news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/37...m
I am sure that there's more to the politics and chicanery than we'll ever know, but I'd love to know what ticks in the mind of someone like Bernie to keep them and the organisation they represent driven by apparent avarice, when they could already buy a dozen Banana Republics as holiday homes, and find it impossible to spend what they already have!
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Hurrah. Leave Regent Street for the shoppers & keep the GP out of London - if that means it has to stay out of Britain, well...
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Oh dear. The residents of Northampton will be SO upset.
Note the irony in my posting.
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I think this is really bad news for British engineering.
Many of the British-based teams have Silverstone as their nominated test circuit. If there's not going to be a race there, then the pressure will be on for them to move to Germany.
Coming so soon after Jaguar and Cosworth are put up for sale is a real blow.
And before anyone says the teams will survive, my local team (Tyrell) didn't.
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A great shame. Despite the critisisms levelled at it F1 is the premier motor racing class, and to lose our own GP could effect our future as the home of motorsport engineering.
I am not normally in favour of the government funding sport, but as they are prepared to waste our cash on trying to bring that hideously expensive mind numbing farce called The Olympics here a few quid thrown at Silverstone wouldn't come amiss.
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But it was on the cards. Compare the new circuit in China with Silverstone.
Running a GP on an old airfield that still has nissen huts dotted around and appalling communications even with the new dual A43 just ain't going to cut it in the modern era.
The BRDC are still stuck in the world of tweed jackets and pipes and simply can not compete in terms of money or imagination.
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There is an interesting proposal for an 'alternative' F1 - too many details to remember/post here, but currently on Ceefax p.362
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Mixed emotions here.
I'm sad that there isn't more respect for tradition in the minds of Ecclestone and his empire. Why is it that one man can have so much power; doesn't the sport belong to millions of people world wide?
On the other hand, I'm mindful to say that if his bland recipe of car processions is the future for F1 then he can take it to the bottom of the Pacific for all I care.
Splodgeface
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Bernie is playing games, he did it with Canada & France last year. As for A1 GP its going to be run in the F1 off-season, there's nothing new in the idea as they announced it early this year.
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This will get me banned probably, certainly wont last long, but this is a personal opinion.
Not only is Bernie a parasite, a short parasite, he also also running F1 into the ground.
If you took all the money he has siphoned out of the sport it would allow the lesser teams in F1 to run for several seasons.
The man is a motor racing leach.
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It's not Bernies fault, the BRDC must take (some)of the blame.
Thommo's post sums it up for me.
'The BRDC are still stuck in the world of tweed jackets and pipes and simply can not compete in terms of money or imagination.'
There is no room for sentiment in the ruthless world of F1.
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I am afraid bernie is almost entirely responsible for most of F1s financial problems. Not just silversone
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This will get me banned probably....
Not by me. I happen to agree with you.
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This will get me banned probably, certainly wont last long, but this is a personal opinion. Not only is Bernie a parasite, a short parasite, he also also running F1 into the ground. If you took all the money he has siphoned out of the sport it would allow the lesser teams in F1 to run for several seasons. The man is a motor racing leach.
No, I think you can safely say we are in agreement with you RF.
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"The BRDC are still stuck in the world of tweed jackets and pipes and simply can not compete in terms of money or imagination."
Quite, Bernie's attitude entirely. He was a used car salesman.
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Oh dear. The residents of Northampton will be SO upset. Note the irony in my posting.
Ambivalent, live between Northampton and Towcester. Recognise the huge loss of business for surrounding villages.
But no need for GP on the calendar from January and no need to brief visitors for for alternative routes to/from MK, Oxford etc.
And no weekend of constant chop-chop-chop helicopters.
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Did someone call? I have chop -chop- chop- helicopters every day and it is no worse and probably less noisy than 20 odd F1 cars.
I happen to think that Bernie is a very astute man and he gets facilities like Bahrain and Shanghai why should he keep Silverstone?
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Astute, maybe...there have been plenty of astute but disreputable characters in history...
I think the custodian of F1 should have the sport's rather than their personal interests at heart..He's a powermonger and I think it is a great shame. You can build as many glitzy circuits as you like, but you can't build character, soul, history and tradition nearly so quickly. I dare say F1 is bigger than Silverstone, but, by the same token it is bigger than Bernie Ecclestone...
Sometimes money does sport no favours.
