How dry is it? How well ventilated is it? How practical is the access? Is it in an area of high natural Radon?
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
|
How dry is it? - not sure! currently being used for wine and storage of scuba gear. There was what looked like a small dehumidifier in the corner.
Ventilation - don't know! (seeing a pattern here?) The window opens!
Access - proper staircase down from dining room.
Radon - not according to friends who live 3 doors up the road.
The brickwork is really quite nice and if it could stay exposed that would be a bonus. There's no floor to speak of, just dirt/grit.
|
|
|
|
Rebecca, What do you define as being a useable room. Plastered walls...central heating etc?.
As already stated dryness and ventilation are the principal factors.
Many cellars in those days have been tanked... This was to make them watertight and was basically a bitumen type material on the inner wall.
You have light and power so assume you would really need to tart it up to make it look nice.
And someone to catch the spiders?.
|
Basic facts
Your cellar (or technically a basement as it has natural light) is dug out of the ground and the only thing separating you from the earth is a porous brick wall. Ventilation and a dehumidifier will assist, but it is not yet the pace I would want my children to sit in watching TV etc.
You will be unable to retain view of the bricks.
The simplet option is to use an experienced contractor in this type of work. You can either 'tank it' i.e. apply bitumen to the walls, but this is not ideal in these circumstances. Ideally, you want to fix stainless steel battens to the walls and fix plastic lined waterproof board over then and then skim with plaster. You raise the floor slightly, by laying a coat of concrete on a 1000 guage of polythene. Install a nice new window that can be locked in the night vent position, or (and this is what we do in our office where we store papers) keep a 4" toilet fan running 24hours to draw out the moist air. Then you can use the basement as a proper room.
How do I know all this - see my profile. it my job to understand when they go wrong!
Any other solution is cheap and prone to failure. This solution is not cheap, but not hugely expensive as the hard work of digging out the hole was done over 100 years ago. As a proper room it 'will' add value to your home. Go for it.
|
Our house has a cellar (an Edwardian semi-detached). Sometimes damp/water seeps up through the floor and walls are a bit damp. Not a problem because used for storage. Many years ago, trouble with sewage pipes ended up with raw sewage in the cellar! Long before I moved in but my wife lived here then. United Utilities replaced the problem bit - for free since it's a shared drive.
Next door neighbour (the other half of the "detached house") had their cellar converted and used it as a play room. The mirror of our house so they have overcome the damp/water problems we see. A few months ago when there was the torrential rains,.... problem with local drains resulted in their cellar flooding which included sewage. Everything including toys, carpet, skirting had to be replaced. They were told this was random and could happen again... there was no fix.
Perhaps you'd be better converting the attic? Our neighbour did that too and these houses are massive.
|
My late parents had the cellar of their Victorian property fully converted into a two-bedroomed living area, mainly because it was so dry and the additional living space was required.
It was done about 20 years ago; there has never been any problem with damp even though it is well below the level of the road and you have to go down several steps to reach the main door at the side of the property.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
|
|
How do I know all this - see my profile. it my job to understand when they go wrong!
Espada is bang on. I also carry out these type of works for a living. Done correctly it can only add value.
VBR.................................MD.
|
Martin
here's that tenner I owe you!
|
Espada's advice is spot on, but I would add that if the ground conditions permit, trying to clear away anything on the outside of the building that is up against the wall will only help to reduce the amount of moisture penetrating the walls - prevention better than cure.
Clearly you may not be able to do any major excavations, but there may be lots of easily solvable problems like vegetation,soil needlessly stacked against the walls, rain water flowing towards the wall or standing adjacent to it, broken guttering etc.
If Espada's solution could be coupled with through wall natural ventilation, then all the better, the problem with tanking etc is that moisture always goes somewhere.
|
Rebecca,
Also check the ceiling height - bear in mind that adding a proper floor will reduce this, so make sure you'll have enough headroom. Otherwise, you'll have to consider digging down - which will increase the cost considerably.
BTW, I'm confused why someone using a cellar to store wine would install a dehumifier - damp is better for wine!
- Gromit
|
Damp is better for wine? Not exactly damp per say but a realtive humidity of 70% is required to prevent cork shrinkage, a *constant* temperature of 12c and darkness required to prevent premature aging.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
|
WINE
Damp is not good for wine. That'll be the end of the labels and you won't know what you're drinking... Dry air is worse as the corks may dry out - although the moisture coming from the inside of the bottle (wine) should provide sufficient moisture without ill effect for quite some years no matter how dry the atmosphere.
If you own the chateau a damp cellar is fine, as you will not put the labels on until you sell the wine.
TANKING
Going back to the tanking question, I had my plasterer tank my coal hole (which is under the front garden of the house at basement level - maybe 12 feet long, 6' tall where it touches the house, reducing to 4' at the far end). I intend to use the hole for wine storage. He used a plaster-type render that he told me was waterproof, and then used finishing plaster on it. Needless to say, it leaked, and chunks fell off. He repaired the holes, but unfortunately the water still comes in.
