There are thousands of dwellings in this country where there is no other option but to park on the road. Perhaps the people who live in these dwellings should not have cars?
That could well be a future option for some government if owners have nowhere else to park them.
I'm amazed that people have space on their property to park cars, yet wilfully leave them on the highway. Is it sheer laziness? Yes, it is a pain to open the gates on the drive, and then open the garage door and drive out the car. I have to do it every time. However, I know that my car is relatively safe and I'm not going to upset my neighbours.
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>> There are thousands of dwellings in this country where there is >> no other option but to park on the road. Perhaps >> the people who live in these dwellings should not have cars? That could well be a future option for some government if owners have nowhere else to park them. I'm amazed that people have space on their property to park cars, yet wilfully leave them on the highway. Is it sheer laziness? Yes, it is a pain to open the gates on the drive, and then open the garage door and drive out the car. I have to do it every time. However, I know that my car is relatively safe and I'm not going to upset my neighbours.
Goodness me. How many people do you know that put their car in garages overnight - I don't know many.
I have two cars and the smaller of the two is put into the garage whilst the other stands on the driveway, to one side.
Most people, nowadays, for one reason or another, can't be bothered to use their garages as these have become a repository for junk or who have bought cars too large for the garage.
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another reason why some people have to park on the road is that modern cars won't fit into modern house's garages!
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There are thousands of dwellings in this country where there is no other option but to park on the road. Perhaps the people who live in these dwellings should not have cars?
I sympathies on your situation with the neighbour, they can be a pain some times.
What I can't understand is that there are new houses being built that only have a single or no car parking space. It should be made law that sufficient parking spaces should be allocated (i.e. one for every room in the house).
While I feel everyone who legally is allowed to have a car should be able to do have one, perhaps looking at the Japanese system of only allowing tiny cars for those with no parking spots is a good idea.
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What I can't understand is that there are new houses being built that only have a single or no car parking space. It should be made law that sufficient parking spaces should be allocated (i.e. one for every room in the house).
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That would mean an awful lot of parking space being provided. Most new houses have drives that would have only just enough room for one car, simply because the front gardens are so small.
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My wife has gone out in the C5, so the car is back on the drive now. However, before I parked it there, I reversed the Xantia onto the road from our drive, just to check how difficult it would be to reverse out onto the near side of the road. It is a piece of cake.
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What I can't understand is that there are new houses being built that only have a single or no car parking space. It should be made law that sufficient parking spaces should be allocated (i.e. one for every room in the house).
I can sort of answer that one.
It depends on the policy of the planning authority, for example in Bristol, the council actually seek to reduce the spaces available so as to persuade people to walk / cycle / bus into work, and not have a car. Fine if you're half a mile level walk from the centre, not so good if you 2 - 3 miles out. That said, Bristol does have a car club scheme running so if you NEED a car, you can rent one at a reasonable rate.
On two schemes i have running, we only have to provide 17 spaces for 24 flats. The Section 106 (planning gain) included a contribution to the Car Club scheme.
On another smaller scheme, which were 3 bed houses, we only had to provide one space and one visitor space between 4 houses. That application was rejected, and the scheme we are now doing which is two 5 bed houses still only need two spaces per house.
The policy will differ area to area. Where my previous house was, the policy was two spaces, which the developer satisfied by providing a single garage and one space on the drive. Of course the garages are too small for most cars, but when you're buying a 800 square foot house, most punters want the living space, not the car space, and use the garage as a shed.
How you would change those guidelines and policies, i'm not entirely sure, maybe become a counciller and get on the planning commitee, and therefore make the policy?
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machika, as a matter of interest - according to your insurance, where do you park you cars when you are at home ?
Have you had a word with the neighbour your phone number was given to - or are they trying to stay as far out of this as possible ?
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machika, as a matter of interest - according to your insurance, where do you park you cars when you are at home ? Have you had a word with the neighbour your phone number was given to - or are they trying to stay as far out of this as possible ?
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The car should be parked on the drive where, in fact, it is 99% of the time. I am allowed to leave it on the road if necessary, as was the case on Wednesday. I check with my insurers some time ago and it is not an issue if the car is occasionally left on the road overnight.
