Anyone who happened to see recent messages about the diesel Yaris and the Honda Jazz might recall 'spud' having taken the plunge and getting one of the first D4D Yaris's to be delivered in the UK.
I scratched my head long and hard and followed his example and sent my deposit off today. It's coming from the Netherlands, as per my present Auto Yaris, but won't be here till August or September. Trouble is, the good lady wife doesn't want to get rid of an Auto in favour of a Manual. I, on the other hand, fancy something that does 50 or 60 to the gallon. We'll have to fight that out nearer the time.
So one of them will be up for grabs in the Autumn, or if neither of us give in we'll be a two Yaris family and my trusty Maestro will be shaking in it's boots with an uncertain future.
KB.
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Nice one KB. Did you ever get to have a test drive in the Yaris? only I heard
of a number of Toyota dealers who wouldn't get one in as a demonstrator.
They expected people to test drive the 1.3 vvti and then order the D-4D.
I'm chuffed with mine. It's so quiet-just like a petrol with similar performance.
I haven't been in a filling station since I got it, and that suits me just fine.
Also, did you test drive the Jazz? If so, what did you think of the quality of
the ride? I thought it was a lovely car, but the ride was very harsh. The Yaris
feels like a little limo in comparison.
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KB: Have you protected yourself against Sterling falling against the Euro, and also against pre-tax prices in Holland rising to a standard pan-European level by September.
HJ
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Spud, No and No. I haven't driven the diesel - am trusting that it will be as nice as you have found it to be. And I also noted the comments re. the Jazz ride and would have driven it if I'd considered it more, however, the supplier of the Yaris is one that I trust and the deal was good (£2850 off list) for the CDX 5 door and I have found Toyota to be very good in their attitude towards imports and have a dealer a short walk away from me. Also it's easier to get it delivered to Dartford Docks, rather than collect from Ostend. I still wish the Yaris boot was bigger and I did like the seating arrangements in the Jazz along with the bigger boot. I think Toyota should do what Mercedes did with the A Class, and make a longer version - it doesn't HAVE to be so short.
I do, though, find the Yaris seating position higher and easier to enter than the Jazz seemed and ditto the new Polo and this is good for me.
HJ. I've only just sent the deposit by Electronic transfer with the rate at 1.615 Euro's, which is OK at the moment. If need be, I will buy all the remaining Euro's to protect the rate. I must take a chance on the price going up in the Netherlands as I have done in the past - but feel that at £2850 off list at present, it's unlikely to go up so much as to make it not worthwhile. I might be proved wrong, in which case you will be entitled, with justification, to say ' I told you so'.
I did get prices on Renault's in Belgium and Holland as well as the Suzuki Jimny. Both were not competitive and indeed I've recently seen the Jimny in the UK at £7695 - this doesn't seem dear for a new (albeit small) capable off roader with 3 years warranty and it was dearer abroad.
I don't know whether I can fix the Yaris price by paying in full - not everyone would want to pay up in full in advance for fear of unexpected disappearance of said firm.
Thank you for pointing those points out though and come back with any further thoughts that might be relevant.
Regards,
KB.
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KB,
When I imported my Pug 406 from Holland a couple of years ago, I entered into a 'Forward Contract' with my bankers to buy an amount of Dutch Guilders, whereby we agreed the exchange rate at some point in the future (approx three months if memory serves me right). Clearly this type of arrangement would protect you from a sudden slide on sterling, although obviously the bank are also gambling on the rate going below what they agree with you. I understand that this type of contract is quite common for large foreign currency purchases.
The upshot of the deal? Well, as it happened things didn't move much on the Sterling/Guilder front during the three months, but I did come out slightly on top. This practice also provides fine (albeit nervous) entertainment in the period leading up to the contract maturity date - I became obsessed with checking the rate shifts on a bi-daily basis!
Hope it works out in your favour...
Phil T
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On a forward contract I can't see KB getting the rate of 1.61(pound euro)
Also beware of high bank fees for this facility.
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Moosh,
I didn't pay any extortionate fees for this service. I had a Gold Service account with Lloyds Bank which gave me commission free currency purchases. As far as I recall there were no additional costs over and above what the bank gambled on making on the Forward Contract rate. They did of course charge me to electronically wire the bulk of the money to the Dutch dealer the day I went over to collect the vehicle (I hand carried the rest). I'll see if I can dig out my original paperwork to confirm my memory of events.
