Peugeot 106 (1991 - 2002) - 1997 Diesel Cold Starting

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Thu 29 Sep 2005 21:48
1997 Diesel Cold Starting - RWright
I have a 1997 model with only 56K miles on it, which has been regularly serviced. On cold days (under 5 degrees C) it takes 2 or 3 goes to start for the first time. In warmer weather, or being re-started later there is no problem at all.

The hot plugs were checked by a Peugeot dealer last winter and found to be ok, but they had no further suggestions on the cause. The fuel filter was changed at 42k Miles. I would be grateful for any ideas as to what may be going wrong.

{amended to make use of drop down menus that weren't previously available when this question was first created}

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 17/09/2008 at 19:19

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Thu 29 Sep 2005 22:08
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Civic8
Glow plugs is usually the cause,cannot think of any other reason.though it has been known for G/Plugs to be faulty even when they appear to be fine-tested
--
Steve
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Thu 29 Sep 2005 22:33
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - madf
Agree with Steve. SwWMBO's 106 has 2 fail after 7 years. If you can wield a spanner an easy chnage.. test by holding in pliers /heatproof gloves and running live 12V to plus when removed (very hot). I replaced two with Halfords brand .. lasted 6 years so far.(others may have less happy experiences)

Apt to fail at any time.. 7-8 years seems about right.
madf
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Thu 29 Sep 2005 23:28
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - BobbyG
I have just replaced the glowplugs on my Saxo diesel which has the same engine as yours. Think they were £6 each at the most, and was an easy diy job.

Starting improved but then has steadily got worse. Like yours, it takes longer to start when cold, but always does start on the first crank, albeit you might have to turn it over for 5 or so seconds.

I remember commenting on this before to my mechanic and he said don't worry, we don't think of that as being a problem?
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Fri 30 Sep 2005 00:27
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - PhilW
Cheap glow plugs are false economy - try Beru ones , not much more expensive but last for years.
Phil
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Sat 1 Oct 2005 17:35
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - JohnD
It might not be a plug problem. Try giving the primer bulb a few squeezes before the first start of the day. If starting improves, look for a slight air leak.
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Sat 1 Oct 2005 23:25
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Spannerman1962
I appreciate your comment about regularly serviced but is worth checking the valve clearances they tend to close up on the inlet vaves they are shimmed and have to be reshimmed but checking is a step in the right direction the inlet clearances should be0.15mm
And the exhaust are0.30mm and should be checked cold
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Sun 2 Oct 2005 00:25
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Civic8
No need to shout Spannerman!! Now amended. DD
--
Steve
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Fri 16 Nov 2007 16:51
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Dan the Freak
I have the exact same problem with my 1996 106 1.5D, only 63k. I have replaced the Glow Plugs and its not worked. Someone has mentioned the glow plug relay to me, anyone have any info on what this is and how difficult it is to replace.
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Fri 16 Nov 2007 18:09
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Screwloose
Dan

On the O/S wheelarch. Test for feed to the plugs with a simple testlamp from flea-bay.

Tappets are the most likely problem if the plugs are working.
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Mon 19 Nov 2007 14:43
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - LinuxGeek
I had same or even worst starting problems with my 106 1.5D. On cold mornings I used to hand pump the fuel for a bit and then the car used to start the first time. Try it once and see what happens. I remember my right hand thumb used to hurt during those days and I'm glad I've got Mazda 323 diesel now. So far its been spot on with cold starts touchwood :)
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Mon 19 Nov 2007 17:23
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - 659FBE
On one occasion my partner's 106D was reluctant to cold start and I was called upon to investigate. It's a car I maintain and I had recently tested all the glowplugs in situ using a heavy ammeter.

The symptoms were consistent with poor pre-heat rather than a lack of fuel so I measured the voltage on the glowplugs during the pre-heat cycle (you have about 20 secs before the timer disconnects the plugs because you haven't tried to start the engine). The voltage was far too low - and variable.

Next stop, the controller mounted on the coolant header tank. The fault was immediately obvious, one of the two heavy leads was very loose on its ring tag - the nut was finger tight and the connection very hot.

Rather than just tightening it up I investigated (diesel development engineers never stop) and found PSA had used a nyloc nut to anchor the tag. Unfortunately the (Lucas) controller contains an internal shunt which makes the terminal get very hot when the unit is in use. Of course, the nylon ring had melted out of the nut.

A bronze shakeproof washer under the tag and a spring washer between the tag and the nut together with a coating of silicone grease restored normal (excellent) cold starting.

659.

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Thu 3 Jan 2008 10:30
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - davevincent
I have a peugeot 106 1.5 inca diesel 1995 and I am experiencing similar problems. When the engine is cold the car will not start at all, although the starter motor ticks over fine. (in warmer weather there isn't a problem.) It can be jumped from another car, but only if the latter's engine is revved up. The battery and alternator were changed only 2 years ago. When the car does start, it creates clouds of thick bluish smoke (and i get disapproving looks from the neighbours). Any advice on the most likely cause would be greatly appreciated. I'm guessing the valve clearances or the glowplugs might be the problem. I'm no mechanic, so I am a little concerned about getting ripped off at the garage.

Cheers!
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Fri 11 Jan 2008 12:15
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - kipb
Suggestion for davevincent. Its possible that your clouds of blue smoke when it does start are from excess fuel. So could be your injectors are partially blocked. Try a bottle of diesel injector cleaner in the fuel tank and take it for a drive.
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Fri 28 Mar 2008 15:22
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Uncle Stoatwarbler
I've just replaced all 4 glowplugs on my 106 (3 were open circuit) and found that the glowplug supply is 7V.

The connections on my glowplug timer are solid - thanks for the pointer. No meter to hand in order to measure terminal voltages, but it does strike me that as the timer only runs for 30 seconds that terminal shouldn't get hot enough to melt the nyloc nut unless there's already a problem such as a bad connection.

