you are verging on middle age...

I agree that if you want to swerve about on pavements, as when driving a car you need a rear view mirror.

Edited by Manatee on 16/11/2007 at 20:36

pedestrian killed by cyclist - Chris White
Speaking as a cyclist myself, something does need to be done about riding on the pavement (there's a one way round outside where I work, but that doesn't stop them cycling down the pavement at a rate of knots the wrong way).

Then if they do ride on the road, they seem to like to do it at night, dress in black and not put any lights on the bike, as demonstrated rather well around here.

I would suggest £30 on the spot fines or confiscating the bike.

Chris
pedestrian killed by cyclist - james86
Speaking as a cyclist myself something does need to be done about riding on the
pavement (there's a one way round outside where I work but that doesn't stop them
cycling down the pavement at a rate of knots the wrong way).


Last week I was driving in early evening (just getting dark but not really dark enough for lights) and saw a bike coming towards me on the pavement, very close to the edge. It was a narrow country type road so I was quite close to the kerb as well. I had to slow down for a gap in approaching traffic so I could move slightly out and give him some room - then on passing I saw he was a PCSO! Not setting the right example at all.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - bell boy
if you are a pedestrian just get to use an umbrella like john steed

tinyurl.com/2hh777
pedestrian killed by cyclist - J Bonington Jagworth
"use an umbrella like john steed"

Thanks for the link, BB. Nice to be reminded of the lovely Mrs Peel...

I was rather hoping it would show Steed sorting out a cyclist with his umbrella - I have more than once wanted to stick one in the spokes of a passing pavement jockey. The headline 'cyclist killed by pedestrian' might have an effect!
pedestrian killed by cyclist - lotusexige
"use an umbrella like john steed"
I've often thought that there is a market for a carbon fibre and Kevlar umbrella for the purpose
pedestrian killed by cyclist - RStead
Hi chris, im gary greens partner and i wanted to reply to you saying about the £30 fine...there is a £30 fine if you are caught on the pavement on a bike,just up to the police officer that is on duty at the time.like most they dont enforce it.
SNIPQUOTE!

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/11/2007 at 10:20

pedestrian killed by cyclist - Manatee
RStead, I'm sure I speak for all here when I say you have our utmost sympathy.

(for those who have missed the significance of RStead's post, Gary Green was the unfortunate victim of this terrible accident).
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Leif
It seems odd that he got such a light sentence. Had he been driving a car in a dangerous manner, and killed someone, the penalty would surely have been high, along the lines of a few years in prison. Why is a bike any different, given that 30mph on a pavement is reckless?

They said he had learning difficulties. So the fact that he is a bit dim means he gets off lightly? I am not sure I understand. Does that mean that when an Einstein parks on double yellow lines, (s)he gets life? Or did he not understand the concept of right and wrong, and personal responsibility? In which case he is what we used to call retarded, and presumably should not be allowed to ride a bike.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Ruperts Trooper
The law imposes a speed limit of 4mph on mobility scooters used on the pavement - shouldn't the same speed limit apply to cyclists on the pavement?
pedestrian killed by cyclist - daveyjp
What appears to have been left out of the OP thread is the fact the cyclist had behavioural and mental health problems.

Edited by daveyjp on 16/11/2007 at 21:51

pedestrian killed by cyclist - Lud
Didn't notice that daveyjp. Might help to explain the extreme nature of the event. But doesn't excuse the behaviour of some sane pavement cyclists which is dangerous.

I don't really mind cyclists taking to the pavement quite often in London. They don't want to die any more than you or me.

But they aren't always cool. They go quickly without bells or lights and startle meandering old buffers. The advice in the OP is serious.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Stuartli
I was once sworn at in a most offensive manner by a swerving cyclist riding on the pavement in my town's busiest shopping street, who came within inches of knocking me down - he had to remove the mobile phone from his ear first to make his displeasure fully known.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
pedestrian killed by cyclist - ForumNeedsModerating
They said he had learning difficulties. So the fact that he is a bit dim means he gets off lightly?

So, you'd like to see him, what, put in prison or something? If the man had learning difficulties, what sort of experience or lessons do you think he'd even understand being locked up with 'normal' prisoners? Also, calling someone with learning difficulties 'a bit dim' is highly offensive, to the people affected themselves, those whose relatives are so affected & to those who have an understanding (or compassion) of what it means.