Cheers
Phil T
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jimny imports ive seen at supermarkets in uk have no stereo/clock etc and so you should budget a few quid if you take one on, uk supplied ones have this kind of stuff
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What is this with the delivery times ?
The last 4 or 5 cars I have bought new have either been in North or South America, which I realise is not the same as Europe, but..
I have never waited longer than 24 hours to have the car in my possession and typically, in the US or Chile, its the same day.
If you told your average american punter to wait 6 months for his new car, you simply would not make a sale.
The UK car market and its approach seems to be totally out of whack with the rest of the world.
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lengthy delay here is for a foreign dealer to get a right hand drive car which will always be a special in his country
try buying in ireland where they are also right hand drive and there is a ready supply
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Allegedly it's to give better stock control by the manufacturer. I think it's to stop dealers having to store cars for months and pay for them before they are sold.
It is daft though, I like to see before I buy and buying new you usually can't these days.
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Mark. It is normal to wait this length of time for a factory order. You can buy 'off the shelf' models from brokers who have popular models in stock. this, however, is not the case with Yaris's - especially diesels, as they are so new .
KB.
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KB,
You walk into a Californian dealer. Specify the car you want, drive it. Specify the options/colour you want. Take it home that day.
I have bought new cars in UK, US & various South American Countries. Only in the UK is this delay inflicted upon the purchaser.
Of course they should hold bloody stock. That's their job. Goodness knwos where else they add value. The supermarkets have the right idea - admit your serice is crap and doesn't consider the consumer's desires - then charge less.
The biggest problem with customer service and the service industry as a whole in the UK is the British consumer's willingness to accept appalling and strive for mediocre from his suppliers and feel happy with either.
M.
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if you walked into any car dealer in the states and ordered a right hand drive car i guarantee it would be a special order and not be available for weeks
stop being silly
once again you assume you are the only one who travels!
he is buying his right hand drive yaris in a country where left hand drive is the norm...
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KB may be obtaining his new from europe but thread drift had moved by the time Mark made his addition... In the US If I walk in to a Jag dealer and he does not have the exact spec of 4 wheel drive X model (say British Racing Green with the popup GPS Navigator but not the 18" rims (making this up by the way so no nagging in details) he gets on his computer and checks instantly the stock not only on the dockside in Newark NJ but at every dealer within 500 miles chances are tha a dealer much closer than that will have one or Jag Usa... and it will be on a transporter within 24hours and I will my car in less than 3 days If it is a really weird special XK-* with custom Paint and Zebra Hide seats I would expect to wait perhaps 6 week fo it to be built
As to standard US made (well north america anyway) cars like a mustang I would be amazed if even the oddest combination of options was not on hand in the stock of a,say, Greater Boston MA ford dealer and I indeed could have my car just the way i want it the same day... it is down to volume of production and volume of sales... outside of car rental firms and few things like Gov agency and utility company fleet sales are not a major part of the USS market nor are Lease cars as a Job perk.... that means that most cars are bought new by the man or woman in the street and wants to have what he wants when he walks in or he just drives 20 miles to the next dealer (hence the interchange networks where the punter may never know that the car is in another dealers lot... "yes sir we have that it just out at the detailers being prepared for sale be here for you in an hour or so can i take you and your wife out to lunch and it will be ready for you when we get back)
One large Eastern New England dealer has in stock at any one time several thousand new cars (he and his sons have dealerships for about 8 or 9 makes) and he has NO DEBT every car on his lots is owned by him free and clear hence he has no interest payments and has the lowest prices around... hence the huge volume....
yes some special new cars will be on allocation like the Prowler etc etc but I would expect that 80% of New US car and light truck trade is done "on the spot"
Of course that's just my opinion... I could be wrong
Randolph Lee
Nantucket Island USA
PS: Am I the only one starting to be put off by folks hideing behind :handles:... What is wrong with using your real name and perhaps even a line or two of where your home is when you sign your missives to this list... I thought that sort of handle stuff went out with CB radios
~R
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Crazed,
>once again you assume you are the only one who travels!
Everybody knows you travel as well; partly we know this because we are clever, and partly because you keep mentioning it. I, personally, am really very everso impressed with your knowledge and experience
I don't know why you are so paranoid about this, but you really would benefit from dealing with your insecurities.
To help you out and to try and minimize your concerns -
NB: EVERYBODY - I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO TRAVELS, AND CRAZED HAS BEEN PLACES TOO.
Would it help if we say that you have been to more places than anyone ever and certainly 10 times more places than I even know exist ?
- Better now ?
