SAAB 9-3 (2002 - 2007) - 1.9TiD or 2.2TiD

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 17:43
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - 13dd13
I'm contemplating buying a used Saab and was wondering if anyone can let me know the pros and cons of the 2 versions of their diesel variants. Thanks.
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 18:20
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Paul I
Some big horror story's on the 2.2 Tid (I think it's the same engine as the Vauxhall Vectra) the 1.9 is a Fiat design and is a lot better in the 150 design, only I dont like is the nylon/plastic pulley's (had issues before) but it terms of engine it's sweet - just that unlike VAG's it requires you to keep an eye on it - unlike VAG's it isn't noisy though.
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 19:27
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Group B
Some big horror story's on the 2.2 Tid (I think it's the same engine as
the Vauxhall Vectra)



Can you elaborate on that Paul? I know the Vectra 2.2 petrol had a cam chain lubrication issue, whats the issue with the diesel?

;o)
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 22:54
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Paul I
Can you elaborate on that Paul? I know the Vectra 2.2 petrol had a cam
chain lubrication issue whats the issue with the diesel?



Yes, just got of the phone with a Saab Mechanic I know - verdict

(2.2 Diesel) Exhaust gas recirculation valves fail leading to engine failure. Injector failure, New MAF is expensive and the dipstick is known to give the wrong oil level - a junior or untrained mechanic can easily overfill with oil.

(1.9 Diesel) The timing belt on can be thrown off its pulley, wrecking the engine. This nearly happened to me on a Punto hence my coments about they're plastic pulleys !!
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 18:20
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - rtj70
The 1.9 is the FIAT derived common-rail unit. The other is the older and inferior GM unit. The better engine is the 1.9, especially in 150PS tune (now a twin-turbo 180PS on the way).

But I now wonder if the old 2.2 older technology engine is more tolerant with all the failures we're seeing here for common-rail? Personally I'd go for the 1.9 though.
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 18:27
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Armitage Shanks {p}
My Partner has a 1998 2.2 Tid. The paintwork was very good indeed and she found it comfortable and it suited her lifestyle. However, it suffered an injection pump failure and the replacement part (new) was £1800 which was about half of the value of the car, when it failed. I got it rebuilt for her for £900 with a 1 year warranty and it is still running well. Mpg in the mid 40s.
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 20:13
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Avant
I had a good run in a 1.9 TiD ( a 24-hour test drive) and I found the turbo lag too much to live with - I particularly remember slowing for a roundabout, changing down into 2nd, and almost causing another car to brake by the slowness of my exit.

A 2.2 might be better but others have raised reliability issues - so personally I wouldn't have a Saab. In the old days they had a very good name for safety and reliability, but I don't think the GM influence has been for the good as far as reliability goes..
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 21:25
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - akr
Yawn, yawn. Hre we go again. Another Saab basher and he's obviously owned several so speaks from first hand experience!!!!! Not!
I've had a current shape 2.2 and 1.9 (150). Only had the 2.2 a relatively short time and it never missed a beat. Colleague at work has just bought one for towing (100 000 miles plus) and the only niggles are rattles.
My current 1.9 has done 35000 miles. Engine faultless. A couple of electrical niggles sorted quickly and efficiently by dealer. 1.9 is far more refined than 2.2 and a bit more economical - I get 43ish to the gallon.
As for turbo lag? What nonsense. Try pressing the go pedal!!!! all diesels have turbo lag below 1800 so you make sure the turbo's on song as you enter a roundabout. Try learning how to drive a diesel.
Ignore the bashers - they're great cars but definitely go for the 1.9.
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 21:50
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - madf
"all diesels have turbo lag below 1800 "

A sweeping generalisation not bourne out by the facts - see VW 1.9tdi.
madf
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 21:51
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - pd
Both engines are well known - the 2.2 is known for diesel pump failure but it is not a generally unreliable engine. All engines have their issues. The 1.9 is a nicer unit and used in endless GM and FIAT cars.

93's are capable of major mileages and are nice cars although some very obvious cost cutting lets them down a bit in some areas. For some reason, they always remind me of USA market GM hire cars in the way they're trimmed and finished. The total cost of carpeting a 93 must be about £0.10. If you can live with that they're nice cars to drive which handle and go well.

