It's a loong time since I passed my driving test, and I think that was more by luck than anything else. Since then, I have (fingers crossed) been involved in only two accidents, both minor, and both while reversing. (In one, I nudged and cracked someone's numberplate, but t'other scrunched the other car's door, which cost a few hundred to fix).
Learning how to reverse properly may be difficult: limited rear visibility makes my Almera the hardest car to reverse of any I have driven regularly. But even if I just concentrate on going forwards, I'm sure that my driving has plenty of room for improvement.
So I have ordered a copy of Roadcraft, and intend to study it carefully ... but I still think I could benefit from help from someone qualified, so I intend to try to take an advanced driving test.
However, I have been reading other backroom threads on this and see that there is a choice between doing it with the IAM or with RoSPA. (www.iam.org.uk and www.roada.org )
Both appear to base their approach on Roadcraft, and both seem to test for similar things. The IAM just notes pass/fail, whereas RoSPA grades its passes as Gold/Silver/Bronze and (unlike the IAM) seeks a retest every three years.
The IAM local groups are a bit closer than the nearest RoSPA group, but (apart from distance) I am rather put off by the fact that the nearest IAM group meets in the British Legion club. I have nowt against the British Legion - they do great work -- but they do tend to be rather old and conservative sorta people. I have plenty of friends in that category, but I'm not sure how I feel about them observing my driving; I have visions of a white-moustached man in a blazer with an AA badge on his lapel disparaging my lack of driving gloves and muttering things about "girls" driving.
Apart from that, has anyone any recommendations on the choice between the IAM and RoSPA?
(Yes, I have read previous threads:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=33053&...8
and www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=24470&...f and www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=37474&...f )
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I've been down the IAM route and it was fine.
Yes, my observer was on the wrong side of 60 (just), but maybe I was lucky because he was down to earth and knew how to have fun with a car. Not stuffy or old fashioned at all.
I really enjoyed the whole process, although I've not bothered with the local group, I went to one meeting and it just wasn't my thing.
The Skills for Life course was really good though - recommend it.
Just don't expect big (or any) discounts on your insurance though!
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Thanks, OilBurner - that's encouraging.
Just don't expect big (or any) discounts on your insurance though!
I wasn't thinking of it to save on insurance, just for safety and peace of mind -- I'm a reasonably confident driver (while going forwards), but had a bad patch a decade ago when I lost my nerve on the motorways, and reckon I'd benefit from feeling more confident in my driving techniques. Anyway, staying out of accidents is much more financially beneficial than a small cut in the insurance premium :)
Borasport, you're probably right about the British Legion connection. It's just that (unlike the council or the travellodge) it's not an outfit I would otherwise have any dealings with beyond donations on Armistice Day, so the fact that they chose that place makes me think that there may be some link.
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Meeting at the British Legion may be a red herring. Remember the IAM is a voluntary organisation, without the finances or need to have their own local properties.
My local group has used the car park of the local council offices and the local travellodge as meeting places, but I dont think it is run by council officers or sales reps !
Go on, get out of the car...
www.mikes-walks.co.uk
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IAM tend to just hire out a hall of some sort, I have started going for a few reasons,
1. to bring down my insurance,
2. to get rid of the bad habits i know i have
3 to be able to drive dads new company car on my own.
Yes i am the youngest one there by at least 20 years and at the age of 22 thats being generous. but the people are all really friendly and there are extra things to it as well as i am going on a skid pan day through them in a few weeeks.
--
Temporarily not a student, where did the time go???
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I have done the IAM, and have just become a junior observer for my local group. I chose IAM because of the "skill for life" package they offered (85 pounds, to cover associate membership of IAM and local group, as well as test fee, and a couple of driving manuals (not roadcraft)). With the IAM, you don't need to go to any of the meetings if you don't want to, i don't have time usually due to uni commitments. The way my group works, is that for all drives you either go to the obsever's house or a midway meeting point, then go for a 70min drive followed by debrief and points for evaluation for the next run.
