Thanks to everyone who has tried to help me. I think I may have solved it. Yesterday I had another look at the pump (in the tank). I noticed that although the fuel pipes were clicked on ok using the spring loaded clips which go over the ridges on the pump outlets, one of them was not pushed quite as far onto the pump as it could go. (only a little further)I thought it would be worth a try to wiggled the pipes about and push them on further. I then started the car and it was fine. I have driven it on a 50 mile round trip today and its been fine again (touch wood)
Perhaps some air was being sucked into the pump causing all the problems?
Hopefully this is the end of this saga, hopefully the fault will stay away. I hope this thread will help anyone with a simliar problem, although I can't explain how it seems to be fixed!
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Well I spoke too soon. Tonight it has gone back to its 2,200 rpm mode again after three solid days of no problems. I restarted and it had problems idling in neutral then stalled. When I switched off before the problem started again it ran on for a few secs.
Fuel lines are still solidly on the fuel pump, have not moved at all.
What to try first, fuel filter?
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Hi
Did you ever solve this problem? I have virtually identical symptoms:
Engine cut out whilst driving along - apparent fuel starvation
now, after changing fuel filter:
Engine limited to 2,300 rpm then cuts out after few seconds.
What did you do?
Ivan
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Hello dudes!
Glad i found you!
My 306 2.0 (petrol) started cutting out when i took my foot off the gas at roundabouts, junctions etc. It also cut its self out when left sitting idle for a long time...traffic lights etc. When i first push on the pedal, the revs actually drop slightly before lifting. This problem got so bad in the end that i couldn't even get the car started at all. Eventually i realised i needed to replace the catalytic converter....(EVEN THO IT SOUNDED FINE!!) this fixed the problem perfectly for a month.
But then, guess what,....it started happening again!
This means that something is killing the catalytic converter and this was only a symtom of another problem. Could it be a fuel leak? im not seeing any smoke from my exhaust. The sensor near the cat is called the lambda, its about £80 (fitted) i may have to try that. If either of you get this sorted let me know!
p.s. what would happen if the ecu malfunctioned, would the car still run ok??
i know that injectors are controlled by the ecu, would it read the settings on your newly replaced fuel pumps if it wasn't functioning correctly? i dont know a lot about the ecu's control over the cars prformance but i know peugeot charge around £600 to fix it!
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heapofjunk
Ideally, it might have been a good idea to have started a new thread for yours. The previous was for a HDi 2.0 and yours is some version of a petrol XU10. The year and engine code [it's in the VIN number; 3 letters from RFT to RFY] will be needed to identify the exact variant.
Stalling when coming to rest and an idling fault are not typical symptoms of a cat failure. The failure to start at all sounds like a concurrent problem [quite possibly that was a blocked cat] that was not related to that issue. Now that the idle issue has returned; just assuming that the cat has failed again is a huge leap, not supported by any stated evidence. Don't rush into component replacement on a complex feedback system without direct evidence of failure - it tends to gets rather expensive.
ECU malfuctions are, thankfully, rare. It has total control of the whole of the engine management; so any ECU fault will have some effect; the severity of which would depend on which section has failed.
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idling and stalling problems on a petrol 306 is likely to be the idle contorl valve, there notorious for filling and id imagine if they cause sustained erratic fueling for long enough some unburned fuel could damage the cat. a new one can be picked up off ebay for around £35 or you can clean your current one with carb cleaner(use carb claner not wd40 as the silicone content causes it to stick again very shortly) but the problem will return eventually
chris
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and also remember to reset the ecu once you have cleaned/replaced the valve before running it
chris
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Have just collected my sons Peugeot 306 HDi 2.0 this evening after a long problem, the car would throw up the warning light on the dash and go into limp mode ie no higher than 2300 rpm and a tendancy to engine over run when switched off, took it to local repairers who are pretty good, they reset ecu, one of the messages was low fuel pressure , car was OK for a few days and then fault reoccured, they spoke to Peugeot who said could be Lifter pump in tank, this was changed and my son collected car, 3 miles down the road fault back, repairers sent off the injectors for testing as they are very expensive, under soak test they showed OK. Attention was turned to the fuel shut off solenoid valve on the high pressure pump a ropy "O" ring was found and replaced and they had a filter ultrasonically cleaned. Repairer took car for 25 mile run and commented that it seems to have more pull now, collected this evening and took for a run, so far so good. It seems that the fuel flow was being restricted to the high pressure pump and when it fell below a threshold the ecu would throw up the warning light and go into limp mode. I might add that a few days before this fault first occured my son put a bottle of injector cleaner in the fuel tank, coincidence ??. might be worth checking the above if anyone is suffering numerous warning lights that reset and reoccur. Will repost if fault comes back.