In which case he is what we used to call retarded, and presumably should not be allowed to ride a bike.

Yeah, that's right, keep 'em locked up away from us 'normal folk' eh?. Do you suggest the same treatment for people without learning difficulties?

I am not sure I understand. Does that mean that when an Einstein parks on double yellow lines, (s)he gets life?

No, it means we make allowance & have understanding for those not blessed with the normal & expected abilities we take for granted. When you or anyone you know or care for has the misfortune to be afflicted thus, then I'm sure understanding will come.

This was a tragic accident, there's nothing to br gained by punishing the unfortunate more after the fact.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - L'escargot
As she walked from her drive onto the pavement an elderly neighbour of mine was run into by a cyclist on the pavement. She was knocked to the ground, and as well as suffering other injuries her hip was broken. Subsequently gangrene set in from which she died. The cyclist rode off and was never traced.
--
L\'escargot.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - pendulum
So, you'd like to see him, what, put in prison or something?


So what, you'd like to see him given a bike and allowed to kill again?

There should be punishment - how can you kill someone by your own recklessness and not be punished? No matter how bright or dim you are.

If his learning disabilities (doesn't everyone have at least one these days?) are really affecting his judgment so badly that he is a danger, and he has killed once, then he should be taken care of, somewhere away from the general public. I don't mean he should be shot or anything, but he should be taken care of. Padded cell?
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Derfel
"Ruth Stead, Mr Green's fiancee, said Messen's actions had "wrecked people's lives".

"He has wrecked my children's lives, they have lost a wonderful step-dad, I have lost a fiance, his family have lost a brother, a cousin, a nephew.

"We have all lost a wonderful man."

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/7098383.stm

I think some sympathy should also be afforded to the victim and his family. This is a tragic and highly unusual accident. The cyclist was prosecuted for the little used offence of "furious cycling" for which the maximum penalty is 2 years in prison.

Certainly the court must take account of the cyclist's circumstances but he was responsible for a dreadful tragedy and should have faced a prison sentence.

If it were someone driving a car down the pavement they would have locked the driver up and thrown the keys away!
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Robin Reliant
As a fully paid up lycra lout I would have to say that cyclists who ride on the pavement or jump red lights make me cringe. The police ignore pavement cycling and have done for years, which is why it is so widespread. Red light jumpers should have their bikes confiscated on the spot and crushed, as should adults who cycle on the pavement. Not only are they a menace but they foster the attitude among drivers that cyclists are a bunch of cowboys who don't deserve any respect on the road and the rest of us suffer because of it.
--
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Bromptonaut
The account on the BBC website makes clear that the rider was punished by a suspended prison sentence and a period of community service. He will have a criminal record and perhaps the community service could be, as suggested above, given supporting those injured in traffic accidents.

Crimes and accidents have victims who were loved by their families; time in prison is not to be served as a gesture of sympathy but to punish and reform. It seems the perpetrator in thiis case has shown remorse and, even after applying some scepticism for reports to the court, continues to suffer flashbacks etc

As my profile shows I'm daily commuter cyclist. The bike is a vehicle and belongs on the road, cycling on the pavement is anti social and unnecessary. But the comparison with driving a car down the pavement is false - bike and I together weigh around 70kg, car nearer two tonnes.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Roger Jones
Reminds me of a US TV cop show (NYPD Blue?) when young hero sergeant tore a sidewalk cyclist off a strip and a half. To my surprise, my partner's 14-year-old son cheered.

Cycling on the pavement is illegal and dangerous, but there are not enough deaths and injuries for the law to be enforced, and there is not enough social sensibility for the transgressors to realize that they are a widespread source of annoyance and anxiety. And how the middle classes have led the way -- well-spoken woman rides bicycle into small and crowded post-office lobby and gets stroppy when I remonstrate with her; whole family charges along pavement, forcing family (including 80-year-old grandma) out of the way and up against the wall -- but two of many examples I could cite. Just the opposite of the consideration and respect for others that lubricates most social interaction, and symptomatic of the ME--SELF--MINE culture that blights us these days.