ROSPA, from what i can gather is a bit tougher than the IAM to pass, but covers the same sort of things as you mention both are based on Roadcraft (in diving terms the difference between BSAC and PADI if that makes sense).
In my experience i have never heard anyone come out with a a sweeping stment of any "kind" of driver e.g. female, young, old etc since we have a wide age and sex distribution within the group, including younger members like myself (late teens early 20's) to people in their 80's. Comments tend to be about "types" of drivers e.g. tailgaters, lack of observation etc, and how we ourselves can drive more defensively to accomodate for motorists liks that, if you catch my drift.
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OOh, btw, with insuarance, i passed the test age 20, and doing so brought my insurance down by about 200 pounds. The IAM own insuance i found to be very expensive and uncompetitive, but a lot of big insurers take the IAM into account my insurance at the time was elephant.
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My son passed his IAM test at the age of 28 - he was accompanied on the six sessions before taking the test by a Grade One police driver.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Extremes of people and cars on my (IAM) course included a guy who ran his own garage, driving a sparkling new Evo, a school kid in an X reg Metro (X the first time around), an old boy in a diesel Astra......etc.
School kid slashed his insurance premium by hundreds. I see no reduction for the over 8's.
We used to meet in the upstairs room at a local pub: I was relieved to see that most of the assessors, and even the examiner would have a drink at the meetings.
Just one though.
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"I see no reduction for the over 8's."
That will be the joy riders on the Blackbird Lee's estate then?
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I took and passed my IAM test back in 1986 aged 22 and have since recommended to many friends that they do likewise. None who have done so have regretted it and all of us are still paid up members. My wife drives with great observation, planning, and anticipation and I am sure will pass her test without trouble too when we have finished our impending house move. I will also take a voluntary retest at the same time.
I chose the IAM test because the opportunity was there and it was every bit a skill for life as ROSPA so long as I voluntarily maintained standard. In my younger years I took advantage of the discounted insurance too, but having had company cars for nine years and then a modified V70 that requires specialist insurance cover I don't at the moment.
Good luck and enjoy whichever you choose (you will!)
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I'd go for IAM, RoSPA seem to be a bit of an anti-car, anti-driver pressure-group these days.
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Having been a member of both, I have finally allowed my IAM membership to lapse - they are a very affluent organisation now compared to the RoSPA Advanced Driving org. RoADA are most certainly not anti-car, but they do put safety sufficiently high up the agenda. If you want a really safe "advanced" test go for the DIAmond (DSA based advanced).
RoSPA do grade and importantly, retest, which makes it meaningful. Lots of IAM bdged vehicles drive around in a very unadvanced way - not a good advert I would suggest.
RoSPA give you a detailed drive assessment and grade so you do have a guide as to how good your pass was, and not just "it was a pass". I accept not everyone might want to know that.
So depending on what you want out of it, IAM and RoSPA offer very different flavours of advanced. In my pre-RoADA days RoADA was always considered to aim higher with the training and the results reflected that. Having been a memberf of both, I believe that assertion was true. However - brand name recognition etc seem to carry more clout, especially when selling "training" (term used very loosely) with your new car.....Great marketing for a Registered Charity.
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I was looking into doing it late last year, but I've not got round to it yet as I've been too busy at work. Just from what I have read on other forums, it seemed to be that a lot of people do IAM first, then go on to do RoADA, as they subsequently feel they would like the discipline of the re-tests.
I bought the IAM book "Pass Your Advanced Driving Test" cheap on eBay. Seems to be straightforward common-sense stuff, but would be very educational for a lot of people, should be a compulsory read after the normal driving test, IMO.
Have you seen this website, which has a forum on it: www.advanced-driving.co.uk/index.php
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I did the IAM at 18. My instrutor for my normal test gave me a couple of lessons prior to this, and he was IAM approved.
The test itself was just like a normal drive thoughout the country lanes. After the drive, the examiner, a serving police officer, gave me some good critical feedback on my driving, saying the pass was boarderline but nevertheless, satisfactory.
It sounds like what you are looking for is probably some more coaching. Whether or not you then take the test is another decision.
H
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Thanks, everybody, for all the replies. Very helpful.
