Hi,
This is my first post, and I'm looking for help / opinions.
I am looking to change my car any time now - I currently drive a Seat Toledo, and although it has been the best car I've ever owned, try as I might, I don't like the new one.
Therefore, having done a lot of research, I have narrowed down to 3, and there are pros and cons of each. Your opinions would be appreciated, especially if there are
Peugeot 407 - best looker, but we have the biggest speed bumps in the world and I'd hate to spend 18k on a car and find I can't get it up my street. Have any other owners had trouble with the long low front overhang?
Citroen C5 - from the same stable, majors on safety and comfort which is a big factor for me as I drive 35k miles a year - but can I trust it's reliability and how many mortgages will I need if the suspension goes wrong?
Skoda Octavia - Good in many ways - but is it good enough to win?
Thanks
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Welcome!
I think it depends to some extent on whether you want to buy new or used. There are several Citroen fans amongst us who swear by (rather than at) their C5s and have found them reliable, just as I found previous Renaults: unfortunately not all are as good and the market doesn't like medium to large French cars, so their value drops like a stone. 3 years old or more - they must be a bargain.
If you're going for new or nearly-new, I'd suggest the Skoda. The old model has always been well reviewed and the new one even more so. Lots of room, especially the estate, and the bigger engines have plenty of oomph. Cheaper and just as good as the equivalent VW, and the dealers are better.
Also, with each of your choices I'd go for the biggest diesel engine.
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I was looking at the deal rather than whether it was new or used to be honest. Either way it would be nearly new if not brand new - if it was the C5 or the Octavia it would be the new style versions.
I'm not so bothered about the depreciation as, when you've put 130k on it in about 3 1/2 years it's not worth that much to anybody, whatever the badge on the front. My Toledo, which is a shade under 4 years old, is going to struggle to part ex for 2.5k.
The funny thing is that, with all the boys toys (pre-requisite to keep me happy on those long hours on the motorway) the C5 is the most expensive of the lot of them - seems reasonable so far. But when I search round for good deals, the discounts to be had on the C5 make it the cheapest of the lot of them - and seems to me to be a reasonable trade off for the depreciation hit.
I just can't get past this reliability thing though.
The car has got to go for 130k miles without letting me down once preferably. No matter how many toys it has got, if I can't rely on it to start it is not worth tuppence.
Will it do that?
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How much do you like your current Toledo? The Octavia will be more of the same, but better.
The C5 is a very good car, but it makes more sense as a £12k, 1.6 HDi LX, or at least it does to me - a car to do a job, rather than an object of desire (which I'd say you need at £18k!).
Of the three I, as a 406 owner, would probably go for a 407 SE, either a 1.6 or 2.0 diesel (I do 20 - 25k a year) but I do like the three cars very much. I can't advise you on the speed bumps though.
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I know what you mean - very good question. The Toledo has been great - not that big, but....
Very nice drive - very nice engine and holds the road well.
Very highly specced - ridiculously so for the price paid.
50 to the gallon regular as clockwork.
never let me down.
Still looks good, if a little "old hat".
I would expect that the Octavia is a good buy, but funny thing is that there is a bigger options list than the others as less comes as standard - and by the time you've slashed your pen round the form it is more expensive that the C5 - should I be paying that much for a Skoda?
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I would plump for the C5, get a nearly-new pre-face-lift version from a car supermarket as they will have de-valued so much more now the new one is out and about.
Wait for few weeks for the new 05 2005 plates to hit the showrooms for the best deals on the old shapes, try your dealers as well if they have old stock.
To be honest 130K should be fine and I am not aware of great problems with the suspension. All I have heard about is electrical gremlins one the top of the range cars as there is soooooo many wires / conections on all the toys.
The Skoda wold still be a good choice. If you fancy some fun go for a vRS. They are the old shape but are being priced to sell accordingly. 180hp and lots of goodies. Well recommended but the polar opposite of the soft riding C5.............
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Ride comfort (seats are very comfortable) and space (more room in the back than a 407)is the big factor in favour of the C5. Also, the HDI engines are very smooth and quiet but they are not as frugal as the VAG TDIs, I don't think, apart from the new 1.6 HDI, which is incredibly fuel efficient. Financially, you should get a much better deal with a C5 than a 406, I would think, and looking at the prices on drivethedeal.com, there are no great discounts on Skodas.
