National Oil Change? - bikemade3
Has anyone had experience of these offers for a Diesel. I ask because it's 6k change time on my Mondeo TD ( 97) and for the price they charge it's not worth me getting the overalls on. £15 for Hypergrade or £20 for Semi Synt QXR ( Duckhams ?)BUT are these oils suitable for a Diesel?
National Oil Change? - oilman

Most oils have both petrol and diesel ratings which are labelled by their API or ACEA ratings. The ratings are as follows but at those prices, you'll be getting what you pay for.

API Specifications
  • API = American Petroleum Institute
  • S = Service – Petrol Engine Performance
  • C = Commercial – Diesel Engine Performance
Petrol
  • SG – Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge
  • SH – Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability
  • SJ – Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits
  • SL – Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards
  • SM – Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.
  • SN – Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons and turbochargers, more stringent sludge control, improved fuel economy, enhanced emission control system compatibility, seal compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
Diesel
  • CD – Introduced 1955, international standard for turbo diesel engine oils for many years, uses single cylinder test engine only
  • CE – Introduced 1984, improved control of oil consumption, oil thickening, piston deposits and wear, uses additional multi cylinder test engines
  • CF-4 – Introduced 1990, further improvements in control of oil consumption and piston deposits, uses low emission test engine
  • CF – Introduced 1994, modernised version of CD, reverts to single cylinder low emission test engine. Intended for certain indirect injection engines
  • CF-2 – Introduced 1994, defines effective control of cylinder deposits and ring face scuffing, intended for 2 stroke diesel engines
  • CG-4 – Introduced 1994, development of CF4 giving improved control of piston deposits, wear, oxidation stability and soot entrainment. Uses low sulphur diesel fuel in engine tests
  • CH-4 – Introduced 1998, development of CG4, giving further improvements in control of soot related wear and piston deposits, uses more comprehensive engine test program to include low and high sulphur fuelsSG – Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge.
  • CI-4 – Introduced 2002, developed to meet 2004 emission standards, may be used where EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) systems are fitted and with fuel containing up to 0.5 % sulphur. May be used where API CD, CE, CF4, CG4 and CH4 oils are specified.
  • CJ-4 – Introduced in 2010 exhaust emission standards. These oils are formulated for use in all applications with diesel fuels ranging in sulphur content up to 500 ppm (0.05% by weight). However, the use if these oils with greater than 15 ppm (0.0015% by weight) sulphur fuel may impact exhaust after treatment system durability where particulate filters and other advanced after treatment systems are used. Optimum protection is provided for control of catalyst poisoning, particulate filter blocking, engine wear, piston deposits, low and high temperature stability, soot handling properties, oxidative thickening, foaming, and viscosity loss due to shear.
ACEA Specifications

ACEA (European Automobile Manufacturers Association) have a system of rating oils, which you will find on the container of almost every oil on the market. These are the current specifications, previously oils were given separate petrol and diesel ratings, but from November 2004 onwards, those have been combined (A still refers to Petrol and B to Diesel engines).

  • A1/B1 – Category for Fuel Economy engine oils with especially low High Temperature High Shear viscosity. HTHS of 2.6 to 3.5 mPas applies to XW-20, 2.9 to 3.5 mPas for all others. Corresponds to the old A1 and B1 specifications with some new engine tests.
  • A2/B2 – Basic requirements.Will be replaced by the GLOBAL DLD-1 specification.
  • A3/B3 – Category for high-performance and Fuel Economy engine oils. Exceeds ACEA A1/B1 with regard to Noack (evaporation losses), piston cleanliness and oxidation stability.Extended oil change intervals possible.
  • A3/B4 – Same as A3/B3 but also for direct injection diesel engines.
  • A5/B5 – Category for high-performance engine oils. For TDI engines with Fuel Economy Performance. In addition with lowered HTHS (2.9 to 3.5). Extended oil change intervals possible.
Low SAPS Diesel Engines

An additional category appears in these specifications in which sulphate ash, phosphorous and sulphur content (SAPS) is limited.