Splodgeface
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Did someone call? I have chop -chop- chop- helicopters every day and it is no worse and probably less noisy than 20 odd F1 cars.
Would not disagree. And having stood on the hills above Silverstone and watched them coming and going like wasps from a nest I have the utmost admiration for both the pilots and the ATC guys.
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Fro what little I've seen the entire Silverstone set-up seems very amateurish compared with most foreign circuits so maybe Bernie's just got fed up with those in charge failing to deliver the goods. His action may focus their minds. Also the owners BRDC? aren't short of a bob or two aren't they so why aren't they shelling out a bit more? It's all a bit like certain extremely wealthy rock/pop stars constantly bemoaning world famine and poverty whilst at the same time counting the ever growing millions in their bank accounts and flitting between their various holiday mansions in private jets.
I've no doubt some residents will be delighted but many will, as has been stated, have to count the cost of lost jobs and the possible we might all regret the loss of a British success story.
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Why couldn't they pay for it this year ? Didn't I hear that all told they made £30m last year (after paying Eccleston et al) ? Where did that go ?
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The BRDC remind me of the comment that a certain rugby (Carling) player made about the governing body ( "a bunch of old...").
I am not a great F1 follower, tuning in religiously to each start and being thoroughly bored in 20 minutes but here are my comments anyway:
Silverstone looks like a relic from WW2. It's a dump. It's certainly not the venue to show off multi million £ cars and technology.
I watched on TV the antics some 2-3 years ago with parking. That reinforces the above comment: it's a dump.
The owners complain the Government does not help them. They run a dump and unless prodded by Ecclestone they appear to do nothing.
They deserve no help.
IF they were serious they would have set it up as a limited company with outside finance and promoted it properly. Their inaction says it all.
Will I go there? No. Why? Becuase it's 100 miles + and the parking is awful.
Speaking again of rugby, they tirned professional and England eventually got it right. The BRDC hope to run as a bunch of amateurs and get help.
They deserve all the financial assistance they have got:-)
madf
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And I agree with that too. The BRDC and Bernie deserve each other. Now WRC, GT and Touring Cars, those are real motorsports.
Oh, and SuperGP. That really is spectator sport!
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Ok Now my Anger at certain person is under check I can add some sensible input into this discussion.
As a F1 fan, and someone who has been to the last 3 of 4 British Grands Prix and several Grands Prix in Europe over the years. I think I can speak with some personal experience.
F1 is driven by advertising, and hence TV
TV viewers do not go to tracks and care little about facilities at the track. As long as there is no adverse publicity then the TV audience probabaly dont even think about it.
To them, the actual track layout, excitement and good racing (yes that includes crashes and incidents) and to a lesser extent a full stand to provide colourful backdrop are all that matters. Silverstone delivers this in spades consistently. As does Spa, Monaco, Monza etc.
Do you really think people get excited by the Hungaro Ring and silly tracks like that? No. I bet that gets the lowest audience, yet will still get a GP this year over Silverstone.
Ok yes Silverstone is a dump, but it has character, a certain feeling, you feel closer to the rawness of it in some way. Hence its always sold out.
F1 is in serious trouble. It is too expensive, and there will be conflict between the car manufacturers/teams and bernie.
The problem lies in the fact that tobacco advertising is easy money, but needs to go in front of the growing tobacco consuming audience, The mid/far east & china where they smoke like chimneys and allow advertising.
The teams on the other hand are increasingly reliant on the car mannufacturers who cant afford to be related to tobacco advertising in the West. They want to sell cars. So they want to race in their best most profitable markets. (thats why Jaguar pulled out, the states dont watch F1).
Predictions from all this? ITV's audience for F1 will plummet next year in protest. Expect a major confrontation between Formula One Administration Ltd (Bernies company) and the team principals (FOCA), with the FIA stuck in the middle. F1 is about to fracture. Badly.
Me? I am off to Le Mans, A day at Rockingham for euro champs, and I shall NOT be watching F1 on ITV in protest. ALL SEASON 2005!
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Oh yes, and just as the door was closing on the British GP, the chances of staging the olympic games slipped out.
Cant stage a GP, what chance olympics.
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Hear Hear RF
Splodgeface
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World's dullest sport not to be held in GB. World keeps turning...