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Thanks HJ.
As one who I suspect has definitely driven the 407 have you got a view on that low front overhang, and the overall low presence on the road.
I'd be scard to drive it over any kind of speed bumps (you know the ones where they are not wide enought to require you to slow much as the wheels go either side of them - so you just drive straight over them - will I have any underbody left if I did that?)
And our big lon speed humps up our street - as high as the kerb - fill me with apprehension.
can you reassure me that I'm worrying unnecessarily.
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I have a W reg Octavia 1.9TDI, so the old shape. It has quite low ground clearance and the undertray crunches over say 50% of speed humps.
I would imagine that you may feel at home in the Skoda if you bought a late old model, and they are apparently very similar to the Toldeo and Bora. If it was me, i would go for the new model Octavia considering new vs old, because the old one is showing its age. No cupholders for a start! But externally they don't look much different.
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Sorry to confuse things but of you're looking at around the £18K (as indicated in first post) have a look at Honda Accord Diesel.
Although it looks dearer new, it's very well equipped, especially the Exec - the only factory options are sat nav and bigger wheels.
It 'should' do 50MPG, although there have been 1 or 2 reports of people not always getting that. It also 'should' (being a Honda) be pretty reliable, and, relevant to your use, I think the w'tee is 90K miles when it's only 60K on many other.
The diesel engine is has is truly fabulous in terms of it's smoothness and power delivery compared to VAG units.
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We took a holiday in the French Alps last spring. Decided to fly to Paris and hire a car. They gave us a C5 V6 automatic. It was superb. In fact, it was so good we decided to extend our break and tour Provence and beyond. Handled like a dream - mountains and autoroutes. Satnav was brillant, HMI was faultless, in French too!...
Downside?...the V6 drinks petrol but what else would you expect.
Would I buy one? I might if I didn't have my Volvo....
Squeeky
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I was just thinking its about time sombody recommends an oldsmobile(honda).large engined vag diesel power delivery is very good so gotta disagree with that statement.
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Sorry to confuse things but of you're looking at around the £18K (as indicated in first post) have a look at Honda Accord Diesel.
Well, actually, no amount of money was mentioned in the original post. If you are referring to rrp, then maybe £18000 would be applicable. However, real prices for a C5 HDI are a lot less than that (even for an Exlusive model) but the cheapest Accord diesel is almost £18000 with the discount.
As far as engines are concerned, I have no experience of the Honda, but the PSA HDIs are very refined. Anything quieter than the 2.2 HDI in our C5 would have to be almost silent. The Honda engine would seem to be more economical though (but not enough to make up for the big difference in purchase price).
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Why not try the Mondeo Tdci 130 or 115? Pick up a second hand one and you'll do 50 to the Gallon! The ride is a little hard but comes with huge boot. The C5 has been restyled recently but the 407 looks nicer. I'm a little worried with the front end of the 407 taking knocks as no protection on it! The "little" Volvo V40/V50 is available with the 1.6 PSA diesel(soon?)and could be a very smart alternative with good re-sale value. The new Ford Focus has the same 1.6 diesel engine too....it's really amazing to drive and lower weight compared to 407 could give you more perforamnce too.
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I've got an Accord diesel tourer which I'm struggling to get
40mpg out of, ok the power delivery is impressive but it's not as economical as is suggested.
If I do 70-75mph on motorways - I will get 40-42mpg but my
old Passat 130 TDI used to give me this without trying.
At least one other Accord driver on this forum and several elsewhere have similar issues.
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I've got an Accord diesel tourer which I'm struggling to get 40mpg out of, ok the power delivery is impressive but it's not as economical as is suggested. If I do 70-75mph on motorways - I will get 40-42mpg but my old Passat 130 TDI used to give me this without trying. At least one other Accord driver on this forum and several elsewhere have similar issues.
Perhaps not as ecomomical as a PSA HDI then? Perhaps even less value for money than a C5?
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RW, have you test driven these cars ? If not why not take another TD and take it down the particular speed humped (!) streets that are worrying you.