Personally, I'd have a S60 D5 though if you fancy something vaguely swedish and diesel.
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 22:34
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Happy Blue!
One of my partners has a 2.2TiD and it snapped the cam belt. Luckily it was under warranty. I would never have a Saab after a disastrous 9000 several years ago.
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Mon 22 Oct 2007 23:23
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - wee scotty dog
Yep had a 2.3t with 53K on. Needed a new short engine. Would never have another Saab.
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Tue 23 Oct 2007 01:55
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Dynamic Dave
One of my partners has a 2.2TiD and it snapped the cam belt.


Thought the 2.2 diesel had a chain?
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Sun 3 Jan 2010 19:05
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - ScaZ
cam belt hmmmmm ?? Correct me if Im wrong but the 2.2 Tid engine has a chain not a cam belt?

SAAB 9-5 2.2 Tid Arc Saloon 2003.

In my experience and i have almost 160,000 miles of it with my 2003 95, the only things i have personally found to happen is the following:

1. EGR valve once blocked up, a local garage took it off gave it a good clean for a fiver then it was back to normal.

The EGR valve is also usually the cause of phantom engine management light which will normally need a clean. However if this does break some how then it may be about £200 to replace, but is an easy install.
((Be aware some mechanics may say it is broken instead of cleaning it out!!))

2. the heating bypass valve broke, which is a common GM part and fault (cheaper from vauxhall about £40 from the dealer, the AA fitted mine in 10 min's no big deal)

3. The SID unit once became unreadable, after a while and a quick fix from ebay £40 now guaranteed for ever and ever..... and ever

wear and tear items , batteries, tyres, pads and discs, as usual !!

exhaust on mine is still original after 160K believe me mine gets plenty of stick.

Due to the weight the car isn't very good setting off in ice or on v steep hills the high torque seems to make the wheels spin even with gentle clutch control.

Passenger air bag does not turn off.

Dont be spooked by the 2.2 litre I am getting about 38mpg average however i drive quite aggressively i reckon normal conditions (no wheel spinning ect you could get on a good run 50+ mpg) and remember mine is clocked at 160K.

MY VERDICT (IF IT MATTERS),

OVER ALL WITH GOOD OIL AND SERVICING THE 2.2 TID CAR WILL BE AN EXCELLENT SAFE RELIABLE CHOICE. HANDLES WELL FOR ITS SIZE, FAIRLY QUICK BUT IS NO RACER.
GOOD ON FUEL TOP SPEED AROUND 130mph (if this matters).

PARTS IN ABUNDANCE IF YOU DO NEED SOME AS THEY SHARE MANY WITH VAUXHALL DISKS PADS ENGINE ECT....



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Sat 30 Apr 2011 22:19
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - ScaZ
Just thought I'd update how my 9-5 is keeping up.
I'm now running my 9-5 on 75% vegetable oil 25% deisel mix with no modification and I've now done. 1k on this (190k altogether) with no problems other than the ones listed before.

Saab 9-5 Arc 2.2tid 2003 (52 plate)

SCAZ

Edited by ScaZ on 30/04/2011 at 22:25

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Mon 22 Oct 2007 23:59
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Avant
"Yawn, yawn. Here we go again. Another Saab basher...." (AKR, 22.10.07)

" I love reading VW bashing threads. I am a member of the VW bashing club for all the reasons people have already stated." (AKR, 1.5.06)

???