If you look carefully, you will see another note of mine mentioning that I was not talking about special order cars, I was talking about normally available cars.
Now, do you agree that cars are typically available more quickly in the US than they are in the UK, or are you still too worried that everybody knows that I am not the only person who travels to be able to concentrate ?
M.
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depends depends
the vw bug caused big probs in US cos they couldnt satisfy demand
and yea for bog standard cars with simple colour choice and simple selection of options typically the US can satisfy from stock
higher range maufacters want to supply from the factory and not from stock because then they can pander to subtle stuff such as colour of seatbelts at minimal cost to them cos you get precisely what you order, and this will always take a few weeks to delivery - as it will in the US
dont agree that US is better in all regards
dont think we are perfect either
to be honest biggest thing im surprized that doesnt happen is mass imports of second hand cars from japan as they have in new zealand and auz, japan is right hand drive too, and they routinely fail their own MOT at a few years when the cars are OK and get sold abroad (as the taliban know) - It must be economic to import these but all we ever get are MX5's -
anyways Mark you in the UK yet ? have a good trip...
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We are talking about personal imports here, not UK supplied vehicles. Perhaps you have got the wrong end of the stick. You don't normally wait 4-6 months for such cars - you just pay more for them. There are still big differences between UK supplied and imported cars.
KB.
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True- I got the wrong end of the import stick.
However, aside from that the service and timing from UK dealers seems to be a long way away from what most of the world is prepared to accept.
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Thanks to all including the advice from Phil T.
KB.
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Moosh, I'll keep an eye on the rate and if it looks like dropping will buy the full amount and keep it in a foreign currency account which my bank will maintain for free albeit with a tiny amount of interest.
KB.
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Yes that's the best way.
The bank would charge you if they had to take the risk in exchange rate movements.
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"I'll keep an eye on the rate and if it looks like dropping will buy the full amount"
Best of luck but I don't think you'll be able to move quickly enough, particularly if something dramatic happened e.g. a devaluation of the pound. Unlikely perhaps but I believe the pound has got to fall substantially if we are to join the Eurozone. You can't have your cake and eat it. Either you buy the Euros now, by paying for them (or entering into a forward contract) or you bear the currency risk.
In reply to Moosh's comment, the bank is not taking a risk on exchange rates with a forward contract. As I understand it, the Euros are bought and allocated when the forward contract is effected. The lower exchange rates on a forward contract reflect only the difference in interest rates between the 2 currencies concerned i.e. Euro interest rates are lower than on Sterling.
Note that if tempted to use a currency dealer to buy Euros or a forward contract, that these organisations are unregulated by the government and there is no compensation scheme. 200 or so people lost their money when Exchange-Direct folded last December, apparently due to a senior member of the company helping himself to clients funds and disappearing. Any dealings with banks (or building societies) are, of course, 100% safe.
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Keithb,
You're making me nervous. I think I'll raid the piggy bank and buy them and put them in the aforementioned account.
KB.
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Sorry KB. Didn't want to worry you. When I was in the same position as you, the exchange rate was reasonable (but off its best) and I was very happy with the saving on the car at that rate. So, I decided to protect the saving with a forward contract. As it happened, 6 months later the exchange rate was about the same but it had been up and down in the meantime. Having the forward contract meant one less thing to think about.
HJ mentioned price increases. Although the price of my car didn't increase for the Dutch market, BMW increased the RHD surcharge by £200 or so while I was waiting. I don't know of any way I could have protected the original price.
Interesting comments from Mark (Brazil) re car buyers in California driving away the same day. But I assume those comments don't apply to BMW etc. where cars are built to order and the possible combinations of options runs into millions. Or do dealers keep stocks of the most popular specs for immediate delivery? In the UK, I've always bought in stock Fords, Citroens etc and have driven away in a few days. No reason why it couldn't have been same day I suppose if dealers geared up to it.
Hope all goes well, KB.
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A forward contract is an expensive way of doing it. Open an international bank account in Euros and transfer the money from your sterling account. All the big banks and building societies have them, with varying charges. The building societies are likely to be cheapest. If you open a current account with one of them to transfer the money from they probably won't even charge you. Euros are cheap at the moment, but the Euro economies are growing faster the UK's. Buy them now.
Chris
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Thanks again for advice.
KB.
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KB: The best way for you to sleep soundly without worrying about on exchange rate fluctuations - either up or down - is to do the following:
Decide now on a fixed date for every month.