Good Luck
P
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If you go for the Citroen, don't worry about its reliability.
Find yourself a good independent and use them for services etc once the warranty runs out. They'll be a great source for advice whilst the warranty is in place as well.
H
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Thanks for all the replies - very useful.
At this stage I think I'm looking at a new style C5, but there's time to change my mind yet!!.
Now for another question - can anyone comment on the usefulness of SmartNav, as opposed to getting a "proper" screen version sat nav?
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If you go for a used C5, BCA have an 02 reg HDi(March 2002)
with 398,000 miles on the clock. Going through on Friday -Measham I believe. I get the feeling it could be quite cheap.
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The only way to clock that kind of mileage up would be as a taxi that has been double driven day and night 365 days a year.
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In all honesty, RW, the best service sat nav could give you is to steer you away from a Peugeot or Citroen dealer. If it's your own money then I simply wouldn't buy a new 407 or C5 - you're going to lose far too much of it in depreciation.
If it's your own money and you're going to keep the car at least three years then punch in the coordinates for a Toyota or Honda dealer.
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In all honesty, RW, the best service sat nav could give you is to steer you away from a Peugeot or Citroen dealer. If it's your own money then I simply wouldn't buy a new 407 or C5 - you're going to lose far too much of it in depreciation. If it's your own money and you're going to keep the car at least three years then punch in the coordinates for a Toyota or Honda dealer.
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The difference in purchase price between the cheapest Accord diesel and a C5 2.0 HDI 16v VTR is in the region of £4000, so that has to be taken into account when calculating depreciation. The longer a Citroen is kept, the less the effect of depreciation anyway.
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Out of interest I looked up the warranties in What Car's index: if you do 35k a year bear in mind that Skoda, like SEAT, offers 3 years / unlimited mileage: Honda 90k, Citroen, Peugeot and Toyota only 60k.
I do only 16k a year now: if I still did 30k and it was my own car, my pseudonym on this forum might have been Octavius (or more subtly, Augustus).
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Fords of Winsford had a pre-reg 54 plate new shape C5 2.0 16v HDi VTR with the new 138 brake engine for £11495 with delivery miles on when I was there last week - you can pick C5's up way below list if you shop around.
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That is really wonderful value, at around £6.5k less than list price, even without any extras. If we didn't have one already, I would snap it up.
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Early C5s had teething troubles, but these have all been sorted out.The complexity of the suspension scares off a lot of people, but in actual fact it's pretty bombproof. Citroen say the C5 setup needs no maintenance for 5 years and unlike older Cits with mechanical links that tended to seize, C5 has electronic control with sensors. All Citroens have surprisingly robust 'oily bits' and this is also true of C5.
My one is a 2001 build (one of the first off the line - so potentially one of the least reliable) yet all early glitches were sorted by the dealer and I am now on 43,000 miles with absolutely no reliability issues or faults whatsoever.
The HDIs are brilliant - fast, economical and reliable. Avoid HPIs - they were troublesome.
C5 is wonderfully roomy. The first time you sit in one you feel you're driving a bus!
Remember you can pile as much in the back as you like and the suspension immediately self-levels. Even with massive loads aboard you notice no difference in handling and of course, for towing you won't get better.
The C5 is comfortable, but don't expect it to wallow or roll. Surprisingly, it feels quite firm on the suspension. In fact the lower profile tyres on higher spec models actually make the car on the hard side on poor surfaces. Do take a good test drive.
I'm sure the 407 is a great car and bear in mind that it probably shares the same platform and engines as C5, but suspension characteristics will be quite different.
Good luck.
Graeme
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If you drive 35K a year then I think a Japanese manufacturer will be your best bet. The Accord diesel is very nice but it's a lot more expensive than the (British-built) Avensis (I'm talking about the latest shape here - not the horrible previous model). If it was my money and I was driving those sort of miles I'd want:
(i) safety (what about a diesel Volvo S60 or better a V70 - there are always big discounts available if you look around), the Avensis gor a 5* saftey rating I believe
(ii) reliability - advantage Honda/Toyota
(iii) comfort
(iv) low running costs - Volvo services are pricey - what sort of fuel economy do you get from each car?
Anyway, just my tuppenceworth - good luck!
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