The issue with the neighbour who was given our phone number was resolved, the problem is with the neighbour who made the initial complaint. We intend to speak to him about giving out our phone number.
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I can sort of answer that one.
I fully understand the crazy polices of local, national government and the benefits to the developer. However its extremely short sighted (as is everything with government), currently planning seems to be going down the track of the disastrous 50's and 60's at the moment.
To keep on topic machika, I don't think your neighbour has a problem with the car being parked where it is. He just doesn't like the fact that you park there, anyone else?s car and it would be fine. The idea that he can affect your life and gain attention at the same time appeals to him (as it does to many people).
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>> It should be made law that sufficient parking spaces shouldbe allocated (i.e. one for every room in the house).
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It varies between Local Authorities and varies with location. In N.E. Derbyshire, a new 3 bedroom semi in a suburban location will typically have to have 2 off-street parking spaces. Where I live on a new estate in Nottingham, 2 bedroom houses have 2 parking spaces.
Where we occasionally design house extensions for people, if the extension is adding bedrooms then you are often required to create an extra off-street parking space. Which often means paving over part of the front garden.
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When I extended, the house went from three to four bedrooms. A planning condition was that I had to provide parking for at least three vehicles on the driveway. Fortunately, I already had the space, which was clearly obvious. This however, didn't stop my neighbour informing the council that I didn't have room for three cars, and I was therefore breaking the conditions of planning permission, and I should be made (and I quote) "to tear down that monstrosity with immediate effect".
I wonder if he is in any way related to machika's neighbours?
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let me be the last to let you down....
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>>My approach would be less touchy-feely.
Mine too. Cups of coffee, friendly chat? That won't work with his type. He's a petulant coward - getting another neighbour involved - pathetic.
You say you don't feel like backing down. Don't. Take the initiative. With someone else there as a witness, front him up in a polite, calm but firm manner, tell him a few home truths about his behaviour. Tell him you've had enough trying to accomodate him, you don't want to hear from him on the subject again. End of.
He'll back down. Even if he doesn't (unlikely) you'll know exactly where you stand (you don't now) and with a bit of luck he'll be stupid enough to threaten you or your property. Involve the police and he'll end up with a warning, next time arrest and court.
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I think a touch of friendly negotiation would be in order. If you just steam up to him, with a witness, and give him a bit of ear ache it won't look too marvellous in any subsequent police action or interviews. If you can say that you tried to keep it friendly, no good result so you told him what was what, this would seem to be a more logical and reasonable approach.
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There won't be any confrontations but he will be left in no doubt what we think of his actions.
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This is an interesting thread. I also have a narrow drive which can accomodate 2 cars. However, I deliberately park one of my car on the roadside on my side. But I don't have complaint from anyone. The reason I park my car on the roadside is to stop my neighbour from parking his trade cars and bangers. Basically I don't provide the space for him to sell cars on residential properties. Some times he has upto 3 cars selling when he manages to park on the roadside causing a nuisance (engine reving noise, fumes and potential buyers knocking my door by mistake in the evening).
See if anyone got any thoughts on how to deal with neighbours selling cars at residential properties.
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See if anyone got any thoughts on how to deal withneighbours selling cars at residential properties.
You are normally not allowed to trade from residential property. You can operate a business but you have to inform the local authority and they will charge you business rates.
If he's causing bother 'phone the planning department of your local authority and ask if this is permitted. Chances are that it isn't and a planning official will pay a visit if you let them have details.
My neighbour, who lives immediately behind me, has a legitimate second hand car business in Liverpool and North Wales, but used to bring vehicles home to sell and valet. His neighbour, who lives opposite, complained to the council and he was issued with an injunction by the LA.
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The OP was about a pain in the bum neighbour who kept making piffling complaints about parking.
The thread seems to have turned into a series of piffling complaints about people parking cars they are selling in the street, with advice on how to make trouble for them with the authorities.
Terrific. Let's all be pains in the bum.
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Lud,
How do you feel if you're waken up every Sunday morning with the engine reving and group of people around your drive with cigarette ends disposed on your drive?
