Where are all the IAM folk these days? I remember in the 70's their rear window stickers and grille badges were a common sight. Still see them around today but far less regularly.
Has the membership dwindled?
Clk Sec
|
They seem to be quite an active bunch around these parts (Cheshire)- they hold regular Sunday meets.
Thought about having a go at the advanced test myself, but my local group meets early (ish) on a Sunday morning and at that time of day I'm usually still under the influence of last nights ale! So unless theres a change in their meeting time or my drinking habits I won't be signing up in the forseable future.
|
|
The only IAM members i have ever met are either mainly ex police officers or older driving instructers,i get an image that most members have pipes, flat caps and driving gloves with chequer on the backs,maybe this is why they are doing a drive to get to us younger people ;-)
|
We have a group that meets locally, I have thought about joining thouigh have not got around to it yet.
Some of the guys are volunteers on the blood service riding Pans, you need IAM to be accepted.
|
|
I was referring to motorcyclists specifically.
|
|
|
|
I am an IAM member, but as most of the members I have met are indeed the pipe-smoking, Rover-driving, "hlier than thou" types, I choose not to display an IAM badge, nor wear their tasteless range of clothing.
The final straw was their offer of a mouse-mat with the slogan "advanced mouse control".
I value what I have learnt while taking my advanced test, but I do not wish to be classed with the public perception of IAM members.
|
|
I can't speak for what is happening nationally, but in my local area (Midlands) things seem to be thriving and there is no shortage of new recruits - indeed there are long delays in getting them booked in with an Observer. A lot are in their 20's and 30's and I don't think we have a single pipe smoker. There is also a very active biker's branch.
|
|
I have an IAM sticker in my car but the local group was certainly predominantly older people with Corsas..
|
I did my IAM. One or two of the instructors were truly anal, having apoplexy if you want half a mile per hour over the limit.
The tester (an old ex police guy), was great.
- "No problem so long as you don't travel at a speed which would trip a camera, if there was one".
|
|
The IAM has gone to the dogs, they're as daft as RoSPA these days.
|
|
I looked into doing the test, just out of interest, but some of their 'policies' seemed plain daft to me (can't remember right now which ones), but it certainly put me off taking it any further. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall they were in favour of road pricing. If so, that would have been enough for me to forget it all.
|
|
I have travelled with a number of IAM members,most were excellent-one I refused to travel with and,in fact,got out of his car.
|
Tell us more jc2. Did he frighten you or was his driving too boring to be borne?
Or was it just a question of attitudes or body odour?
|
Tell us more jc2. Did he frighten you or was his driving too boring to be borne? Or was it just a question of attitudes or body odour?
and did he mirror signal manouvere?
and did he wear those tacky gloves?
|
and did he mirror signal manouvere?
If I recall correctly they use "information, position, speed, gear and acceleration", not MSM.
|
|
The only IAM members i have ever met are either mainly ex police officers or older driving instructers i get an image that most members have pipes flat caps and driving gloves with chequer on the backs maybe this is why they are doing a drive to get to us younger people ;-)
As an IAM member of several years` standing,I can assure this does not hold true in my case,or indeed any member I know of my local (N.Wales) group..
As for having the badge on my car,I decided that I committed too many driving errors and am likely to bring the society into disrepute!
|
|
|
|
|
Where are all the IAM folk these days? I remember in the 70's their rear window stickers and grille badges were a common sight. Still see them around today but far less regularly. Has the membership dwindled? Clk Sec
>>
The IAM was visible recently near here, as their caravan overturned on the A45 near Northampton.
|
|
Bet it wasn't going over the limit though...
|
There is a bit of a misconception about the requirements of the IAM test. The emphasis is very much on "making progress" and making use of any overtaking opportunities. When I did mine the examiner made me do the reverse corner a second time, after commenting " I'm sure you'd be pleased if one of your pupils could do it like that, but I nearly fell asleep waiting for you to finish. Have another go and let's see you make the gearbox whine".
--
|
My youngest offspring passed the IAM test at the age of 28. He did used to display the badge but, after a change of car, when he came to take the badge off the outgoing vehicle the nuts and threads had rusted up so badly he had to hacksaw the badge off.