Wouldn't it be better just to report what we find, as I and others have done with the 9.3, and just politely disagree, without any suggestion of "bashing", or implying that others don't know how to drive?
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Tue 23 Oct 2007 21:28
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - akr
I have reported as I have found i.e. I've had 3 Saabs which have all been realy good and three Golfs which weren't. The last Golf nearly killed me. I couldn't be more matter of fact than that in terms of reporting how I find!!!
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Tue 23 Oct 2007 22:01
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - commerdriver
I did 100k miles from new in 4 years in a 2.2 hatchback, great car, comfortable, reasonably quick by standards of its day. Engine is a bit unrefined compared to others of the time but not too bad and mine was reliable for the time I had it.
Now got a 1.9 150 saloon, much more refined, quicker and handles better than the hatch did.
I noticed the low speed lag when I got it but when you are used to it you dont try and pull away from 5 mph in second and dont have a problem. To be honest I dont think about it any more, it has more than enough performance in every other way. Have had one injector problem which was sorted under wrranty so reliability is OK but not perfect, ask me again in another 2 years and 50k miles.
Personally I think they have the most comfortable seats in the class. Dont know about servicing costs etc as mine is a company car but have been happy with the dealer as far as service etc goes.
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Tue 23 Oct 2007 23:39
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - tr7v8
This months survival guide in Car Mechanics was the Saab range, frightening costs & iffy reliability. I love Saab, first proper girlfriends Father had owned the Saab main dealers in Basingstoke, but they seem to have adopted all the dodgy engineering that plagues all GM cars. Their Petrols break cam-chains, loads of gearbox issues etc. etc.
I always wanted a 9000 but the wife hated it & we ended up with an Alfa 75, now looks like we'll never have a Saab.
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Sat 27 Oct 2007 20:11
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - aero
Interested in this discussion because I'm thinking of changing my faultess 135K 9-3T (185bhp)for a newer diesel. I used to have a 2.3 900s which I sold to a friend at 185K - its now on 196K and still totally trouble free! I used to run an Audi coupe and a 1.8s both good but not in the Saab league for reliability. My daughter has run 2 Golf GTI's (Mk 3 and Mk 4) and my brother in law had a Passat 1.8T. All were driven far more gently than my Saabs and all were money pits! I have extensive experience of an A4 with the 130bhp turbo diesel and whilst it is fast and very economical, it is also noisy and very expensive to maintain (cambelt change!!)
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Thu 6 Dec 2007 19:34
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Captain Leisure
Have a 1999 9-3 2.2 TiD which our family has owned from new. Now has 105k on the clock and has been totally faultless. Been serviced properly throughout its life.

Sister in law has had a '98 version of the same model, from new, which has done 198k and still goes fine.

Both cars return around 45mpg.

I've owned several other Saabs over the years and whilst the TiD is dull and uninspiring to drive it keeps plodding along. The 2.2 seems to lack top AND bottom end power and IMHO is a poor engine compared to a VAG 1.9 TDi, for example, but it does what it says on the tin.
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Thu 6 Dec 2007 23:39
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - brise
I have an Rreg 9000 now done 123000 been extremely reliable-home serviced mainly.18 months ago felt I had better get something lower mileage and came across anumber of 95s 2.3 litre with new engines at 30000-40000!e.g.2003 high spec car ne w engine at 30000(main dealer serviced).Heard that reason is oil pump failure and essential to use fully synthetic oil.I kept looking at the ads and got another 9000 which had done 16000 only.Could'nt bear to sell the other 9000 so have 2 for the time being.
Saabscene.com is avery helpful site just like honest john!
Good Hunting
Brise
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Fri 7 Dec 2007 18:48
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Roly93
I had a Saab 93 2.2 TID for 18 months, and to be honest it didn't give any problems other than trim/build quality weaknesses. I think the 2.2 diesel is basic, unrefined and rhorty, but I wouldn't have said it was unreliable compared to some of the common-rail diesels. I have heard that the 2.2 can sometimes suffer from premature injector pump failure on the early models, but I dont know if this is any more than a rumour. I have driven the 1.9 engined variant which is much better, but I'm not sure how these fare in reliabilty. Frankly if you are fussy about diesel refinement, I would steer well clear of the 2.2
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Sun 3 Jan 2010 23:22
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - DP
A friend had the 2.2 diesel engine in a Vectra, and it went on to do 100k without so much as a misfire. Mind you, he ignored the ludicrous 30k service intervals, and had oil and filter changes every 10k. He reckoned the research he did at the time suggested a lot of the cam chain problems were due to lubrication issues caused by the over-long service intervals.

I went in the car as a passenger, and I seem to recall it being pretty gutsy (I think it knocked out 125 bhp or so), and was reasonably refined for an old tech rotary pump diesel engine.

I know of three turbo failures between 60k and 70k on FVSH'd 1.9 150 Vectras. I don't know if this is common, but it's the only type of engine failure on any car that has happened to more than one person that I personally know. Read into that what you will.

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Mon 4 Jan 2010 00:21
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Avant
...."the ludicrous 30k service intervals...."