At last, someone is speaking up:

tinyurl.com/29lrak
pedestrian killed by cyclist - milkyjoe
Cycling on the pavement is illegal and dangerous

but not as dangerous as riding them on the road, pot holes , drain covers , taxi and bus drivers . oh and some car drivers to contend with, i always ride my bike on the pavement but not at 30mph like a retard
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Robin Reliant
Pavements are for pedestrians, if you want to use them walk. Anyone who finds cycling on the roads too dangerous should sell the bike and invest in a good pair of shoes.
--
pedestrian killed by cyclist - David Horn
In some cities the relatively minor risk of a bruise from a bike/pedestrian collision is much preferable to what happens to the cyclist when a car hits them.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Leif
They said he had learning difficulties. So the fact that he is a bit dim
means he gets off lightly?
So you'd like to see him what put in prison or something? If the man
had learning difficulties what sort of experience or lessons do you think he'd even understand
being locked up with 'normal' prisoners? Also calling someone with learning difficulties 'a bit dim'
is highly offensive to the people affected themselves those whose relatives are so affected &
to those who have an understanding (or compassion) of what it means.



Firstly I think you will find that most people in prison have learning difficulties.

Secondly it is far from clear from the news report what the condition of the cyclist was and how much was due to a clever lawyer pulling out all the stops to make him look like the victim. There is a clear distinction between someone who is mentally handicapped (from for example a brain injury) and someone who really is just a bit dim and ill behaved. The report suggests that he had a 'difficult childhood' and 'behavioural problems'. I very much doubt he was what we would call mentally handicapped.

To be honest I would have thought that most people who are mentally handicapped, or retarded (whichever is the appropriate term), can understand the basics of right and wrong.

25 year ago I did some voluntary remedial teaching of two teenage girls who did nothing but run around and swear. They were little thugs who had not been instilled with any discipline. These days people would say they had 'learning difficulties' and 'behavioural problems'.
In which case he is what we used to call retarded and presumably should
not be allowed to ride a bike.
Yeah that's right keep 'em locked up away from us 'normal folk' eh?. Do you
suggest the same treatment for people without learning difficulties?
I am not sure I understand. Does that mean that when an Einstein parks
on double yellow lines (s)he gets life?
No it means we make allowance & have understanding for those not blessed with the
normal & expected abilities we take for granted. When you or anyone you know or
care for has the misfortune to be afflicted thus then I'm sure understanding will come.



If he was not mentally fit to ride a bike, then he should not have been allowed to do so. If he was fit to ride a bike, then clearly he must be held responsible for his actions.

The news report states that he had been warned that he would kill someone before he went on to kill someone.

I do not see two classes of car drivers: so-called 'normal' drivers, and drivers who we expect to drive dangerously due to a mental deficiency and hence we reduce the penalties for them.

This was a tragic accident there's nothing to br gained by punishing the unfortunate more
after the fact.



How about punishment and deterrence?

I have been knocked over by a cyclist going at high speed on the pavement, and I have been scared witless by several cyclists riding past me at high speed on the pavement, missing me by inches as I turned round startled by noise. I was once scared witless by a large group of cyclists riding at very high speed along a narrow path down the side of a hill in the middle of the countryside. They expected me to just get out of the way. Many cyclists often riding expensive bikes show a total disregard for others.

I have nothing against cyclists on the pavement, as long as they give way to pedestrians and are safe.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Robin Reliant
All cyclists who ride on the pavement do so at high speed, by the very fact that they are going faster than the pedestrians who are there. The fact that in most circumstances they don't kill anyone is irrelevant, I am far too old to have 25lb of mountain bike and all it's attendant sharp bits buried in my hip.


--
pedestrian killed by cyclist - L'escargot
>>.... i always
ride my bike on the pavement


Never mind, milkyjoe, we all went through that stage. I've no doubt that when you're old enough to go to Junior School Daddy will buy you a real bike without stabiliser wheels and allow you to ride on the road alongside him and Mummy.
--
L\'escargot.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Bromptonaut
Leif,

I spent 10 years of my life working around issues of mental capacity. Other members of my family have worked in special education and at least one has been a user of Mental Health Services. It's a subject on which I feel strongly.

Neither the term mentally handicapped or retarded are regarded as acceptable descriptions of disability.

