It was Sainsbury's, Locksbottom Steve (hope this doesn't come under naming and shaming - shouldn't do as car park is no longer run by the supermarket.)
So, so far I should request in my form for a picture and see what happens next?
|
You sure its Brompley LA that has issued the PCN HF? Is this a PCN Code 83?
Normally Supermarket Car Parks are non Council owned and owners of land farm out Parking Enforcement (Civil) to private firms such as Euro Car Parks who are in it for the money and have no comprhension of Public Relations.
Either way failure to pay will lead to civil action for recovery as a Debt - call in the bailiffs after CC hearing.
But there are grounds to appeal, firstly through the LA if they have issued the Notice (they usually refuse) so next step is the Parking Adjudicator.
www.parking-appeals.gov.uk
There is a proviso that terms of parking have to be displayed and from what you say as you have to feed a meter then there will be details at that point.
Out on the road under parking bay restrictions (other than London) there is a requirement at law that either the PCN is stuck on the car or handed to the driver. Can you argue this was not done?
Consider writing back to whosoever issued the PCN pointing out that you have no recollection of any infringment and would have been so if handed a Notice or one had been affixed to the vehicle. Bearing in mind the ease and number of vehicles that are cloned, a prevelant occurrence,what evidence have they that it was your vehicle and to furnish you this. On this point be aware that some Attendants photograph the offending driverless vehicle or even make a note of the number of the vehicle Excise Licence displayed. You may wish to mention that if they have definite proof that your vehicle was involved, the absence of a PCN placed on your vehicle has led to an increase in the penalty as you had no indication and as such should not be denied the right to pay at the lower rate. (May work???).
Also point out until such time as the matter is resolved then any addition charges should be put on hold, which they have to do.
If they cannot prove it was your vehicle they should disengage but if they don't then consider taking it further along the line to the Adjudicator.
Dvd
|
|
Hiya DVD - It is a very large LA controlled car park and the T&C's are very prominently displayed at all of the pay points.
|
HF
A similar thing happened here:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=37297&...e
The OP hasn't yet posted the outcome but, rather than repeat my post here, may I offer the same information to you.
H
|
DVD thanks, your message is invaluable, and I will act on it as soon as I can. Really grateful for that. Cannot prove a thing, but I will try.
Hugo and MazdaMan (really? You changed your name?) thanks also. Unless someone tells me otherwise I am going with DVD here.
I cannot prove anything at all but unless someone tells mw otherwise I am going down the DVD path.
This probably will go on for a bit, so any more info at all is much appreciated. For now though, I am going with DVD.
But thanks to all others!
HF
|
Sorry, for not making this clear before. Council have quoted 66, 76 and schedule A,amended; Still going with DVD, I have seen his advice to others and am taking it now. Somethimg wrong with my message but dunno what.
Hsppy New Year!
And loads more questions, just got to take in DVD's info first.
See you v soon xxx
|
I had a dispute over parking in a 'pay and display' area when I was a permit holder and was under the impression that permit holders could use pay and display bays.
I disputed this ticket on the grounds that the permit on the windscreen constituted 'pay and display' anyway, as it was paid for and displayed and I was parked within 'my' zone.
Although I thought I was onto a loser I pursued the matter and appealed, having the fine doubled along the way as I hadn't paid within the period of grace.
However, it paid off in the end because the council sent me a letter explaining why they'd upheld the penalty, explaining that I had parked in a permit holder's bay without a pay and display ticket - the opposite of what I'd actually done!! When this was brought to their attention they waived the penalty!
So try and get the council to wrong-foot themselves in writing, which would make the grounds for the penalty invalid.
I must add that I'm not against parking penalties, only misleading ones. In my case, the pay and display bays were empty and there were some empty permit holder bays only metres away I'd have used if I'd known the exact rules.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
|
|
|
|
My BIL is a manager at Sainsbury's, IIRC currently at Locksbottom. This car park is owned by Sainsbury, but managed by the local council. Recently he estimated that the store looses about £100,000 of turnover per week due to the 3 hour limit. This allows customers to also go shopping locally and again IIRC I think that this is also the store next to a hospital, allowing many hospital visitors 3 hours cheap parking. He wished he could return the running of the car park back to the store, but it is beyond his control.
On an aside he was given a ticket for not displaying his permit, even when appealing to the parking office they did not cancel it - despite him being the store manager. He was really cheesed off as technically it's his store's car park.
--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
|
That's the very same carpark I was referring to. Coincidence eh?
Doesn't sound like I have much hope! - but I'll post back with any result.
How long should it be, if I get no response, till I can assume I am out of the woods, does anyone know?
HF
|
|
|
Recently he estimated that the store looses about £100,000 of turnover per week due to the 3 hour limit.
Sounds like this was his argument to his area manager for his sales! Average shopping is £70 a visit. Thats close on 1500 customers he has missed out on!
|
Yes, the manager at this store is my BiL. As he has worked for Sainsbury's for years, he is a senior manager, refusing to move to Head Office as he prefers shop floor contact. All managers work in a regional area and can be moved to another store at the drop of a hat. He was moved here because of his past performance at raising store sales. He is a very motivational manager and well like by all the staff who work for him. He is the only manager in the region that organises a staff Christmas panto, including joining them on stage. Also he always receives a leaving present from the branch when he leaves, most managers are moved for doing a bad job and sraff are glad they have left.
HF, why not pop into the store and have a word with Michael Ingledew, my BiL. I feel sure he would like to know of your problem. He may not be able to help you directly, but may help him with ammunition to get changes made to the car park arrangements (possibly stopping the Council running it).
--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
|
My local council operates similar pay and park charges on a large shopping mall near the town centre - it's a pure financial racket.
One of the main stores is an Asda and, of course, it refunds customers' parking fees if they spend a certain amount, but doesn't help its profits.
As you would expect, those parking pay on entry for fixed periods, priced accordingly.
You will, of course, realise that many people pay more than they need to make sure they don't get a parking ticket and £30 fine (the same traffic wardens that patrol the on-street parking also oversee the car park).
That means that more often then not they return to their cars long before the ticket runs out, so other motorists take their place and, of course, often pay more than they need....
So each parking space might make 20-40 per cent extra daily in overpaid parking fees - nice work if you can get it.
The overall result is that most people use the Tesco on the outskirts of the town, which has become the company's second most successful in the UK, or Morrisons where parking is also free.
In the meantime the town centre shops are closing down on a regular basis, yet the council still insists on draconian onstreet car parking regulations being upheld by the wardens which results in many parking fines for the unsuspecting.
That deters both local and visiting shoppers from using their cars and eventually leads to the resulting shop closures, but still the council can't see the error of its ways. That's criminal in a holiday resort which relies heavily on visitors.
I wish you luck with your efforts over the unwanted Christmas present but, unfortunately, as I said before in the forums, this country is slowly but surely being turned into a totalitarian state and the general apathy on the part of the public is extremely disturbing.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
>>why not pop into the store and have a word with Michael Ingledew, my BiL.
If I were a supermarket manager and some unknown woman came in to say that the Artful Dodger had recommended she ask my advice over a parking fine, I might find it a little strange. :)
Bobby, are you saying you work for this supermarket? For somr reason I thought you were in Scotland.
|
Yes Bobby. You are in Scotland ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