On that date, "religiously" buy Euros worth a fixed sterling amount (say £1000), regardless of the exchange rate. Do this over your 5 or 6 months wait for the delivery date. This is known in the trade as "pound cost averaging". The method works even better with smaller periods, say once a week or even once a day. But for the sums you are talking about, I would suggest stick to once a month, unless you can find a low-cost or commission free exchange dealer. Compare rates of exchange - in the past I have found Nationwide Building Society and Thomas Cook to give the best rates. Over the six months, you will lose interest of about 2 to 3 % max, asuming you had the money in a high interest account.
Foreign exchange dealers who do not charge commission are the Post Office, or Nationwide BS (who charge a fixed delivery fee).
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Watchout for exchange dealers who don't charge you commission, but give a poor exchange rate instead.
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Moosh
You'll find the currency rates offered by international banking organizations are very good. They make their money by dealing in large sums, rather than the few hundreds tourists change at any one time. I've just checked, and Nationwide does not charge for transferring money between its international accounts and its sterling current account. It exchanges at the commercial rate.
Chris
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Quote "commercial RATE " of exchange
This is a moving target and depends on how large the figure involved e.g. 1 million or perhaps £1,000 .
Commercial rates are flexible, depends on the amount involved.
Remember your dealing with bankers here, and as we all know they don't work for nothing.
Thanks for your information anyway.
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But this works only if the exchange rate increases over the period. If the exchange rate falls during the period, then the average cost of the Euros rises and a forward contract would have been the best bet. As I said before, you either bear the currency risk or you buy now. Pound cost averaging is as much a gamble as buying now or buying when the car is ready.
Using Thomas Cook or the Post Office is not appropriate here as KB does not want Euro notes and he will get the tourist rate rather than the higher commercial rate. This is because they are Bureaux de Change, not currency dealers.
I don't know what rate Nationwide give if you buy notes in the UK but everyone travelling abroad should have a Nationwide credit card or current account card. They are the only organisation which gives the commercial rate on card transactions - about 4% more than other cards/bureaux de change. This also applies when drawing cash abroad from an ATM although there's a 0.5% charge when drawing cash on their credit card.
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Keithb obviously does not know the meaning of hedging. It is there to reduce risk against movements up or down. Pound cost averaging works by exposing you to the currency rate spread over a given period during which it may go up all through the period, down all through the period, or up & down during the period. The point is, you cannot forecast the future and so by averaging you reduce the risk of currency fluctuations - you amy gain, you may lose, but probably not as much in either direction as without the averaging.
I am involved in hedging activities regularly, and know of many large PLCs invoolved in export/import who would not survive from one year to next without hedging.
AFAIK/TBOMK - Nationwide BS is best for overseas transactions using credit cards, debit cards or its International account for Euros. They do not rip you off with transaction charges, or high conversion costs, or loaded foreign currency costs.
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I know the meaning of hedging and pound cost averaging. I use the latter to buy unit trusts but over a period of many years. Anyway, you seem to have agreed with or repeated everything I said. I can see that averaging may be a useful strategy for an import/export company but we're talking here about a one off import in a short period with infrequent currency purchases. As you say, you cannot forecast the future. Therefore, all currency purchases are a gamble so there is a lot to be said for securing the current rate if it produces a good saving on the car. That is the only way to remove uncertainty and sleep soundly.
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KB,
30 posts so far!
Good job you never asked for advice on that new pushbike too.
David
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......is a better option.
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Lots of stuff coming in here. I really didn't mean to open such a can of Euro-worms.
The way I've bought my currency for previous vehicles purchased from Europe is to ring the bank (it's one of those phone only banks) - get put through to the foreign department - get a rate (I think they like to refer to it as a commercial rate, rather than the "holiday currency rate"), then send the deposit electronically to the destination, then at various further stages, buy more and put them in a foreign currency account set up by the bank at, as said before, no charge but with little interest. Then a week or so before collection - send the balance. The fee for this was £17 per transaction (now £20). As I said, yesterdays rate was 1.615.
The advice received here is, it seem, split between buying it all now to preserve the rate or to buy monthly (which is more or less what I used to do), to acheive pound/cost averaging.
Being of a slightly fiscally nervous disposition I might buy, at least the majority soon, to avoid the, albeit perhaps slight, chance of major falls.
Very grateful, though, for the interest shown here.
Regards,
KB.
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I might not have made it clear that the £20 fee was to send the money to a European bank, not to carry out the purchase of Euro's.
KB.