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With regard to the injector cleaner in the fuel tank and a possible coincidence. From my experience I would say almost certainly tis NOT a coincidence.
As being a Peugeot 306 HDI owner for several years the same thing happened to me after I'd used an injector cleaner!
The sorry tale of woe started with the diagnostics light coming on, then after a few miles the car went into limp mode and would only start up again after turning the starter key on and off.
Anyway to cut a long story short all was OK again after I suggested to the garage to change the fuel filter ......... Needless to say after that rather expensive and inconvenient episode I haven't bothered adding any fuel additive / cleaner into the fuel tank any longer ...!
Presently as of June 26 on my way to work I went through a lake on the road, although getting through the Lake the car petered out, the diagnostic indicator is showing on the dash and the Peugeot 306 HDI has gone into limp mode. Anyway it started again straight away but it continued to misfire for about 30 seconds until it cleared again and drove ok still with the diagnostic K indicator showing on the dashboard (actually the K is the symbol for a transistor) .
I've now cleaned out the dampness in the air intake, including drying out the air filter. But the diagnostic warning light is still on and the vehicle remains limp mode. I dried out the air intake sender too which has an element in it. With drying it out possibly I have moved part of the element slightly ..., perhaps this elements position is critical in the operation of the sender? . Although I have moved it in several different position but all to no avail ?
Hopefully though perhaps all that is required is an electronic control unit reset ? Anybody know how to reset the Bosch ECU ...?
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same problem here with the hdi ...a little time ago, just got it back today with new fuel pump pressure problem and cleaned sensor...three miles and 650 quid later it died.
seems the local garages aint got a clue.. i am no mechanic but i think the ecu need a propper reset at the main dealer...had a cam belt change and everything went down hill from there really .
dash lights still say service required as the main dealer must be able to reset this, could this be fooling the ecu...
i am trying to think logically on this so your feedback would be great.
keith.jayes at btinternet.com
Duplicate post deleted for you. Rob.
Not sure I'd want my email on a website due to spam so amended that too. Hope that's okay with you.
Edited by rtj70 on 21/11/2008 at 22:33
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Dear Keith,
I have just seen your post on the Honest John forum, and since I have had a very similar experience, I thought that you might like to hear how I solved the problem.
At the outset, I am not an expert by any means. I bought a new Peugeot 306HDi in 2001, and suffered a catalogue of problems all related to the engine management light coming on, the engine going into limp mode and then eventually cutting out whilst driving. In addition, when I switched the engine off, it would run on for two or three seconds.
I tried everything. The local Peugeot garage could not track the fault down and even said that I must have put unsuitable fuel in the tank. After that, I went to a large garage that supposedly specialised in diesels and left the car there. They replaced the most expensive bits, and the car came back and ran for a few days, but then the old problems came back with vengeance. I had an almost new car that I didn't dare drive anywhere, because I never knew when it was going to let me down. No-one could come up with an answer.
Things came to a head this year, when I decided to have one last attempt to get it sorted (I had owned the car for almost seven years by now, and it was still like new, because I never trusted it to go anywhere...am I patient or what?!). I went to a long established diesel engine specialist in Leeds, who had experience of exactly this type of problem. They fixed it straight away and it has run like a dream ever since.