It's now in a drawer.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
Blimey - I certainly don't recognise my local IAM from the posts above.
Very few OAP members - but a large number of 'working' drivers (i.e. from memory - sales reps, a lady paramedic, RAC man, and a couple of truck drivers who are observers). Cars range from Micras to a chap who's got a newish Porsche. A lot of new members joining - but you can wait anything up to 6 months for your first run because of demand.
As an ex-Observer I can tell you that the name of the game is very much to make progress, with safety paramount. Yes, you do have to stick to the 30mph where signed, but as soon as you cross the line into NSL then you're expected to accelerate swiftly to 60mph. Road positioning on corners is taught (vanishing point etc.) as is the overtaking triangle. A lot of it is about good observation and anticipation - and good car control. Much (most?) of the principles are adopted from police driving school and our local police are strong supporters (meetings at police HQ and regular 'classes' from police drivers - local examiner is police instructor etc).
The IAM also now offers 'fleet driver' training to companies and I hear this is quite popular.
My own experience as an observer is that most drivers are only operating at 50% of their ability. A half-hour test 10-20 years ago is inadequate. Its amazing how many people can't properly co-ordinate clutch, brake and gears properly. road positioning and anticipation are often poor. I can be very frightening at times to go out with some people, but eventually they improve and get a lot of satisfaction from 'doing it properly' rather than just muddling through.
IAM gives out vinyl window stickers now, not metal badges. I have never bothered using mine.
I've never heard anything about the IAM being in favour of road pricing.
|
"As an ex-Observer I can tell you that the name of the game is very much to make progress, with safety paramount"
I thought that was the old IAM, and they had (with Labour's help) shaken off these anti-social and unacceptable afflictions?
|
I thought that was the old IAM and they had (with Labour's help) shaken off these anti-social and unacceptable afflictions?
Sorry, but what on Earth are you on about?
|
I think that the IAM get a large amount of undue negative press. They want to make the roads safer and improve driver awareness. The negative comments made amount them just sum up the state of 'Modern Britain' an ignorant and self obsessed country. The groups are mainly volunteers and give up a large amount of time for a simple reason: knowing they are giving something back and making drivers more 'informed'.
I thought I was a good driver with 9 nine years no claims at the time and when I undertaken the IAM test and passed I can honestly say I did learn many things and it made me a better safer driver. It is a shame the IAM do not get a more positive press but like I say it says more about the state of the country than it does about them.
|
|
|
I passed my IAM motorcycle test at the age of 19 (in 1983).
Went on to become an observer....eventually became the chairman of the local group.
We had about 50 regulars come to the monthly meetings and had a great time.
Ages ranged from late teens to about 55.
At the age of about 27 I took a break from it all until last year, when I decided to go back and get back into it.
Turned out that the group still met in the function room of the same pub as when I stopped going 16 years earlier.
So I went along to see how things had developed.
I turned out to be the youngest bloke in the room at 43 years old.
The meeting room was packed; but everone was 103 million years old!!
Im not joking; the ages were mostly 50's and 60's (mostly 60's)...not one single twenty or thirty something. Pipe smokers, tartan slippers, beige cardigans....it was like a SAGA meeting.
Aprilia.....I too live in the Midlands.....where can I find an IAM group where the majority of members are not dependant on Zimmer Frames??
|
I passed my IAM bike test back in the late seventies. I am convinced what I learnt stopped me having the serious accident that would have otherwise come my way. I passed their car test a couple of years back and again I broke some bad habits and learnt some better ones.
So I class it as a good, worthwhile organisation and I approve of it.
But do I maintain membership? ... no - it's all too much like some of the previous posters have suggested (i.e. old and anal) for my liking and also too pro police.
But I really did benefit from what they offer, it's just that longer term membership ain't for me.
|
There is a bloke who lives near me is an IAM, a professional driving instuctor and use to drive 30+tonners. Problem is he doesn't seem to realise that parking in front of a neighbours gate and/or on their front lawn is a problem, what the heck does that say about qualifications and what is he teaching his pupils !