Quite agree. Wouldn't life be so much simpler if all manufacturers recommended a service every 10,000 miles or a year, whichever is the sooner. Oil change at 10,000 miles, major service at 20,000 / 2 years and so on. (Well done Skoda and Toyota, who do just that.)
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Mon 4 Jan 2010 16:02
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - corax
>>(Well done Skoda and Toyota, who do just that.)

And its funny how they both always appear near the top of customer surveys for reliability. If you don't do anything else, a regular oil change should be a priority.
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Mon 4 Jan 2010 16:23
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - JH
This thread started 3 years ago! Was there a long queue at the bar? :-)

JH
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Mon 11 Jan 2010 14:14
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - PheasantPlucker
Twin Saab family (one petrol, one diesel). I've got a 1.9 TiD (15) and want to know if I've been particularly unlucky or this is typical for the engine. The car was registered Mar 2005, so it's not that old, but in the 2 years I've had it the following has been done

1) Replace inlet manifold (Saab recall)

2) Replace failed alternator (ouch)

3) Engine light came on - replace faulty fuel pressure sensor

4) Engine light came on - replace another sensor (forget which one)

4) Engine light came on - replace EGR valve with newer designed one that doesn't coke up so easily.

Now I have the engine warning light on (again) and the engine occasionally cuts out whilst otherwise travelling along quite nicely, not the best thing in the recent snowy weather.

It's only done 55k and has had all the relevent services etc.

It this a lemon, or typical for the 1.9 TiD engine?
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Mon 11 Jan 2010 14:34
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - commerdriver
Sounds like a lemon
I've had mine for 4 years with 1 injector problem about 3 years ago and nothing since, previous 2.2 Tdi hatchback did 100k in 4 years without a hiccup.
To be fair don't think they are better or worse than anything else, I get a new company car every 4 years and expect them to do 100k in that 4 years without a problem, had various Vauxhalls do that over the years as well.
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Mon 4 Jan 2010 11:18
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Roly93
I had the 2.2TiD SaaB 93ss a few years ago.
This engine is old technology and a bit on the rough side by modern standards, but is quite gutsy and reasonably economical.
True it was an old Vauxhall engine, and can suffer (at high mileages) with leaky injector seals and possible injector pump failure, but mine never showed any hint of a problem, however the rest of the car did !

The 1.9 engine is now well proven and much more refined however.
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Wed 13 Jan 2010 12:14
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - veryoldbear
My 95 Estate 2.2tid is still chugging on at 135,000. Clatters a bit on start-up but OK once warmed up. I change oil every 10,000.
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Sun 14 Feb 2010 12:24
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Hercules The Bear
I've got a 9-3 sport saloon with the 2.2TiD engine, bought s/h two years ago from an official Saab franchise. The car's done 105,000 miles, about 30,000 of which with me. Previous one owner was a fleet, so quite well looked after, hence official dealer was happy to trade it. I've had a few things needing fixed, but it's all wear and tear if you ask me. Only truly expensive thing was the intercooler, after 90k miles. Mine is the 125bhp version with 280nm of torque. This engine can be upgraded to 320nm and 150bhp with a plug and play kit, which I may do in future. A bit clattery on start-up but a quiet cruiser and it has plenty of oomph for overtaking. I get about 50-52 mpg if I drive carefully on long hauls and the superbly comfortable seats and Saab character make it a pleasure. Stereo sound quality is the only complaint with an otherwise superb car. And it's not an 'Opel' engine; it was designed by Renault unless I am very much mistaken. I have driven the Epsilon-based Vectra as well, a 2006 model. From a driving point of view, that was a decent car but bore no relation to the Saab other than the fact that it both have four wheels and are made from metal, not custard.
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Sun 20 Mar 2011 15:28
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Straw Panda

Someone mentioned a disastrous 9000. I bought my 2.3 LPT 9000 CS (petrol, 170bhp), now 14 years old, 11 years ago with 85k on the clock to which I've added nearly 70k. In all that time I've had a couple of clutch repairs, the speedo and petrol pump replaced plus the usual tyres and battery - but never the exhaust. Basically it has been and still is a reliable car for which the annual bills average out to not a lot. I'm now considering a 7-year-old 9-5 2.2 TiD estate (120bhp) with 115k on it as I think it's a lot of car for the price being asked and it would be better with my dog. I see this as a stopgap for a year or two until the 9-3 TTiD 180 SportsWagons become affordable. Any thoughts anyone?