If people are being considerate to other residentials then we won't have these posting. This message is not meant to offend anyone.
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i could sell cars from home especially on a sunday but i refuse both for my own/wife reasons and i like my neighbours,these people take advantage and are usually part timers who have a full time job as well,get them reported i say, or send them down to my place with a cheque to pay my rates bills for starters.
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\"a little man in a big world/\"
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Returning to the original topic, doesn't the whole situation simply stem from the erroneous belief that people have any special claim over the bit of road adjacent to their property? They don't, and they need to be disabused of this.
In a way, this discussion makes me glad to live on a road where few houses have their own driveways and drivers simply park on whatever bit of empty road happens to be available. If there's a space outside your own house, all to the good. If you have to walk a few yards further, it's not a major hardship.
I'm a little bemused by the mention of anyone extending their house having to add extra parking spaces: does this mean that owners of terraced house aren't allowed to add extensions?
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Maybe the guy who lives opposite is concerned that one day he will reverse out of his drive and hit machika's car and is airing on the side of caution by asking machika if he could park elsewhere. A petty argument now, but I imagine a bigger argument could break out if the cars were to ever collide. Not to mention insurance companies could start asking why the car was parked on the road and not on the drive.
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I would try and placate him by only parking outside when you have freinds around or the drive is blockrd. If this still causes problems I would tell him were to stick himself.
Giving out an ex directory number without permision is wrong and i would certainly point this out to him.
Thankfully all the residnts in our private road get reasnably well and most of us park outside every now and then. A similar problem was solved by cutting back the hedge (at my expense) so as the cars could be parked closer giving more roof to park.
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Lud, How do you feel if you're waken up every Sunday morning with the engine reving and group of people around your drive with cigarette ends disposed on your drive? If people are being considerate to other residentials then we won't have these posting. This message is not meant to offend anyone.
Sorry Perfection. I didn't mean to be offensive. Actually I realise I was basing what I said on where I live, which I guess is quite urban and noisy compared to where you do. We don't have a drive, and we got used to people leaving bottles, cans, etc not to mention cigarette ends on our front steps ages ago! Silence never completely reigns even in the small hours, but we sleep on the third floor at the back. So sorry. I guess untoward clamour on Sunday morning would constitute a nuisance.
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I don't envy you, machika. This seems like a difficult one.
If all else fails, I suggest that you adopt a new persona and play Jolyon Wagg* to his Haddock.
*Séraphin Lampion, if you prefer
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The road outside my house can be busy especially on Sundays. I also have excellent neighbours mainly because we all take the time to have a chat even for only a couple of minutes. It is not unusual to have my drive blocked. But we all took the decision a few years back that if someone was going to block our drive then they would place a piece of paper on the dash to say what house that the person was in (simple). There has been no hassle what so ever. Even to the point where if as a family we going out I will say put your car in my drive I will be back at xxxx time. I feel that this is especially good when we are on holidays as there can be various cars on and off my driveway when we are on holiday.
I personally and others in our street make a point of going and paying a visit to any new neighbours that move in (bottle of wine in hand of course) and have a chat about the area.
This always helps break the ice and you then have no trouble if you have to have a chat to them about anything.
On the other hand the street my brother stays in they can hardly even look at each other and are constantly bickering about something.
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Matters took a turn for the worse this morning, as the neighbour (abetted by his wife) has managed to rile my wife. She had been out to a church service this morning and parked on the road when returning, as our neighbours with the shared drive were cleaning out there car and had all of the doors open. In addition my wife was due to go out again in less than 2 hours.
As it so happened, the neighbour who has been complaining was out with his wife and returned a few minutes later. I happened to be busy with something at the side of our house and as soon as they had got out of their car, his wife shouted across the road to me and asked me to move our car. I told her I was busy at that moment and that it was my wife who had left it there in any case. As soon as I told my wife what had been said, she was on the phone to them and, as I know from experience, she is not a person to be crossed.
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Uh oh. Hell hath now fury like a woman abused by her weird neighbours. Hope it works out OK, Machika.
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Uh oh. Hell hath now fury like a woman abused by her weird neighbours. Hope it works out OK, Machika.
