All 3 of those 406s are gonna be MULTIPLEXED.
Are you sure the cars are running the latest BSI software from Peugeot? When was the last time they had a download from a Peugeot main dealer?
Are you also sure the aircon system is fully gassed?
The 406 & rest of the PSA range climate control system is pretty good, Its a set & forget system unlike a lot of more expensive cars where constant fiddling is needed to get a decent temperature.
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Agree totolly with that - I've had several 406 Exec's and the CC has always worked perfectly - real 'set and forget' system.
The CC in the Merc I've got now drives me bonkers.
I would be totally amazed if the Peugept system was capable of being reprogrammed - its program will be run by an ASIC of some sort.
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If these cars havent been near a Peugeot main dealer in a while then they might be missing out on the latest BSI downloads.
The BSI unit is the cars body computer that controls everything electrical on the car.
Peugeot are always tweaking the software for the BSI & engine ECU units.
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Perhaps I'd better clarify my points.
It may well be that there is a re-programme available, but the "problems" must have been present from 2000 - 2003 as the CC behaved in the same way on these cars I used (late 2003 was my son's model, and the CC system was useless from new (as described below) and he assumed that they were "just like that")
The basic (but not exhaustive) design requirements for a good fully automatic CC system:
SENSORS & other INPUTS (inputs to the CC CPU / interface) - engine temp / cabin temperature / outside temperature. "MANUAL and OVERIDE" controls buttons and switches for user preferences - individual duct outlets open / close selection button/switch (floor / facia / windscreen / door windows), cabin temperature selection, A/C cold air suppliment (aircon operative), fan speed selection overide, CC auto button (where all manual selections disabled - the CPU CC program takes over all functions).
OUTPUTS to control the system - A/C compressor cluch etc. / servos for opening & closing air input ducts (cold or/and heated air), servos for opening & closing cabin air output ducts (and outputs to CC display of course), fan speed control.
I assume those inputs are all utilised, and therfore assume that the CC program is either "faulty" or very poorly written.
The 406s I've used fall down mainly on two points.
1.0 the system doesn't vary the speed of the fan in response to the difference between the outside temp. and the selected cabin temp. - in other words, as long as the engine temp. can provide for warm air, and there is a significant difference between your required cabin temperature and that which exists in the cabin (the cabin will be cold because the outside is cold), then the fan should speed up and QUICKLY respond to the demand for heat - e.g. on a cold morning. The fan speed should be then stepped down and the warm / cold intake mix varied as the cabin temperature climbs to that required - this is a simple closed loop control system. None of the 406s I've seen do this! You have to manually speed up the fan! Your Nisan sounds interesting. If you have to revert to manual at any time, then it's not a well designed automatic CC system. My Omega was spot on - it worked as discribed - fully automatically - the only thing I touched was the temp. selection and the de-mist button. On cold mornings the fan speed increased as the engine temperature rose (so as not to blow cold air into the cabin) and continued at a fair lik untill the cabin temp. approached that selected - perfect!
2.0 The cabin outlet ducts selector swich is completely ineffective - the Auto CC system seems to have no influence on these, only the windscreen de-mist function seems to sort of work (increase in fan speed, but still blowing out of other ducts!)
I doubt if the CC system is part of an engine management system - it makes no sense at all, except that the CC system will need an engine temperature measurement feed. It's like saying the AutoRain wiper control and AutoLighs control systems on these cars are part a main control system - they're not; they're individual control units interfacing into the car's main manual systems.
Any comments folks - particuarly from any experts on the CC system in these cars?
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The climate control like the auto wipers & auto headlights are controled by the cars computer.
This is the BSI unit or Built in Systems Interface to give it the correct name.
This unit is digitally linked via the 406s CAN - VAN wiring system to things like the radio, climate control & other electrical items dotted around the car.
I owned a 406, The climate control was spot on, It is a set & forget system, Its that good.
I drive a 206 at the moment & that has climate control, Its such a good system that you can even feel the difference if you change the temperature setting by half a degree, You just set it & let it get on with it.
The climate control is linked to the engine ECU via the BSI unit & the cars CAN - VAN wiring system, If it wasn't the cooling fans wouldn't run & the engine would stall because the idle speed wouldn't be raised when the aircon compressor is running & putting extra load on the engine.
The BSI unit has software written by PSA Peugeot / Citroen, There's at least 160 + settings in the BSI unit that have to be configured by the main dealer too, PSA is always tweaking the software & checking to see if a download is available is a good idea.
Are all 3 of theses 406s running the latest BSI & ECU software downloads from Peugeot U.K?
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Thanks for that vey informative info. I understand about CAN wired network systems - I used to deal with CAN control modules and systems in industry - although I didn't realise the 406 used one.
I doubt if the systems have had a software / firmware download upgrade, but my son's 2003 model works the way I've described from new!