Brain injury is a recognised term. It mostly happens to young men who have accidents in cars or in physical occupations, though being a drunk pedestrian adds a few more. Symtoms are personality change, disinhibition, lack of reasoning etc. Some people recover or adapt over time, other need permanent care. Many return to driving.

Learning difficulties are usually something one is born with and cover a range of issues from being a "bit dim" through to the tragic cases who are chair/bed bound and still dependant on their parents at 50. While I accept that the term is over used, along with ADHD etc, to excuse adolescent behaviour it does exist.

Even amongst the mentally ill (schizophrenia etc) very few are a real threat to others - certainly not to the extent the lock em up brigade in the press would have you beleive.

The perp in this case was presumably not unfit to ride a bike, even if he was warned about his riding (and anyway how do you stop him). How about a big fellow who runs everywhere pushing over old ladies etc - do you stop him walking?

He's been held responsible for his actions, hence the sentence.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 17/11/2007 at 17:43

pedestrian killed by cyclist - Leif
Bromptonaut

We don't really know if this lad was just a bit slow witted, or had some mental deficit. I suspect the former, but it is not clear from the news report.

I am afraid I do not know what terms to use if mentally handicapped or retarded are not considered acceptable.

To enlarge on something you said, most of those classed as mentally ill are a threat to no-one but themselves. Many years ago I learnt that a friend had killed himself and that he was schizophrenic. I was till then unaware of his illness. He was a very talented physicist.

Incidentally my late mother was a psychiatric nurse for over 30 years and my late grandmother was hemiplegic, unable to say more than a few words, and had to live in a care home.

pedestrian killed by cyclist - hbosken
My old man uses a walking stick and successfully managed to "slip" and poke it through the rear wheel of a pavement cyclist. flluffed the wheel completely. Cyclist wasn't too pleased and threatened to call the police and do my Dad for assault. My Dad simply told him to go ahead, 'cos at his age (85) he had nothing to fear! Cyclist walked off, with bike on shoulder, looking miserable.

a random word will be inserted when anyone tries to defeat the swear filter

Edited by Pugugly {P} on 18/11/2007 at 17:26

pedestrian killed by cyclist - Roger Jones
" but not as dangerous as riding them on the road, pot holes , drain covers , taxi and bus drivers . oh and some car drivers to contend with, i always ride my bike on the pavement but not at 30mph like a retard"

Some suggestions:

* Report all pot-holes to the local authority. In my area they are usually fixed within 24 hours. The authorities take them seriously, and welcome reports from the public, because they represent a serious liability. I do this routinely via their website, which has specific channels for this and similar purposes.
www.tagish.co.uk/Links/

* Ditto misaligned and missing drain covers.

* Report any bad driving by bus drivers, taxi drivers and commercial drivers (telephone numbers on the vans, etc.) to bus company, local authority or vehicle owner. Seeing a 73 bus in London tailgating a cyclist I did just that; the written letter of thanks from the depot manager revealed that he was himself a cyclist and was therefore more than certain to sort the driver out. If you don't do this sort of thing, nothing improves. If you do, these drivers will soon spread the word that they'd better watch out.

* Wear high-vis clothing. Fit one of those protruding plastic arms to assert your road space. Signal your intentions properly (you may get pleasing responses to that one in particular).

* Use front and rear lights at night.

* Obey the Highway Code and you may find that you improve the standard of driving of those around you.

* Behave like the vehicle driver that you are when you ride a bike. Vehicles are not driven on pavements.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Big Bird
I think the original post refereed to clearly unacceptable behaviour by the cyclist - it's been heard in court, who had much better info than we have, so I'm happy to believe that's dealt with fairly.

re: (other) louts cycling on the pavement.

My kids cycle on the pavement and I have every intention of telling them to keep doing so.

The reason is that our village has a decent cycle path for about half of their most frequent route, the rest - through the centre of the village - is narrow road and very busy, plenty of traffic and some buses and goods vehicles.
I have second thoughts about cycling along there during the morning rush -certainly wouldn?t expect my 10 and 13 year old to do so every day.

My 13 year old is nearly my height and when he has a fleece and hood no doubt looks to an oldster like a lout.

My kids (I hope) don?t go excessively fast and stop when there are pedestrians in the way.