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Mon 21 Mar 2011 12:39
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Mike H

Someone mentioned a disastrous 9000.

Yes, but the date of that post was October 2007, three and a half years ago! ;-)

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Sun 20 Mar 2011 17:38
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Buster Cambelt

I am midway through a 72 hour test drive of a 9-3 1.9 TTID and I think it's absolutely great. the ride, refinement and lack of trim rattles are a revelation after my Skoda Yeti.

I have the 180bhp version and despite having fewer than 1500 miles it pulls like the proverbial train.

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Mon 21 Mar 2011 08:16
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Collos25

I had a 2007 1.9tid estate and can only say that it was the worst car I have diven in many years the build quality was atrocious it broke down so many times it was not true and when I off loaded it two weks later the steering failed.I hope they have improved them with the new owners.

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Mon 21 Mar 2011 09:35
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - veryoldbear

Then again, my 04 2.2tid 95 estate rumbles on without major problems. Just passed 168,000 and hope to make 200,000. I change oil every 10,000 'cos I don't believe in these silly long service intervals.

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Thu 24 Mar 2011 13:13
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - christo

We owned a Saab 9-3 1.9 TiD Sportwagen for about 12 months and bought it from an independant dealer with 1 years Saab warranty left on it, which turned out to be very useful! It had approx 30k miles with full Saab service history.

Saabs seem to be good value for money and our black Sportwagen certainly looked the part. The interior plastics were poor in quality though and it generally had a low quality feel to the interior, apart from the seats which were superb.

During our ownership, it went into the Saab dealer for a number of repairs, that would have been expensive if it wasn't under warranty. These were -

- Air conditining module faulty and replaced,

- induction swirl flaps faulty and replaced,

- new alternator, causing the car to not start one work day morning and had to be recovered to the dealer for repair,

- faulty ECU replaced.

As mentioned above, the engine is a FIAT derived unit and really seems to be the achilles heel of the car. Our car must have cost a fair old bit of money in warranty claims. I really had hoped the car had been more relaible because thecar design is fantastic but it's backed up by a poor engine, which is a great shame.

We decided to sell the car while still under warranty, and I would not consider buying a Saab ever again. If you have to buy one, please make sure it has a good warranty.

PS. We now have an Audi A4 Avant 2.0 TDI SE which is every bit as relaible as the Saab was unreliable. It cost a bit more though......

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Sun 1 May 2011 10:45
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Collos25

I had a 2007 1.9d and I must say it was the worst car that ever passed through my hands the build quality of Lada was far better, made with the cheapest parts available and no interest from Saab.They deserve to go bankrupt.

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Thu 26 Jan 2012 13:03
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - KGMAX

one thing I would just like to highlight I have had Audis VWs various diesels cars but not long after purchasing a 1.9tid linear the EGR & diesil particulate filter went - £890 to replace and by the time the car had been placed on a tow truck over to a saab dealer in glasgow the the front passenger spring had snapped another £130 pounds. My car had to be taken back a further 3 times as the same problem occured costing time and fuel each time the engine was given a 30min purge. On my 3rd visit i was particularly not happy and left it in - not been a problem since fixing a new diesil particulate filter (wonder what happened to the old one. my only advice is not a bad car to drive 100K on the clock however look at the AA warranty for such beasts approx £70 cover alot of problems and may have saved me a fortune(need to be an AA member). heard some other stories about you need to drive it at 3k revs for 10mile for the filter for those of you with old saabs of the diesil variety.

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Thu 26 Jan 2012 14:07
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Lord Laughton

I bought a 1.9 tid 150 bhp on a 54 plate with 33000 on clock FSH ect ect and it was awful. EGR valve went, battery died, front suspension springs went, ECU b*****ed up and cost 600 quid to fix as saab were the only ones to hold the engine codes. I got rid after approx 2000 quid spent on repairs horrible car, rough and slow.

On a different note, I had the 1.9 cdti astra SRI and it was brilliant, 30000 trouble free miles before I chopped it in for BMW estate due to the wife producing kids.

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Thu 26 Jan 2012 22:01
1.9TiD or 2.2TiD - Avant

Interesting to read this thread from a few years ago. 'Plus ca change' - Saabs are still polarising opinions now as then. The one generalisation that can be made is that the less GM had to do with a particular model, the better it was.

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