Yeah, it's for the best. Once 'eI ('er indoors) gets involved, we either get a very quick resolution, or else it's straight into WW3.
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In addition my wife was due to go out again in less than 2 hours.
15 mins maybe, but 2 hours? Surely long enough to consider parking in your drive, rather than rattle the neighbours cage even more? It sounds to me as though you're deliberately going out of your way now to upset them.
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As I said, the car couldn't be put on the drive when my wife arrived home. The complaining neighbour arrived back within 10 minutes of my wife parking it there, so it wouldn't have made any difference if it had been there for 5 minutes or 5 hours, they still would have complained.
I just can't see the cause for complaint here. They had to wait no more than 20 seconds for an oncoming car before they parked on their drive and then asking me to move the car. It isn't a road with through traffic and nobody is put to any inconvenience by the odd parked car. There are some houses on our estate that nearly always have a car parked outside and I would never give a moments thought to complaining about any of them. I have lived here for 15 years and have never come across anything like it.
The chap tried to tell my wife he was trying to be neighbourly. How is he being neighbourly when he is telling us what to do? He also said we were creating one-way traffic. The mind boggles!
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Perhaps, the time has come, when, reluctantly, you say to your neighbour that this has now gone on quite long enough. He and/or she must now either call the police if they consider a criminal law is being broken, or to take legal action in the civil courts.
However, there is just a chance that the authorities could decide that you are in the wrong and it could all blow up in your face.
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My wife has already told them it has gone on long enough!
I have no fear of any authority deciding that I am in the wrong, or they would have to take action against several other people in the same road, never mind how many they would find in our village alone, who are doing the same thing on a long term basis.
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I have no fear of any authority deciding that I am in the wrong, or they would have to take action against several other people in the same road, never mind how many they would find in our village alone, who are doing the same thing on a long term basis.
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two or more wrongs do not make a right.
see
www.tameside.gov.uk/tmbc5/trafficcalming/parking.h...m
" Clearing up Some Parking Myths "
No-one has a right to park on the public highway.
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Machika, have you mentioned to him about reversing onto his drive? I wondered what his reaction was if you had.
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let me be the last to let you down....
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Seems like a fairly open and shut case of an interfering neighbour who is trying to control or influence others by making it awkward.
M whilst not having the 'right' to park on the street certainly is allowed to do so as long as he does not create an obstruction. If as he says the street is a reasonably wide one then this is unlikely.
The neighbour seems to feel that he 'owns' the right to park, or have his visitors park in the street and by claiming he finds it difficult to manoeuvre out of his drive by reversing (which is against the highway code as well as common sense) seeks to enforce that right.
I think it's a red herring to start talking about whether or not M's wife was parked for 5 mins or two hours (per dynamic D), so what, it's not a restricted area so park if you can do so sensibly.
You will hand this twit a lot of 'power' if you comply with his rules, and it's that that he is after. Just park and let him get on with it, if he harasses you complain to the relevant authorities. If you bend over backward to oblige him he will end asking for more and more.
That said try the friendly approach if you can, but be firm and aware of where he may be coming from.
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Machika, have you mentioned to him about reversing onto his drive? I wondered what his reaction was if you had. -- let me be the last to let you down....
My wife did when she spoke to them. Apparently they find it difficult to do!
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>> Machika, have you mentioned to him about reversing onto his drive? My wife did when she spoke to them. Apparently they find it difficult to do!
In which case, they also probably find it difficult to reverse out of their drive as well. As I previously said, maybe they are worried about hitting your car. If they really are unsure about being confident in manoeuvring their car, I know where I would park mine - as far away as possible from them.
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" Clearing up Some Parking Myths " No-one has a right to park on the public highway.
A little impractical, wouldn't you think, to say nobody has the right to park on the road? What excuse could any authority have for saying a person cannot park on a road with no parking restrictions, if there is no obstruction caused (and I mean a real obstruction, not someone having to wait 30 seconds for an oncoming car).
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A little impractical, wouldn't you think, to say nobody has the right to park on the road?