It?s not unknown for oldsters to remonstrate with them when they stop and tell them to get off the pavement.
I tell my kids to just say ?sorry my dad told me to? and cycle on.

Responding to the intolerant behaviour of some cyclists with intolerance isn?t really going to help ? unless you?d rather they all started getting lifts to school
- more traffic
- more pollution
- unfit or obese kids

Dan

Edited by Big Bird on 19/11/2007 at 10:57

pedestrian killed by cyclist - slowdown avenue
it has to come down to commonsense. if the road becomes to dangerous , then get on the pavement. but you must ride at an appropiate speed. you must have a bell, and hi vis... what ever happened to commonsense?
pedestrian killed by cyclist - pyruse
it has to come down to commonsense. if the road becomes to dangerous then get
on the pavement. but you must ride at an appropiate speed. you must have a
bell and hi vis... what ever happened to commonsense?


Quite. Nothing wrong with cycling on the pavement so long as you respect other users of the pavement - use your bell and slow down when approaching pedestrians. After all, a cyclist on a bike takes up less room than one pushing a bike.
It's no different to respecting other road users on the road - for instance slowing down and not using your horn when passing horses.

A lot of cyclists, particularly young ones, don't seem to have bells on their bikes, and a lot of people, never mind cyclists, seem to be completely selfish and don't care at all about anyone else. That's really the problem, not cycling on the pavement.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - mjm
>>Quite. Nothing wrong with cycling on the pavement <<

Except that it is against the law. Do you therefore assume that cyclists can select which laws they chose to obey? Can I therefore choose a speed at which I can drive at?

Why should pedestrians have to listen for your bell and be prepared to take avoiding action to avoid getting injured by someone breaking the law?
Cyclists do not pay to use the roads in the same way that car owners do. Is it asking too much to expect them to obey the same laws as motorists, then?
pedestrian killed by cyclist - audi dave
Lots of narrow footpaths have been "magically transformed" into shared pedestrian / cycletracks by putting the odd blue sign up. Then the cyclists end up annoying the pedestrians if they ride on the cycletrack - because there's not enough room. If the cyclist then rides on the road the car drivers don't like it.

What is needed is properly designed cycletracks. To get enough space in crowded towns that means restricting the space for cars. But until our "car is king - speed doesn't kill - speed cameras are taxing the riteous" culture changes, we won't get them.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Focus {P}
From online Highway Code:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycod...8

206

Drive carefully and slowly when

* needing to cross a pavement or cycle track; for example, to reach or leave a driveway. Give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the pavement

Does the last sentence just mean that they accept it happens?
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Focus {P}
Just to confirm:

64

You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - pyruse
Just to confirm:
64
You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.


Even when it's got signs proclaiming it to be a cycle track?

Maybe if councils provided proper cycle tracks instead of putting bicycle signs on pavements? (Pavements which are usually obstructed by lampposts, signs, and pedestrians, of course).

Many cycle tracks around Cambridge *are* pavements, not that you would know it from the way pedestrians react.

pedestrian killed by cyclist - FotheringtonThomas
>> You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.
Even when it's got signs proclaiming it to be a cycle track?


The answer to that is, I should think, obvious.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - FotheringtonThomas
Quite. Nothing wrong with cycling on the pavement so long as you respect other users
of the pavement - use your bell and slow down when approaching pedestrians.


Paths are for pedestrians, not cyclists, horse riders, oiks on mini-scooters, cars, lorries, tractors, or whatever.

Highway Code 64 - You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.
54 - You MUST NOT take a horse onto a footpath or pavement

Etc.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Collos25
Germany manages to split pavements for both users without any problem,I a cyclist and if i thought it to dangerous on a certain road and there was an adequate pavement then I would use it.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Group B
Highway Code 64 - You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.



I got told off once by a constable for riding my bike on the pavement, I guess I was in my early teens so it was the mid-80's.

Said beat bobby took me to task over my wheel diameter, as it was greater than ?? inches I was breaking the law, and would be in trouble if I got caught doing it again.

Would not happen these days would it?
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Chris S
RE: Highway Code 64 - You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.