  • C1 – Largely based on the ACEA A5/B5. Strict limitation of SAPS content.Low HTHS viscosity of >2.9 mPas
  • C2 – Same as C1 but with somewhat higher SAPS content permissible (as with C3)
  • C3 – Same as C2 except for HTHS > 3.5 and without Fuel Economy performance
  • C4 – Same SAPS content as C3, HTHS viscosity as C1

Cheers Simon

Edited by Xileno on 06/04/2021 at 21:22

National Oil Change? - Chas{P}
Atention Moderators:

Could we make this oil specification information sticky?? This excellent and up to date information should be used to assess oil quality rather it being judged on brand or price.

Maybe that way we could avoid the regular 'what oil should I use' debates.


Just a thought.......
National Oil Change? - Dynamic Dave
Could we make this oil specification information sticky??


Done.

DD.
National Oil Change? - Chas{P}
Thanks DD

Should add some value to the Forum for all to read.
National Oil Change? - Stuartli
If you visit the National website:

www.national.co.uk

and check under Specials, you'll find the oil and filter change is for vans and cars up to 2300cc, but excludes diesels. However, the newspaper ads (also shown on the website) state "Any" car or van up to that capacity...:-(

I've been using the Ormskirk branch for semi-synthetic oil and filter changes for my Bora (£15 using the special voucher in the papers or printed off the website), but this has since gone up to £20. Still cheap.

The work is always meticulously done and takes about half-an-hour.

As the Ormskirk branch is unable to do MOTs due to its layout and facilities, I use the Lyons Lane, Chorley outlet. Again the work is carried out in exemplary fashion, any potential problems which may rear their head in the future are pointed out and the MOT, again by using the voucher, is half-price. Tesco Clubcard points as well...:-)

National informs me by post annually that the MOT is due in the near future and repeats its half-price offer. So far it has cost me about £2.50 in petrol to get to Chorley and back each time - well worth while at a saving of just over £20 for the test.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
National Oil Change? - Stuartli
PS

My Bora is the 1.6 petrol engine version.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
National Oil Change? - wal750
You find that some places do not drop the oil through the sump, instead sucking it out through the filler. This is potentially bad for your engine leaving any sludge or dirt in the sump thus contaminating your new clean oil.

Not sure if this is the case with these but worth bearing in mind.
National Oil Change? - henry k
You find that some places do not drop the oil through
the sump, instead sucking it out through the filler. This is
potentially bad for your engine leaving any sludge or dirt in
the sump thus contaminating your new clean oil.

On one of the USA MB owners forums they took the sump of an MB to see how much sludge was left from convential draining and compared it with a Topsider type unit sucking it out. IIRC there was little difference between the two.
As has been stated here before, there is no sump plug on inboard boat engines and they survive.
One certain advantage is that the sump plug does not get mangled, overtightened or cross threaded which you might discover 6000 miles or more later.
National Oil Change? - henry k
from
www.mbnz.org/forums/
A quote from one forum member

Mercedes engines have been designed to have their oil sucked out through the dipstick tube since the 80s. If you drain the oil by pulling the oil pan drain plug, you definitely will get less oil out than when using the Topsider. I did a test almost 5 years ago to prove it to myself.
National Oil Change? - THe Growler
Whatever method used there will always be some negligible quantities of old oil left. It doesn't matter.
National Oil Change? - Brit_in_Germany

Maybe the sticky should be updated to include the further information from 'oilman'/Simon's blog at opie oils:

Low SAPS Diesel Engines

An additional category appears in these specifications in which sulphate ash, phosphorous and sulphur content (SAPS) is limited.

  • C1 – Largely based on the ACEA A5/B5. Strict limitation of SAPS content.Low HTHS viscosity of >2.9 mPas
  • C2 – Same as C1 but with somewhat higher SAPS content permissible (as with C3)
  • C3 – Same as C2 except for HTHS > 3.5 and without Fuel Economy performance
  • C4 – Same SAPS content as C3, HTHS viscosity as C1
National Oil Change? - Xileno

Done, in both Oilman's post and the Sticky.

Edited by Xileno on 06/04/2021 at 21:23