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that may well be true, and you may not like it, but it is still the law; and it is on the side of your neighbour if he wishes to take you to task.
to quote further from that link:
www.tameside.gov.uk/tmbc5/trafficcalming/parking.h...m
No-one has a right to park on the public highway.
The storage of your vehicle is your own private responsibility.
Buying a tax disc does not give you the right to park.
No-one has any special claim to the kerbside space outside of their house.
Just because there are no yellow lines, it does not mean that there is a right to park.
Whilst the department fully understands the concerns of obstructive parking, it is impossible for this department or the Council to resolve problems created by 'anti-social parking', most of which results from the practice of garaging vehicles on the public highway due to the shortage/lack of any off-street parking facilities within the cartilage of a property.
The problems this causes are all too common on residential roads, not only in this borough but in towns the length and breadth of this Country, creating difficulties for emergency services, refuse freighters, buses and many other larger type delivery vehicles.
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Machika, I've kept silent on this thread so far, but there's something about it which rather worries me, so I hope you'l forgive me for throwing in my tuppenceworth.
You always come across as a very reasonable person, but this situation doesn't seem to be developing well. I think your neighbour's reaction is way over the top, but it also seems to me that he has a point. Not a very strong one, but he does have a point, and as others have suggested, if it came to the law it might not work in your favour.
It seems to me that there there is a real danger of this situation escalating into either a big confrontation or (even worse) a long-term simmering standoff. Neither of those is nice to live with.
I wonder if there isn't a bit of room for compromise on both sides?
Your neighbour might accept that it was worth trying to reverse in and that some times you might not be able to avoid being parked in a place that he finds incovenient.
You might be able to accept that it'd be helpful to him if you parked on the drive a bit more often than you do now, and to see if you can find a way of parking on the road that inconveniences him less.
It sounds like things have already got quite heated, but before things get any worse I wonder whether it might not be a good idea to drop him a wee note saying that you really don't like having a disagreement with a neighbour, that you are sorry that things have gotten so difficult ... so would he like to come over and have a few glasses of your finest wine (or tastiest cake cake or best single malt or whatever) so that the pair of you can try to find a way of sorting this out to minimise any incovenience to both of you?
Just a suggestion, but I really do think that a small investment in hospitality and a welcoming smile might go a long way to soothing everyone's nerves and helping you understand each other's position a bit better.
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cartilage ! Surely they mean curtliage.
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cartilage ! Surely they mean curtliage.
or even curtilage;)
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I hope you're right NW, but that sort of thing is more likely to work on a rational being like you or me than on Machika's neighbour. I'm afraid the gentle approach has been tried already. If it was going to work it already would have.
If a person who is stupid, stubborn, self-righteous to a slightly mad degree also has an idee fixe about your behaviour, watch out. Don't you remember teachers and fellow pupils like that at school?
If I were Machika I would be having longing fantasies about arson and professional hit men, although they would only be fantasies. He has all my sympathy.
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Read the first part of the thread. The neighbour has made it clear that he expects Machika to do something (never park in the road outside his own house) that he doesn't do himself (he lets his visitors park outside his house).
This is not a person amenable to reason. Stupid, mad and tragic. Minimise contact.
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I hope you're right NW, but that sort of thing is more likely to work on a rational being like you or me than on Machika's neighbour. I'm afraid the gentle approach has been tried already. If it was going to work it already would have.
Lud, I get what you are saying, but ... but but but.
What I'm suggesting is a massive escalation of the gentleness and an attempt to shift the situation into a different context. Shouting acros the road is one thing, but most people calm down a bit when seated in a comfy chair with a nice drink and a warm welcome.
Some people are utterly determined to be horrid to everybody, but others just have a chip on their shoulder and a bit of disgruntlement with something in their life, and can respond very well to someone who makes that huge effort to get through to them.
If a person who is stupid, stubborn, self-righteous to a slightly mad degree also has an idee fixe about your behaviour, watch out. Don't you remember teachers and fellow pupils like that at school?
Sure, sometimes there are folks you just can't get through to. But sometimes it can surprising how successful a long-distance call can be. I've had people like that who seemed utterly untouchable, but who have eventually come round when I make a huge effort to appear unthreatening. Doesn't always work, but it can work sometimes.