So, I am sure you want to know what they did? Remember I am not a techie, so I will do my best to explain. It seems that in the high pressure pump, there is some sort of very fine filter, the job of which is to remove any tiny contaminants before the fuel goes into the pump and common rail/injectors. It was this filter that was blocking up, and the diesel specialists said that they had found that it was a very tricky job to get the main fuel filter element (the one that goes inside a canister before the high pressure pump) to seat and seal properly. Many are replaced in the course of a normal service, but not fitted correctly, so what happens is that unfiltered fuel bypasses around the side and then goes on to clog up the really tiny filter in the high pressure pump. The Peugeot HDi engine requires the fuel to be perfectly clean by the time it enters the high pressure pump. Even though I always buy BP or Total diesel, there is always some contamination present, either from the bottom of my tank or in the fuel itself. It was this, passing around the main fuel filter, that was blocking the very fine filter in the high pressure pump. They said that this problem had reared its head many times, and that they had even had some Peugeots in and found that some poor desperate mechanic in the past had taken to hacksawing the high pressure pump filter off entirely.
So, my Peugeot now runs perfectly, and since I always buy good fuel, I don't intend to mess about with the fuel filter any time soon. Best leave well alone!
I hope this helps. I really reached the end of my tether with this car, but in the end, the solution was very simple.
Regards,
David
PS. The diesel specialist who sorted out the problem were called Sewell of Leeds.
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David
Thanks for the additional info; that fault, blocking of the filter in the tip of the pressure regulator, is why I've always said that the fuel filter element should never be replaced on an HDi - only the complete housing as a unit.
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Hi Screwloose,
Sorry to ask more questions but is this the same part that if it has metal shards in it the pump is on it's way out? Where about is it please.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Steve
Big, black, plastic, unit dead centre of the front of the engine. Two quick-release fuel-line connectors on top and a two-wire plug underneath.
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So it's part of the fuel filter housing?
Thanks.
Steve.
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The fuel filter housing should be considered as disposable. It's opening it that causes a lot of the trouble on HDis.
Other manufacturers use sealed filters that have to be hacksawed to check for debris.
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Thanks for confirming this.
Steve.
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"Many are replaced in the course of a normal service, but not fitted correctly, so what happens is that unfiltered fuel bypasses"
In a popular DIY Mag there was an article on servicing Fiat diesels with a similar sounding- filter in plastic housing - diesel fuel filter. The article and pics clearly showed a mechanic unscrewing the top of the plastic housing *in situ on the car* pulling the old filter out and dropping a new one into the housing still on the car....
No effort to drain and swill out the housing which would of course retain any debris and water in the bottom. This was seemingly the garages `normal` practice and as such seemed to have got into the magazine without reference to the correct procedure of removing the whole housing from the car in order for it to be cleaned out and carefully reassembled *on the bench*
On the same topic, track back with me about 15 yrs.... The car at the time had an open top, spin on metal canister diesel filter. I asked a mechanic at a main dealers about whether it would self prime or would need filling before fitting. He said (burnt into my memory) " I just tip the old one into the new one and fit it"
Both demonstrate how elements of the trade, will take the easiest option, faced with dealing with customers cars.
And the moral in this?
1) DIY if you can, there are no limits to the time and quality you can apply to a job regarding cleanliness and doing it properly.
2) Design engineers need to be aware of the actions of the servicing mechs that are not interested or able to do a thorough job.
In this context, the type of metal canister fuel filter that only has push on connections, seems superior - if only because there are no quality degrading short cuts to its fitment by the trade.
Incidentally, on a Fiat I changed my own element type diesel fuel filter, this involved.
1) thorough cleaning of the outside of the filter housing and pipes before starting.
2) Disconnected pipes elastic banded into small plastic wraps.
3) Several rinses out of housing off the car.
4) Clean gloves on handling new element - clean housing on a clean workbench.
5) New element carefully twisted into position and at all times the filter entry point in the cap of the housing kept scrupulously clean.