Whatever happened to neighbourly politeness, go figure !
|
he doesn't seem to realise that parking in front of a neighbours gate and/or on their front lawn is a problem what the heck does that say about qualifications and what is he teaching his pupils ! Whatever happened to neighbourly politeness go figure !
I don't think says anything about his driving qualifications, it says he doesn't like his neighbour!
|
|
|
|
The IAM was visible recently near here, as their caravan overturned on the A45 near Northampton.
ROTFLMAO
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the interesting response.
Clk Sec
|
I came across an Astra estate on the A55 on Sunday with an IAM badge on the back.
The driver proceeded to regularly and randomly alter his speed, twice doing so in a way which meant he boxed me in just as I was approaching a slower car and needing to overtake.
I hope to God the sticker was left over from a previous owner.
|
Hey
you try keeping a constant speed while lighting your pipe!
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
|
|
With the top down and wearing string gloves.
|
|
I've been contemplating the IAM for a while (under 40, no pipe or gloves) at least to get my driving assessed since it's ten years since anyone did that. There's a group that meets so close to my house it wouldn't be worth driving to. Should I just roll up and introduce myself, or is there something more formal I need to do?
|
The last IAM member I met ( 20 years ago) had no idea that a car ( out of petrol) could be shifted out of a dangerous position by sticking it in first gear and turning the key.
I had to do this for her in the middle of a junction. Hopefully a one off.
|
|
|
|
My wife and I are both members, have been since 1979 when we were both in our 20s (those were the days!
I can assure you that we aren't pipe-smoking fuddy duddys, but I can see where you are coming from. We drive large performance cars safely, consistently, and with respect for other road users - and we don't hang around doing it.
|
this has caught my eye.
I like the idea of IAM, but suspect being fairly young with a fairly powerful sports car they'd just dismiss me as a "boy racer" who wants to thrash his car around.
Well, I am of course, but I want to do it as safe as possible.
Can anyone advise what the membership / course tuition fees are like?
Or should I just get "the art of roadcraft" out of the library and teach myself?
Ian
|
Ian G I passed my IAM test aged 17 and 8 months - over 20 years ago. Soon after I was an observer for the local group and one of the first new attendees I took out was in his 20s and had a brand new Astra GTE 16v. After a few weeks I observed him again and asked him how he was going.
He said he was thinking about his driving much more so knew when to open the car up, when to be steady and as a result enjoyed driving it so much more. It's not about shuffling the steering wheel - its about making progress safely and within the law, being aware of others, being prepared for the unexpected and thinking about what you are doing rather than finding fault in others whose driving you can't influence.
As a result you become more aware, your driving becomes smoother, your vehicle requires less maintenance and your licence stays clean, but all the time you can still get the most from your car where the conditions allow.
I've no idea on current costs and I am no lnger a member, but what I learnt has stayed with me.
|
I understand what you are saying davejp but often i find it bemusing how some IAM drive. I am too working towards doing my advanced driving test and attempt to stay safe at all costs so why not have something to show for it.
However this weekend i witnessed a IAM member driving so slowly i just cannot fatham how that can be safe, doing 40 in a 50 and taking a long time to reach 40. It was a straight road for as a far as the eye could see with no turnings or housing. It was just surrounded by fields and ran past some power station chimneys. I used the opportunity to practice an overtake.
Why go 10mph or so under the speed limit in such conditions... it was bone dry too. I noticed him in my rear view mirror 5 mins later through a 30 going around 25 which is fair enough considering the pedestrians, cyclists, children, turnings and a school. But why drive so slowly all the time, it annoys people and introduces tailgating and rage which is much more dangerous.
|
However this weekend i witnessed a IAM member driving so slowly i just cannot fatham how that can be safe doing 40 in a 50 and taking a long time to reach 40. It was a straight road for as a far as the eye could see with no turnings or housing. It was just surrounded by fields and ran past some power station chimneys. I used the opportunity to practice an overtake.
How do you know (s)he was an IAM member?