My local police and CSOs do it all the time. Perhaps they should be issuing themselves with Fixed Penalty Notices?
pedestrian killed by cyclist - FotheringtonThomas
My local police and CSOs do it all the time (cycling on the pavement)


They're not legal experts. Perhaps you could tell them.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Chris S
So only legal experts can issue Fixed Penalty Notices? Do you live in the UK?
pedestrian killed by cyclist - FotheringtonThomas
So only legal experts can issue Fixed Penalty Notices?


I am not sure how you jump to that conclusion. I didn't say that.
Do you live in the UK?


Yes.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Dipstick
"Would not happen these days would it?"

It would you know. Even though I couldn't quite believe it and had to have a little sit down afterwards, I came across a policeman ticking off a cyclist in Cambridge the other day, for cycling on the pavement. Said cyclist was being told it was dangerous with so many people about, and he agreed, looked embarrassed, and wheeled his bike off looking sheepish.

So it CAN still happen.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Leif
So it CAN still happen.



I've been ticked off a few times by a copper when on a bike, and rightly so. The first time was for cycling at night without lights. When a copper shouts "Get some lights if you want to live" it does make you think. The second time was for filtering left at a junction on a red light. In my opinion such 'soft policing' works.

However ... I suspect that it does not show up in government targets so maybe we will see less of it ...

Edited by Leif on 20/11/2007 at 13:08

pedestrian killed by cyclist - FotheringtonThomas
Germany manages to split pavements for both users without any problem


So do we.
I a cyclist


So I are, sometimes.
and if i thought it to dangerous on a certain road and there was an adequate
pavement then I would use it.


I might just, too - but I would avoid it if possible. This sort of thing is not helpful to the "image" of cyclists.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Leif
>> Germany manages to split pavements for both users without any problem
So do we.


Not in my experience. Pedestrians walk along 'cycle tracks' rendering them pointless. Assuming of course that like me you show consideration for the safety of pedestrians.

There were cycle lanes on the road in Slough, but these forced cycles into the drains, and it was common place for many cyclists to cycle in the wrong direction!!!!
>> I a cyclist
So I are sometimes.
>> and if i thought it to dangerous on a certain road and there was
an adequate
>> pavement then I would use it.
I might just too - but I would avoid it if possible. This sort of
thing is not helpful to the "image" of cyclists.



Unfortunately the roads are often not safe for cyclists, as many drivers are either not observant, or knowingly endanger their lives e.g. forcing them out of the way with the side of the vehicle. Recently talking to someone who lives in London, I heard that several of her friends and acquaintances had been killed by a car while cycling on the public roads. I know of many people who have been hit by a car, damaging their bike. And I had several nasties when cycling in London 20 years ago. I doubt it has improved.

I once had a car driver in a top end sports car try to squeeze past me, scaring me witless. He then wound down his window and shouted "Get off the road and onto the pavement". There was a cycle path, but I was legally on the road. The so-called cycle path was full of pedestrians, and crossed numerous side roads, rendering it useless.

This is all about common sense which is a scarce commodity. A cyclist can quite safely use the pavement, as long as he she dismounts when very close to pedestrians, and cycles at walking pace when close. The fact that it is illegal is another issue, though I too have seen coppers on bikes on the pavement.

Sadly the problem is cash strapped councils having to do more and more to achieve central government targets, and something has to give. The plague of parking meters is one result.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - madf
A long stick through the spokes stops a bike pdq.
I learned that as a kid and have the scars to prove it.

If I had to brave such things I'd carry an umbrella. It's easily spun up by a wheel and thrust into the wheel by accident.

Not that I would condone such action of course.


madf
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Leif
If I had to brave such things I'd carry an umbrella. It's easily spun up
by a wheel and thrust into the wheel by accident.

SNIPQUOTE!

I certainly hope not. If I saw anyone doing such a thing then I would do everything I could to have them prosecuted. I do not for one second condone dangerous and irresponsible cycling. But two wrongs do not make a right.

As an aside, I once had a squirrel leap into my front wheel and bounce off. So, squirrels are not as effective as an umbrella.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 20/11/2007 at 18:35

pedestrian killed by cyclist - mss1tw
How many of the foaming at the mouth brigade have actually cycled on the road in 9am rush hour traffic?

I try to stick to the road but when I've had enough of idiots tearing past me desperate to get to the next red light/traffic jam before me, I ride on the pavement. Carefully, aware it's for pedestrians.