He is now suggesting using a bitumen paint over the finishing plaster. I can only imagine that whilst it might keep the water out, I imagine that inevitably chunks will again come off as a result of the hydrostatic pressure. I dare say that I shall have to adopt the polythene sheeting approach.
Thanks in advance
|
> He is now suggesting using a bitumen paint over the finishing plaster. I can only imagine that whilst it might keep the water out, I imagine that inevitably chunks will again come off as a result of the hydrostatic pressure. >
Horrible method of keeping things water proof. It won't work. PLastic method much better,
|
Thanks, Espada, my thoughts too.
So hack it all off and start again? Tedious and expensive for a coal hole. Does a chemical tanking ever work - as opposed to the plastic solution? There's somebody called VANDEX who claim great results for a chemical tanking - have you heard of them?
|
Being truthful, whilst I know about these things, the latest innovations tend to pass me by in favour of traditional and time tested solutions.
As the space is being used purely for wine storage, I'm not sure what i would do. Does it matter if its a little damp? My father uses 12" lengths of 4" clay pipe to sore his wine in such conditions. Seems to keep the wine very well.
|
It's too damp for wine labels and their cardboard boxes (which would collapse with disastrous result), so useless for that. There's water dribbling in very slowly in several spots.
I'm likely to be moving house shortly, and I fear it won't impress the buyer's surveyor. What do you think?
Perhaps a layer of waterproofing paint will confound his damp meter?
|
Its a waste of time tanking the plaster with bitumen. The plaster gets damp behind the bitumen, has no chance to dry out and hence falls off, taking the bitumen with it.
I do hear of a process whereby the walls can be sprayed with a waterproof fibreglass resin that drys to an impervious shell.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
|
MM - don't worry about the surveyor. He will expect to see damp in a cellar, unless the room is intended to be used for habitable purposes - which yours is clearly too small and low to be.
As a quick fix, you could brick up the hole using air bricks, so the surveyor cannot get in or see in?
|
Mapmaker, why not get a specialist wine fridge - we bought my folks one as a combined birthday/xmas prezzie this year. It´s quite an impressive bit of kit, holds about 75 bottles, think it´s made by Liebherr.
And we get to drink the benefits of perfectly cellared wines when we´re there too...
|
Mapmaker - I'd suggest improving the ventilation to the 'room' and keep the boxes off the floor. For the cost of sorting out the problem permanently you could probably buy two of those wine fridges.
Espada will know better than me but I suspect a surveyor would look at lined room in a cellar and make a comment which would imply that you were trying to hide damp which is probably a worse thing to read on a report than the rather less shocking news that a coal hole is indeed a bit damp.
|
Does a chemical tanking ever work - as opposed to the plastic solution? There's somebody called VANDEX who claim great results for a chemical tanking - have you heard of them?
Internal render type tanking *can* work if a specialist product is used, preferably by a specialist contractor. We have used a tanking contractor on a couple of commercial jobs; they use a 'Sika 1' system, and guarantee the products and workmanship. AFAIK there were no recurring problems.
www.sika.co.uk/top-downloads.htm
I assume this is not a cheap solution and not likely to be cost effective for a coal hole, especially if you are selling soon. I'm not familiar with Vandex but it sounds as if it works like Sika; which bonds to the substrate by capillary action, but AFAIK the surface preparation is critical to it working, hence the need for specialist installation.
|
Chemical tanking -
.>>
Chemical tanking is fine and I have carried out ££££££££££ without failure, but the substrate has to be sound sound sound. If it ain't don't go there and ANY structural movement is likely to cause a breech of the tanking and backing renders etc.
Solid tanking will sweat and cause condensation even through 2-3 coats of sand/cement render over and lightweight plaster to quite a considerable thickness will have to be used together with good management of the envoronment within the room, i.e. ventilation when possible which lots of folk don't do these days, like the 'T' shirt in the winter brigade!!
Bitumen, which is still a brilliant product if correctly applied will fail on top of lime based plasters.
Minefield minefield...............go carefull.
Best....................MD.
|
Needless to say, it leaked, and chunks fell off. He repaired theholes, but unfortunately the water still comes in.
I feel I know him. Is is richardheadplastering.??? idiots like him get the industry the press it gets, often, but not always, fuelled by customers who REFUSE to listen or do any homework regarding their chosen contractor............................Don't get me started..........................More red wine chaps?
Very best to all..................................MD.
|
Thank you for all your info.
My first offer onthe house has been rejected, but I am going to try again. There is already plenty of space in the house, but knowing about the cellar is useful information.
The house is on fairly high ground, so not the worst area for flooding, but I appreciate these days you never can tell!
Rebecca
|
|
|
|
|
|