If you are working toward your test then you should know that the drill is (for example) to accelerate briskly up to NSL after leaving a 30mph zone. Similarly smooth braking at end of NSL for lower limit. The key is smoothness and consistency with good anticipation. You are expected to drive to the speed limit if conditions permit. Dawdling 10mph below limit would be frowned upon by an IAM observer and I would think you would know that. However, passing the advanced test doesn't make you the perfect driver for ever more.....
|
I can't declare that i know everything but the things you mentioned i have been studying and practicing so i have a better chance at doing well in my test.
I knew he was an IAM driver simply by the IAM badge and the AA badge bolted to the front of his new Skoda as i checked my rear view after i passed. He also had a passenger mirror installed for his wife.
|
|
|
|
this has caught my eye. I like the idea of IAM but suspect being fairly young with a fairly powerful sports car they'd just dismiss me as a "boy racer" who wants to thrash his car around.
Well, I have turned up to more than one meeting in my Skyline GTR which knocks out well over 400bhp and would snap your head of your shoulders if it weren't for the head restraints - and they haven't dismissed me. There is also a youngish regular who drives a Porsche.
|
IAM offer a 'Skills for Life' package - membership of local branch, book, test fee and observed runs etc at a cost of £85. Quite a bargain I think. Link here:
www.iam.org.uk/eshop/membershipshop/sfl.htm
I suspect a lot of the 'anti-IAM' stuff comes about because, like much in life these days, people can't be bothered to learn to do something properly and everyone thinks they are a good driver. It might be comforting to imagine that IAM members are all pipe-smoking old buffers who drive everywhere at 30mph - but its nowhere near the truth. Getting to the stage at which you can take the test and stand a chance of passing it requires a good few hours of observed runs and much 'reflective driving' in between. Failing to make appropriate progress would likely get you a fail. Much of the IAM driving 'methodology' is adapted directly from Police driver training.
|
|
|
I am quite young too and working towards doing my advanced driving, more so i can maintain driving safely. I've been driving for 7 years now, owning average cars with average power. Now i have bought something a lot faster i want to learn how to drive to my best abilities and remain safe, knowledgeable enough to handle the speed.
Its not all about driving faster at all, i dont make a habit and breaking the limit, naturally i like making use of the power and making "progress" but i would like to know how to do this safely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I passed the IAM test in 1993 as a 19 year old, and I really can't argue with anything that they teach about roadcraft and hazard perception/anticipation and observation. It is just common sense stuff and should be the standard test imo. Where they do fall down is on still (well in 93 anyway) advocating some strange techniques such as shuffling the steering wheel and not changing gear at the same time as braking, both of which are totally out of date.
|
I doubt if shuffling the wheel is still a requirement. The DSA have not insisted on that on the L test for years, although instructors still teach it because it is the quickest way to get a novice to steer accurately, as strange as that may seem.
I agree with you on changing down. I don't see how it is possible to approach a downhill corner without doing both together.
--
|
I agree with you on changing down. I don't see how it is possible to approach a downhill corner without doing both together.
Brake to reduce speed, then depress the clutch and change gear? That is what I would do, for right or wrong. (I never was criticised for BGO, so I am not quite sure how to do it, and why it is wrong.)
|
|
|
|
Brake gear overlap is still frowned upon.
I took some lessons with one group and gave up after I nearly crashed due to the observer continually telling me what to do. I'm not sure what the purpose was. Maybe it was to teach me to ignore an irritating passenger as that is what I should have done. I ended the lesson feeling very very angry and wound up. He went out for a drive with a colleague and reduced her to tears. By all accounts her driving is awful, but she was discourage from joining by his behaviour. Anyway, I got a phone message from another observer saying he would take me on. But I was not keen. Most members were indeed geriatric, and some including the acting chairman were decidedly strange.
That said, the IAM do teach a lot of very useful stuff, and it is well worth taking lessons, and reading some of the books. Learning about the gears, anticipation, forward observation and so on are useful skills. Some of the more prissy stuff is irritating, and I doubt it comes from the police training. Could IAM training save your life? Maybe.
|
the not changing gear whilst braking stuff works very well...but takes some getting used to
it is done to ensure that you have not rushed in to anything.. and have sorted out your speed first, before the gear change or the turning the corner or whatever comes next, etc
many people rush into things and the insistence on doing it all in a sequence separately irons this out........a keen driver can sneak them in again afterwards to some extent, but by then you've learnt how to do it properly
think about the racing technique of approaching a corner 'slow in, fast out'........vaguely similar in principle
|
>>Where they do fall down is on still (well in 93 anyway) advocating some strange techniques such as shuffling the steering wheel and not changing gear at the same time as braking, both of which are totally out of date.