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Indeed, DW. The few occasions that cycling crops up in conversation here, it appears not to find favour, with a number of people finding cyclists to be a bit of a nuisance - sometimes holding up drivers or riding on the pavement or in some other way causing annoyance. Bit of a shame as I know so many who don't fit this pattern and try to co-exist as peacefully as possible. It's the case that I've never been terrorised or affronted by a cyclist when driving or walking - but when cycling, have been verbally and almost physically abused by drivers on more than one occasion. One driver thought it a wheeze to drive straight at me, only veering away at the very last moment. Others drive past with their hand on the horn and laughing - finding it all very funny. Only yesterday, I received the magazine of an over 40's cycling club and in it was an article written by a 70 something year old who was recently dragged off his bike in a country lane and grabbed by the scruff of his neck and taught a whole new vocabulary and informed that if the said driver and said cyclist were to meet under similar circumstances again - the said cyclist would have his life terminated. But no-one's perfect and, especially in London, you do see examples of frightening acts of.......whatever the word is....and I can see why there is friction there.
It's too soon to get much feedback from drivers of diesel Yaris's as they're so new to the market - hence the thread containing more financial info. than car related stuff. All gratefully received however. Hope to hear of anyone else's experience of the car in due course.
Did you get on to CSMA as suggested? What was the outcome of your deliberations?
Trust the recent weather has given you an excuse to cruise the lanes in L/R.
Regards,
KB.
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Enjoy cycling too, great fun to get the old mountain bike out and really beat the system.
Have a look at the new thread about the breakdown cover.
Weather is excellent so far, we started our "hols at home" on thurs so three days sun is good for easter.
After a paid job this morning I'm hauling the head off the Land Rover again, fitting a rather more carefully overhauled one next week...you just can't get the staff!
David
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>and yea for bog standard cars with simple colour choice and simple selection of options typically the US can satisfy from stock
Actually, it is surprising how many of the complex configurations are also readily available. Friend of mine bought a Lincoln Navigator about 4 months ago. Got the options/colour/configuration he wanted within 24 hours.
>and this will always take a few weeks to delivery - as it will in the US
Clearly some are nto immed. available, however even then my experience is that in the Us it is not a few weeks.
>>dont agree that US is better in all regards. dont think we are perfect either
Oh don't get me wrong, that wasn't my point at all. Just about the availability of cars.
How long does it take if the exact car you want is sat on a UK forecourt and you are paying cash. (Serious question, I have no idea). In the US, this would be measured in minutes, or at least one or two hours.
>anyways Mark you in the UK yet ? have a good trip...
Thanks. Arrive towards the end of this month.
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If its on that dealers forecourt...
How long does it take if the exact car you want is sat on a UK forecourt and you are paying cash. (Serious question, I have no idea). In the US, this would be measured in minutes, or at least one or two hours.
as long as it takes for you to get an insurance certificate with the reg number on it, and for them to take it to the nearest postoffice (or not as some dealers can now issue tax discs, and register cars, themselfs) to get the tax disc and register it
can be the same afternoon or day, although typically they want some time to do the PDI (and make up the reg plates) or service depending on whether it is brand new or second hand
If its on another dealers forecourt or in a pound at the docks or in corby or whereever, its usually 3 to 4 days depending
We are not a third world country you know!
You can pay by switch card these days which saves cost of bankers draft and risk of cash, switch is presumably tranacted at no cost to dealer unlike visa/matercard etc
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so significantly longer than it takes in the US then.
Thank you, that was the first part of my query.
The second is why people would not only accept it, but actually defend it ?
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as long as it takes for you to get an insurance certificate with the reg number on it,
This bit is pretty much out of the dealers control
and for them to take it to the nearest postoffice (or not as some dealers can now issue tax discs, and register cars, themselfs) to get the tax disc and register it
For dealers who are allowed to register and tax cars themselves this can be done pretty much straight away (while you have a coffee)
can be the same afternoon or day, although typically they want some time to do the PDI (and make up the reg plates)
Presumably you'd like a PDI doing rather than relying on checks done a few weeks ago when car first arrived at dealers ?
or service depending on whether it is brand new or second hand
If its on another dealers forecourt or in a pound at the docks or in corby or whereever, its usually 3 to 4 days depending
agree there is room for improvement here, but speeding up supply chain will push up costs a little, I'm sure if you offered to pay a little more to have a special transporter run it could be done next day - free market economics
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I'm thinking of buying a Yaris, Could you supply me with the name and no. of this netherlands dealer please?
Alf
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