If I were Machika I would be having longing fantasies about arson and professional hit men, although they would only be fantasies. He has all my sympathy.
And mine too, lots of it ... but tempting as those fantasies are, they don't really help anybody. I've been there twice with neighbours: once with a neighbour who got so agressive that I had to call the police for protection, and another time with a neighbour who proffered the cake. Having seen how far we got once we actually sat down (after very heated confrontations), I'd never say it's too late.
What's to lose here? A little bit of time, a few bob for a few drinks with a chance (however small) of a solution -- or the inevitability of ongoing nastiness?
Name-change time: NoWheels + Almera = NowWheels
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I think you should move next door to Machika, Nowwheels....
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I think you should move next door to Machika, Nowwheels....
I don't think that poor Machika has done anything to deserve such a terrible fate ;)
But another idea did occur to me: if the idea of extending a big olive branch seemed to much, how about Neighbour Mediation? www.mediationuk.org.uk/template.asp?lv=2&MenuItemI...1
Machika and his wife are clearly upset by the confrontation, and that mught be another way of easing things.
Name-change time: NoWheels + Almera = NowWheels
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First, in answer to NowWheels, our cars are only parked on the road occasionally. I was using the Xantia during the week my wife was on holiday, firstly, because I prefer driving it, secondly, because it is more economical, and thirdly, because it is normally seldom used. We don't park the C5 next to the house because it is wider than the Xantia and it would make it even more difficult for our next door neighbour to get out of his van (and for ourselves to get out of the C5, of course). I also wish to avoid getting dents in the C5. The Xantia is normally parked on the drive (as it is now) for days on end, sometimes for a week or more.
Secondly, in response to the issue that nobody has a right to park on the road, as I have stated in an earlier post, there are thousands of people, in countless locations, throughout the country, who have no option but to park on the road. It causes hundreds of streets to be virtually one way systems. If someone objects to them being on the road, what is to be done? In addition, if an individual were to be singled out for action, as a result of a complaint by a neighbour, it would surely set a precedent and could not be limited to that individual, if there were like for like examples in the same street or locality.
Finally, the assertion by our neighbour, that he and his wife can't get out of their drive, without difficulty, is just not true. We do sometimes reverse out onto the road from our drive. It is not a busy road and it is not difficult to reverse out onto the nearside. This morning I got out with no difficulty, when a large furniture van was parked on the opposite side, adjacent to our drive.
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Finally, the assertion by our neighbour, that he and his wife can't get out of their drive, without difficulty, is just not true. We do sometimes reverse out onto the road from our drive. It is not a busy road and it is not difficult to reverse out onto the nearside.
How can you base your neighbours driving and manoeuvring ability on that of your own?
Try looking in any car park to see how many cars that aren't parked properly, or the kafuffle some people make at manoeuvring into, or out of a parking space.
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How can you base your neighbours driving and manoeuvring ability on that of your own?
It is only what I would expect of anyone who has a full driving licence. They are not learner drivers and it is not a difficult manoeuvre. Any road user has the right to expect a certain minimum level of skill from any other driver. I am not the world's greatest at reversing myself but I get by, and if I find it difficult at any time, I don't go blaming others for my limitations.
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Outstanding clarity of thought and expression from NW. Diplomacy rules!
Machika, perhaps you could get neighbour to join the forum and have his point of view scrutinised. I seem to recall that two neighbours did actually post here once ...
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Outstanding clarity of thought and expression from NW. Diplomacy rules! Machika, perhaps you could get neighbour to join the forum and have his point of view scrutinised. I seem to recall that two neighbours did actually post here once ... Hawkeye ----------------------------- Stranger in a strange land
Now that is a good idea. The point made emphatically by NW, that it's never too late for a charm offensive, is also compelling. It can be damn difficult with some people though.
The neighbour would have to put his POV in rational form that could stand up to scrutiny.
Fear of such exposure is what often leads to violence, psychic and sneaking in this case but sometimes the real thing.
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It's situations like this that sometimes leads to one party or the other moving house. If only we didn't have to have neighbours!
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L\'escargot.
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