I am baffled that anyone thinks these techniques are 'out of date'. AFAIK the seperation of braking and gearshifting (i,e, avoiding brake-gear overlap) is still taught by the Police driving schools and also with ROSPA, as well as the IAM. Its basic car control...
BGO is a 'lazy' way to drive. As an ex-IAM Observer it was always the issue that most candidates struggled with - mainly because in the basic driving test you are allowed to get away with it. It amazed me how many drivers would be attempting to take a corner with one foot on the brake, another on the clutch, one hand on the wheel and another on the gear lever! The car completely 'unbalanced' and only under partial control. I'm often behind cars driven like this - they swing fast into a corner, understeering wide, and then almost come to a stop after the apex of the corner. Its the very opposite of what they should be doing.
Braking before the corner (keeping foot off the clutch) and then slipping in a fast gearchange as you come off 3rd stage braking is the way to do it. Once you get the 'knack' you'll be amazed you did it any other way. Like I said though, almost everyone thinks he/she is a good driver and many drivers resent the Observer highlighting their mistakes.
There ARE circumstances when BGO is acceptable - turning off from a steep downhill road for example.
|
The descent does nor have to be steep to make BGO acceptable. Even on a fairly gentle gradient to a slow corner the car will gain speed as ou declutch, so it is nescessary to keep on the brake. Paul Ripley was critical of that aspect of the IAM's teaching when he had his column in the Telegraph's motoring section.
The IAM do a good job overall, but many of their members slavishly follow the "System" without really understanding it. You cannot follow every rule to the letter on every occassion, because you may come across a situation where a different course is nescessary to stay safe.
--
|
Doesn't the IAM teach heel-and-toe (in suitable cars of course... pedal positions don't always favour it)? That eliminates any possibility of awkwardness resulting from BGO.
|
|
|
The descent does nor have to be steep to make BGO acceptable. Even on a fairly gentle gradient to a slow corner the car will gain speed as ou declutch so it is nescessary to keep on the brake. Paul Ripley was critical of that aspect of the IAM's teaching when he had his column in the Telegraph's motoring section.
As I said in my post above, you do a quick downshift as you come off third stage braking - it ain't difficult once you master it... No real interest in what Paul Ripley thinks - I believe seperation of gearshift and braking is taught at Hendon (Met Police), by ROSPA and pretty well any other driver education body you could think of. It DOES work, both from a 'driver workload' perspective and from the physics of weight transfer on the chassis.
The IAM do a good job overall but many of their members slavishly follow the "System" without really understanding it.
How do you know this? How many IAM members have you 'tested'?
>>You cannot follow every rule to the letter on everyoccassion because you may come across a situation where a different course is nescessary to stay safe. --
Of course that is true. But you need a frame of reference to begin with.
|
As a relatively new IAM member (well 3 years now ;) ) the training on how to set the car up for bends to stay balanced through it was one of the most useful pieces of learning. Separating gear change and braking, though tricky for me while unlearning BGO, not only gives me more control of the car around bends but makes the whole experience more comfortable for passengers who don't get thrown around due to the forces on the car fighting with each other.
Mind you, on a fun day course at Silverstone, I was then the one who on the high speed brake and steer bit (ABS demo) forgot to touch the clutch at all lol - the electronic gearbox just shouted surrender and sulked for a few minutes before returning to normal ;)
Driving is more fun since the IAM test - the examiner (ex-Police) talked about how much he enjoys cross country runs, challenging himself to drive as far as possible without use of the brake, unless the unexpected arises.
R40
ps I'm not old, though my 9 year old lad would disagree, and I don't wear the gloves or hat, though I do enjoy driving the Rover, as well as an E30 325i :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