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Wed 17 Sep 2008 16:28
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Golfboy1971
I've got a similar problem on my Peugeot 106 with problems starting from cold.

I've done some testing and found that at the "supply" side of the glow plug control unit there is a permanent 12v (as it's prety much a direct feed from the battery) until such time as you turn the ignition key on ... that connection then drops to zero volts!. I have used an ohmmeter across the cable that comes from the battery to the feed side of the glow plug control unit and found that there is 68 ohms resistance! This is clearly not right as it is meant to be a direct cable.
According to the Haynes manual there is 1 splice in the cable (not sure where that leads to) so I am suspecting that the splice has become corroded over time and hence causing a slight break in the circuit.

Has anyone else had such a problem?

I know the glow plugs and everything else is OK, because I have put a connection direct from the battery onto the glow plug rail for a few seconds and the car starts first time after that.
I know the glow plug control relay is working because I've had an ohmmeter across the main pins on that and I can see (and hear) that it has closed the circuit correctly.
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Wed 17 Sep 2008 18:12
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Screwloose
Golfboy

What year and engine code is yours? Have you got a thick yellow cable coming off the positive battery terminal?
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Thu 18 Sep 2008 10:41
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Golfboy1971
Screwloose,

I'm not quite sure what the engine number is but it's a 1.5XND. The cable from the fusebox to the glow plug control unit is a moderately thick grey cable. The "load" side that goes to the glowplugs is a brown cable.
Hope that helps.

Someone suggested to me that maybe the "splice" I was talking about is where it connects to the starter motor solenoid permanent live connection. Does this sound right?

Thanks

Golfboy
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Thu 18 Sep 2008 11:18
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Golfboy1971
Screwloose

p.s. I forgot to mention, it's a 1997 model.
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Wed 17 Sep 2008 16:58
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - 659FBE
The "30 sec" (it's actually about 20 sec) timeout is the safety timer which disconnects the glowplugs if you turn the key and either fail to start the engine or it fails to start and you leave the key "on". It's there to prevent the battery becoming discharged and the plugs overheating.

In normal use, the TUD5 engine can give up to 5 minutes of post-heat when cold. This gives the controller ample time to get very hot. This is the cause of the loosening terminal nuts.

659.
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Thu 18 Sep 2008 17:26
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - 659FBE
This thread has slightly lost its continuity. As I have been associated with the TUD5 both as a user (my partner has one) and in fuel systems development, I'll list the "non starting" likely causes. The list assumes fair basic maintenance which includes the main fuel filter on the engine.

With the engine running, gently squeeze the black rubber priming bulb. If it does not return to shape immediately when released, the strainer in the tank is blocked. Access is via a plastic bung under the back seat - it's combined with the tank sender. Reconnect wiring and check glowplug voltage from controller during pre and post heat.

Check very carefully indeed the fuel input hose connection to the main filter - it's an "S" shaped hose running from the primer bulb outlet. Engine movement causes an air leak here. Cut 10mm off the hose and connect with a proper pipe clip.

Remove glowplug busbar and check each one in situ and in turn using a heavy lead with an ammeter in circuit from battery +. Each plug should draw about 15A initially, settling to about 5A after a few seconds. Replace any failures with Beru plugs (only).

Check injection pump timing using pegs (6mm drill shank fits pump hub, M8 bolt locks camshaft hub, tapered 6mm drift locks crank if you can find the hole).

Check valve clearances - especially inlets.

Report back.

659.

Edited by 659FBE on 18/09/2008 at 17:30

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Thu 18 Sep 2008 17:34
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - 659FBE
Edit timed out. The instruction to reconnect glowplug wiring and check voltage should of course follow disconnection and testing of the plugs in-situ.

659.
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Mon 22 Sep 2008 12:52
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Golfboy1971
I finally discovered the problem. From the fusebox the "grey" wire (which is the glowplug control unit permanent 12v supply lead) goes into a big round multipoint connecter just in front of the battery.
Clearly there has been problems with that in the past because some previous owner had spliced into the wiring loom and put a patch cable in place, completely bypassing this multipoint connector.
Unfortunately the connection on this patch cable had corroded over time and lost it's connection. I remade the connection and all is perfect again now.
The glowplug orange light now shows on the dashboard again and the glowplugs are heating normally!
Thank goodness for that :-D

Golfboy
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Mon 22 Sep 2008 12:53
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - Golfboy1971
p.s. thanks to everyone for their input on this problem.

Golfboy
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Thu 17 Feb 2011 20:37
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - bobian

Hi just to let people know my car is still starting fine, with my wiring modification

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Sun 28 Nov 2010 20:23
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - bobian

hi, golfboy, came out to my 1997 pug 106 yesterday morning, found it wouldnt start and no glow plug light, I put a test lamp on the grey wire (perminant live) terminal at the control unit end, there was no current detected, So I took a piece of heavy duty wire, and ran it to the postive battery terminal, and hey presto starts first time, I suspect this circuit has been playing up for some time, as the car now starts much better than it used it. My question is, can I leave my solution perminent ? I have ran the new wire along the loom and fastened it with cable ties.

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Fri 18 Mar 2016 09:17
Peugeot 106 Diesel Cold Starting - rodbick

I had intermittent problems traced to the controller, in this case it was dirty or warn relay contacts within the controll unit.

Its a bit of an issue prising the cover of, but once done the single contact pair are accessable & easialy cleaned with fine wet and dry.

I replaced the cover by sticking it back with silacone rubber as removing it broke the inaccessable "once on never of" clips. this seals it yp from engin compartment contamination, necessary as the electronics controll board is otherwise unprotected.

106 xnd zest 2, 240K miles

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