Hugo, you're probably right that what I should initially go for is more coaching; that's the important bit, to improve my skills. I think that if I reckon I have a chance of pasing the test, I will try it, just to prove to myself that at least at one point in my life I was capable of driving well.
Thanks to Smoke and Grnicol for the thoughts on IAM v RoADA. I think that Rich's suggestion sounds best: do the IAM test, and then if I want the rigour of a regular retest, try RoADA.
But first I'm going to study Roadcraft, so that hopefully I won't come across as a complete idiot when I first drive with an observer :)
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Hmm...I passed RoSPA at gold level after a couple of hours run through. We had to do it at work, and they did fail quite a lot of people. All ex-Police instructors, pretty tough, but realistic about everyday driving. The issue, I think, is that they tell you to drive normally, but you can't help but modify your style to what you think they're looking for. Although one colleague did drive 'normally' and they brought him back and refused to go out with him!
Didn't stop me backing out of my drive into a neighbours car though!
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Hmm...I passed RoSPA at gold level after a couple of hours run through.
Well done!
Didn't stop me backing out of my drive into a neighbours car though!
Been there, done that -- that was my expensive crunch :(
It doesn't help that the neighbour in question likes black cars and parks them on the street, away from the light. The memory was what prompted me to choose a light metallic colour for my new wheels (tho I guess that canary yellow might be best!)
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It doesn't help that the neighbour in question likes black cars and parks them on the street, away from the light.
That's exactly the same for me - I actually barely brushed the car as a I backed out and drew level with it my rear bumper touched the front wing and pushed the flare of the wheel arch in.
If I'd backed out 'properly', going completely across the road, I would have smacked into the front of his car - maybe I would have seen it, although I'm not so sure.
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NW - when you are ready, let us know how you get on. I'm sure we'd benefit from hearing your experiences.
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NW - when you are ready, let us know how you get on. I'm sure we'd benefit from hearing your experiences.
Thanks, will do!
I'm a bit nervous about it, because I've had so many bad experiences of men with an aggressive driving style trying to tell me how to drive: faster! faster! cut in here! overtake now! no, stop! I didn't mean stop driving, now just shoot these lights!. I'm sure these guys aren't like that, but I will remain wary until I have tried them.
So I'll do my homework reading Roadcraft, and test the water before committing myself.
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I dont have any experience of Rospa/Roada, but I'm reasonably certain that if you talked to your local IAM group you should be able to get either an observed run or possibly just sitting in the back as a passenger, without signing up to anything
Just give it a try. There is always a possibility you will get the observer who is 903 years old, shakes like a leaf and frightens the living daylights out of you. European legislation makes it compulsory for every group to have one such,, but the fact they have got to 903 must say something....
Go on, get out of the car...
www.mikes-walks.co.uk
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NW,
None of the observers from either organisation will give you a problem. Their driving has to be good to start with - and by that I mean a good pass level for whichever advanced org. they are with. If personalities get in the way or any thing you're unhappy about, they should change the person allocated with no fuss. When I ran training for the IAM in the SouthWest in the 80's myself we (police and civilian team) selected our best drivers and then found which of those couldnt "instruct" (term used advisedly"). Part of the fun for the members was the chance to do Sunday runs in the patrol vehicle (as passengers), experiencing a skilled drive at speed c/w commentary...that always impressed. Even easier with RoADA - grades already known take Gold and Diploma holders and ensure Gold guys have the ability (Diplomas will have been proven, hence their higher greade again).
Whatever you do, you will enjoy it :-)
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NW - when you are ready, let us know how you get on. I'm sure we'd benefit from hearing your experiences.
I agree. NW takes things seriously and verbalises.
All the same, heavy foot is sometimes appropriate not just on the brake pedal. You can accelerate out of trouble. And manoeuvres like overtaking are best done quickly. Some things just can't be done at a 65mph maximum.
But intelligence and goodwill are extremely important. I'm sure the instructors will be gently encouraging NW when they would be brutally curbing some of us (no names no packdrill).
Sounds like IAM I have to say.
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