Regarding the future of petrol and diesel, some of us have thought about going back to petrol as costs and complexity increase with diesel.
Fiat seem to be stating similar here and going for new petrol engines..
What do you think?
www.italiaspeed.com/2006/cars/other/technology/11/...l
|
I ran diesels for about ten years, and was very pleased with their economy. It was all wiped out in one foul swoop when the injector pump went on my Focus TDDI. £1400.
I now run exclusively petrol, and feel pleased I do, when I read of some of the other horror stories (prices) here about failures of turbos, comon rail, injectors et al.
|
I wish FIAT luck, none of the many other DI petrols seem to have been a success.
There must be millions of totaly reliable diesels in europe, and I think we agree that these forums attract horror stories. You have to be unlucky or careless (miss fuel) to have a problem. I agree that repair costs are scary (must find some wood to touch).
|
|
|
|
Are turbo diesel engines with fuel injection any more complex than petrol engines with same? The VW 1.4 supercharged/turbocharged engine seems highly complex to me - is it inherently cheaper to maintain or simpler than a turbodiesel?
Diesel engines will always have the advantage of not requiring timed ignition/spark systems, with all that that entails. By 'costs' I suppose you're referring to general service schedules & pricing - my hunch is that this is partially artifically maufactured by the vehicle makers & vested interests to reclaim profit by the 'traditional' route of high service costs & not because diesels require special machines or extended processes & extra materials to maintain them.
|
|
My understanding is that turbos run hotter in petrol applications than diesel ones and are therefore closer to the edge and more likely to fail or be destroyed by careless treatment. So these small high-output turbo petrol engines - is the top illustration in the Fiat piece of a two-cylinder engine I wonder? I do hope so - may have their own fragile or expensive side for some people.
|
|
I wouldn't choose another petrol car for everyday use - I prefer diesels. If i ever buy a classic car, that would probably be petrol, though.
|
|
|
I wouldn't worry too much about the output of these engines and FIAT.
Twenty years ago they were getting over 120bhp from the 1.4 engine in the Uno turbo. The KKK chargers they were using then were very reliable, over 100k miles was not unusual.
It will be interesting to see what the service schedule is for the VW Golf GT with the 1.4 engine. I seem to remember the Corrado G60 with it's supercharger requiring a rebuild at around the 60k mark.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I,m on my 5th year with diesel cars. Costs are no worse than petrol and I get 45 a gallon with a 2.2. Performance is ok and I don't need a cambelt every 40k. Wisdom on this site quotes 12k a year plus as making economic sense in using a diesel car.
|
My experience with peugeot 106 diesel vs petrol (yes I know old technolgy) is that diesels last better than petrol in the longevity stakes. Heat induced corrosion is probably less for a start due to lower operating temperatures of a diesel.
I've driven diesels on and off for 12 years. I would not go back to petrol: a good diesel with NVH sorted is more relaxing to drive around town due to the low speed torque.. And much more economical.
madf
|
"diesel with NVH sorted"
Is there such a thing? I'm including the bystanders... :-)
|
"diesel with NVH sorted" Is there such a thing?
Some of the 6 and 8 cylinder ones are getting pretty good. Not so for 4-cyls yet IMO.
|
Diesels seems to be one of the things you either love or hate. Nobody ever seems to be non-committal on the subject. Me, I hate them.
--
L\'escargot.
|
|
I think a lot of 'drivers', who just see a car as a means of getting from A-B, like Diesels. I've not met any real car enthusiasts who like Diesel though. There is no substitute for a smooth and free-reving petrol engine that spins effortlessly to 7000+ rpm.
|
|
I consider myself a car enthusiast and there are some cars that do suit only a petrol engine e.g. Ferrari F430, but there are some that are good cars that lend themselves to a diesel too like the Range Rover. Both are great enthusiast cars and both have different characters, so I'll call myself an enthusiast who likes both...
|
I'll call myself an enthusiast who likes both...
I like both too. I don't much like Transit diesel Lutons and I don't much like old London taxis, but I imagine even Aprilia could have an enjoyable time punting say a large BMW diesel about on fairly empty roads. I've never done this myself, but it can't be a dreary experience, surely?
|
I like both too and for different driving pleasures, not much to beat the enjoyment of a free revving petrol engine and a nice handling car preferably rwd for me.
but the constant non stop thrust of a 6 pot German turbodiesel with auto is an addictive and licence losing buzz.
Depends does enjoying performance without hard work make you less of an enthusiast?
Anyway back to OP daresay the new range of petrols will turn out to have their own expensive problems in due course.
Even if they don't it only needs a change in fuel similar to the large scale removal of sulphur from diesel to cause all sorts of headache's.
Can always rely on a politician to throw a spanner in.
|
My understanding was that more companies were focusing on petrol engines to satisfy the new euroncap measures out soon that will see off a lot of diesels - as relative to petrol they pollute alot more (CO2 excluded) and would not be good enough to comply.
Things like Bluetec will help but off course that is dependent on the bluetec fluid being topped up at service etc so it is not gauranteed although Honda are supposedly bringing out a new diesel engine that will comply with no additives - I think its the re-design of the exhaust system that makes it work although that is about 18-24 months away.
|
|