I remain entirely unapologetic.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - slowdown avenue
yeah and how many of the foaming brigade, park on the pavement when they think it the best place to be. Let the rule be, use risk assesment. and be goverend by commonsense.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - L'escargot
I try to stick to the road but when I've had enough of idiots tearing
past me desperate to get to the next red light/traffic jam before me I ride
on the pavement.


Interesting. How do you decide which laws to obey and which to flout?
--
L\'escargot.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Leif
Interesting. How do you decide which laws to obey and which to flout?

SNIPQUOTE ONCE AGAIN- sigh!

Presumably on the basis of how long he/she wants to live. Ever dealt with a car that has decided to turn left when you are alongside? Or a van that purposefully uses its side to shove you out of the way? Is such behaviour legal?

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 21/11/2007 at 10:19

pedestrian killed by cyclist - RaineMan

This morning I saw two cyclists go through red traffic lights (green man on) from opposite directions. However, their behaviour was to be applauded as a good example to others. They both dismounted and pushed their bicycles through the lights before re-mounting and cycling off. If they all behaved in this manner there would be fewer moans.

I also cycle occasionally so appreciate some of the problems. A few years ago I was overtaken whilst on a bike by someone who immediately turned left and sent me over their roof. I ended up in hospital, fortunately only with severe abrasions and bruising. The driver although questioned by police was never prosecuted - he was a local dignitary!
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Leif
I also cycle occasionally so appreciate some of the problems. A few years ago I
was overtaken whilst on a bike by someone who immediately turned left and sent me
over their roof. I ended up in hospital fortunately only with severe abrasions and bruising.
The driver although questioned by police was never prosecuted - he was a local dignitary!



Had this person been caught doing 35mph in a 30mph zone, without causing any injury, they would have been fined and had points on their licence. It does seem odd.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - mss1tw
Interesting. How do you decide which laws to obey and which to flout?


I don't choose to obey any. Just so happens most of the time I do. I don't steal. Or mug people.

Sometimes though, I break them. I don't care.
pedestrian killed by cyclist - Vin {P}
Leif: "Recently talking to someone who lives in London, I heard that several of her friends and acquaintances had been killed by a car while cycling on the public roads."

Given there are about 22 deaths a year on bicycles in London (inner and outer combined, with 450,000 journeys a day) then to know "several" sounds like exaggeration, unless your friend is extremely unlucky in her choice of friends.

Additionally, it's been calculated that, for each year of life lost through cycling, 30 years are gained through the health benefits.

I speak as someone who rides a fold-up from Waterloo to Soho two or three times a week. Cycle use has increased hugely in London over recent years, which means that drivers are much more cycle aware than they used to be. I have had no near misses yet, though that may be related to the fact that I stop at lights, avoid the pavement and never undertake people who might be about to turn left, signalling or no.

V

pedestrian killed by cyclist - pyruse
Vin wrote:
I speak as someone who rides a fold-up from Waterloo to Soho two or three times a week. Cycle use has increased hugely in London over recent years, which means that drivers are much more cycle aware than they used to be. I have had no near misses yet, though that may be related to the fact that I stop at lights, avoid the pavement and never undertake people who might be about to turn left, signalling or no.
--------------------------------

I find the biggest risk to life and limb comes from buses, which are quite happy to overtake you and then slam on the brakes and pull in to a bus stop, or just squash you against the kerb, or drive straight toward you in a chicane which isn't wide enough for a bus and a bike.
I've also been knocked off while cycling in a cycle lane by trucks who didn't want to pull out enough.
Fortunately this sort of thing happens at low speeds on urban roads, so bad injury seldom results, but it is pretty unpleasant.
However, if you've ever tried cycling on a country road you wouldn't like it - traffic whizzing past at 60mph, and nowhere to escape to.

Edited by pyruse on 21/11/2007 at 10:28

pedestrian killed by cyclist - milkyjoe
i was following a breakdown truck last week through the inner city, the recovered car on the back was facing rearward and all of a sudden the drivers door on the recovered car swung open , i sounded my horn and flashed the driver of the truck who pulled over within about 20 seconds, good job because any cyclist who may have been in the way would easily have sustained severe head traumor, so cycling on the pavement does have its up side

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