You have to feel sorry for the trade really (this is not a criticism) at being faced with the element type filter and being expected to do a proper job within time limits..
oilrag
Edited by oilrag on 03/12/2008 at 09:50
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Hi. Having similar problems with 2002 Pugeot Expert 2.0 hdi. Where do I find this "filter on the tip of the pressure regulator. Is it the part on the back of the pump held on by two torx bolts?
Thanks.
Modee.
SQ
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/01/2009 at 02:19
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I found this thread via T'Internet! And sounds VERY similar to my tale of woe!
I am in France but car is a UK reg 306 and the previous owner used Heating Oil to run it!! Anyway he did the same with his XM and managed to clean that! BUT I very strongly suspect he has tried the same regime with this one and failed! I bought the car cheap but knowing a problem existed!
Right, symptoms are a LITTLE different insofar as the car will NOT start under normal conditions! Squirt a bit of brake cleaner and off she goes! Runs great and drives superbly! NO loss of power at all! Then switch off and again will not start on the key! Spray and away she goes! Now this to me sounds like ALL injectors are clear? And it COULD be the filter in the rail which is blocking the fuel? Now the 10M$ questions is could the previous respondent from Leeds let me know who he went to? Or has anyone anymore ideas PLEASE?? If anyone wants to call me direct my number is available by PM. I will call anyone in the UK at MY cost if they think they are able to help. Just that this way I always think it is of more help than TRYING to put into print what you need to say?
Chris
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Hi everyone
Its give me piece of mind reading all of these reports. Im starting to feel like my Peugeot 306 hdi is starting to become an ongoing nightmare. The problems started about a 4 months ago. I was driving along normally and the car cut-out without warning. The diagnostic light came on. The car then started almost straight away. I thought that would be the end of it but it has been happening over and over again, especially when accelerating! I will also say that i've been getting diesel off a friend and filling it from a canister. I did a few checks such as checking the fuel pump in the tank and it turned out that it wasn't working. I bought a new one and immediately the diesel started flowing into the fuel filter. When i tried to start the car up it turned over but wouldn't start. Towed it to the garage and the mechanic gave me a few codes. One was for high pressure pump sensor, one for immobiliser and other crankshaft sensor. The mechanic also said that the problem could be the solonoid on the high pressure fuel pump. He also said it could be injectors, a bad earth or other possibilites!!!!!
Can anyone help????
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Hi Chris, I've had exactly the same problem, it was even cutting out while driving, we finally worked it out, its was what someone has already mentioned in a previous comment, the PRESSURE SENSOR REGULATOR. If flow is restricted, it won't start! I was advised to changed, but we were luckly enough to see the dirt! Its better, but still not 100%, so I plan to change tomorrow. Been advised this part is available from Bosch which is about 90 UK Pounds.
Regards Justin.
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i have this problem as well, i replaced the fuel rail pressure sensor because that is what the code reader told me and it went great problem solved, but then a few miles down the road it stuttered once and then the problem was back......... what do i do now???? help please.
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It seems that in the high pressure pump there is some sort of very fine filter the job of which is to remove any tiny contaminants before the fuel goes into the pump and common rail/injectors.
Can anyone shed some light as to whereabouts this secondary filter is located exactly?
If poss, a picture of a HDI pump with this circled would be excellent.
Many thanks in advance if someone can come up with this, as I reckon this could well be what is causing my Partner HDI to not perform as well as it should be.
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>> It seems that in the >> high pressure pump there is some sort of very fine filter the job of which >> is to remove any tiny contaminants before the fuel goes into the pump and common >> rail/injectors. Can anyone shed some light as to whereabouts this secondary filter is located exactly? If poss, a picture of a HDI pump with this circled would be excellent. Many thanks in advance if someone can come up with this, as I reckon this could well be what is causing my Partner HDI to not perform as well as it should be.
having the same problems did you ever get a picture of this filter, is it meant to be able to be removed
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