My main bugbears with these cars' CC are the two main points I mentioned, these being 1.0 that the fan seed is not automatically increased to more quickly warm up the cab (even when the engine's hot!), which would seem to be a missing control fuction in the Auto program design, since one can manually vary it's speed. It seems that in Auto mode, the fan speed is just pre-set to slow. As I said, my Omega rightly utilised this function when the engine temp. was high enough and so rapidly warmed the cab, slowing the fan down in stages as the cab temerature approached that selected via. the display. 2.0 The manual selection of the air outlet flow priority (via. the up-down function switch) seems hardly to have any effect, even though the display indicates otherwise - the two "face level outlets" for example are permanantly "on" regardless of the setting - in fact all of the outlets are!
So.., the crux is I suppose, can you absolutely confirm that you are sure that both of these problems seem to be only occuring in the three cars I've recently driven, and that (particularly) the fan speed does vary as it should to rapidly warm the cab on current models, which should be the case on new cars with current software/firmware - and, it's just occured to me, do new models conversely cool the cab rapidly via. control of the fan speed when A/C is engaged (yes the gas etc.on these other vehicles is fine) as I've just remembered that, again, the Omega did this when A/C is selected, whereas the 406 doesn't. I remember getting into a very hot 406 in France and eventually, after it leisurely wafted in some aircon cooled air, having to overide the auto function to speed up the action before we expired.
I think I should test drive the very latest model and find out if things are different!!! Otherwise, I'd like to look at the CC program coding!
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You will be surprised how many software downloads PSA Peugeot Citroen release to the dealer network every week.
Only the 406s with the short stubby square radio remote stalk to the right of the steering wheel use the multiplex CAN - VAN wiring system, Thats about the last 3 to 4 years of 406 production.
Ive always found the PSA climate control excellent, Better then any other cars manufactures system ive tried.
Rapid heating & cooling of the cabin is taken care off automatically & then the blower fan slows down & just keeps the cabin temperature constant.
It does seem strange to me that you have 3 cars with the same fault.
Perhaps it might be an idea to let a Peugeot main dealer plug one of them on his diagnostic machine & test the climate control system out & also check for software downloads.
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Didn't the 406 come with 2 types of system. One was a basic automatic temperature control (ATC), and on higher models, or as a cost option, full climate control.
ATC simply maintained the temperature output, and fan and direction were manual. CC does everything for you. IIRC CC was about £300 option on the lower models, although many dealers specified this on the cars they ordered for stock.
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Cheers - thanks for all of the input.
Mind you, having read the threads relating to CR engine problems to which you contributed (suggesting CR engines are a problem waiting to happen for all owners) I think I'll just keep my head down and be thankful that the car runs, and put up with the CC system!!
Thanks again.
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1.0 that the fan seed is not automatically increased to more quickly warm up the cab (even when the engine's hot!), which would seem to be a missing control fuction in the Auto program design, since one can manually vary it's speed. It seems that in Auto mode, the fan speed is just pre-set to slow.
I had 98, 2000 and 2002 (which I kept until Apr 2005) 406 Exec's.
The fan definitely varied its speed, but I think there's a road-speed dependancy. On cold winter mornings, the fan starts off slow, then speeds up after a few hundred yards, then slows again when I stopped ata junction.
The fan did seem to slow to almost nothing when the cabin is up to temp, meaning there isn't much air-flow through the car, but my Merc does exactly the same thing.
the two "face level outlets" for example are permanantly "on" regardless of the setting.
I don't remember that at all - can't you manually turn off each vents? I used to wear contact lenses so didn't like face level vents. In summer I generally just had air blowing on the screen.
Again, the Merc system in full auto uses all the vents - MB's recommendation is to leave them all open all the time, but I don't.
I remember getting into a very hot 406 in France and eventually, after it leisurely wafted in some aircon cooled air, having to overide the auto function to speed up the action before we expired.
Is that just the road-speed thing, or did you move off straight away?
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I agree absolutely with everything that's been said here, in the current cold weather my 406's climate control also seems to delay the feed of warm air into the car until the engine is fully warmed through - it seems to behave as though it had a hot/cold slider set around halfway. However if I press the windscreen demist button it then behaves as though the non-existant hot/cold slider has been moved to the "hot" end of the scale, ie i can feel heat coming through within a minute or so from a cold start!
Also to be comfortable in the car in the winter it has to be set at around 23degC, in the summer it needs to be as low as 19degC to achieve the same effect; hardly "set and forget".
It seems as though the climate control system needs to be operated manually to achieve the desired temperature level etc on first getting into the car, but once you're comfortable the "Auto" setting seems to suffice.
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Did you manage to find out what the problem is? I have a 406 2001 LX 90 and I have the very same problem.
I am sure that when you get into a hot cab the A/C when set to a low tempreture should come and blow like mad until the cab reaches the desired tempreture then the fan should slow down with the correct tempreture mix coming through to maintain the desired tempreture?
Mine doesnt. Just had it regased and when on manual settings the air is freezing coming out of the vents but as soon as you press auto the fan slows right down and the you bake.
Im thinking that it could be an internal cabin tempreture sensor?
How would I check for faults or is there a way to reset the Auto climate control?
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I have seen the climate sensor report problems when doing diagnostics on a number of 407s and some 307s. On those models the sensor is in the dash around the glove box area and you can see the dust that accumulates in the little slots.
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