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I find this cigarette advertising ban a farce. I know the moral and social issues, but why does banning advertising it the EU alone help anyone when they will televise the races from the rest of the world in the EU with the advertising in place??
May get shot down in flames here but the reason Bernie is so in control of F1 is because he enabled it to survive from the days when teams would choose which races they could be bothered to turn up at, not agree on anything (nothing too new there!). He has made a lot of money for a lot of people, himself included and also the teams themselves.
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Fair comment, however it's plain that F1 is in trouble on several counts:
1. As a spectator sport - it's getting very predictable and audience figures are dropping.
2. Reduced audience means reduced advertising which equates to less money in the pot. Teams don't cost any less to run so smaller teams have had to drop out.
3. Ecclestone and co. have been juggling with the format for years, yet it doesn't look any different (IMHO).
Fresh blood is required - you've only got to look at the BTCC which is genuine motor racing and good to watch.
Mr. Ecclestone's time has passed and he should recognise the fact.
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We could stage a fantastic GP it's just who pays that's the problem and HMG isn't gonna bale out Silverstone. So far as the Olympics good HMG and Our good friend Red Ken will be stumping op our money.
Take the point about the TV audience not caring about the antiquated facilities on site but I bet all the high flying executives surrounding the sport who attend do. I can't inspire much confidence can it.
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The DT seem confident that it's still going ahead - look at the article on the new Honda BAR engine and, at the foot of the page, there's a link inviting you to book your grandstand seat for the 2005 British Grand Prix.
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Couple of point here:
F1 is supposedly about racing. Silverstone is one of the better circuits on the calendar for this. It is technical but also affords passing opportunities. China aside, most of these new facilities haven't exactly set the racing world alight. They may look nice but lead to processions more often than not.
The outside finance thing has been tried and failed. If you recall, Interpublic got the rights to the British GP with an intention of staging it at Brands. They then realised there was no way this was going to happen to struck a deal to run Silverstone, being in charge of doing it up etc. Very little happened and they ended up backing out at great cost to them (and great profit to Bernie) when they realised it wasn't going to work out for them.
Pretty much every other race gets government backing as most other governments realise there is a lot to be gained from such a popular sport. It's even more important in this country as most of the teams are based here. If we lost the GP then there would be more economic pressure for them to move to continental Europe. Cheaper travel costs for one.
The UK economy has a lot to lose potentially from the loss of the GP, but also it should be easier to finance the running of a race. There is plenty of money in F1, unfortunately most of it goes straight in to Bernie's back pocket. I believe he pockets about 50% of the TV money for instance - this is one sticking point with the teams who are aiming for something like 80% shared between them.
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BRDC knows Silverstone needs to be upgraded.
BTDC has 800 acres of prime land.
BRDC has not got planning permission to develop land becuase it takes years and they only applied 2 or so years ago.
Racing circuit? No.
Professional Mangement? No.
Runa s an amateurish operation.
F1 has been dricen by money for years. If you want to stay in, you must adapt.
BRDC have not adapted.
IF HMG gave £3 million to a private club with 800 acres of land they have done nothing with (and plead poverty) then it would be 100% financial irresponsibility.
Sorry but money talks as do actions. BRDC have done nowt. Can expect nowt.
madf
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BRDC has not got planning permission to develop land becuase it takes years and they only applied 2 or so years ago.
As I've pointed out, the issue has been clouded by the involvement of Interpublic who effectively took over the running of Silverstone as well as the GP then backed out.
IF HMG gave £3 million to a private club with 800 acres of land they have done nothing with (and plead poverty) then it would be 100% financial irresponsibility.
Where has this 800 acres thing come from anyway? And 800 acres for what? How many people are going to want to live near a busy racing circuit? How much trouble could be caused by new and near residents trying to get noise abatement orders on the circuit?
Also, don't forget that the BRDC don't just own and run Silverstone for the GP. They finance motorsport right from the grass roots and it would be irresponsible of them to lay down and accept Bernie's demands at the cost of developing future talent. It's interesting also that Bernie has apparently urged the government not to give them any money - something is definitely going on here but it's hard to understand what. One theory is that he is simply trying to bankrupt them so he can get the circuit cheap. It has been pointed out that he has *already been paid* for the GP up to (I believe) 2007 as part of the deal for Interpublic to back out, so he can't need the money.
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Sorry mods. can't find original thread. {I did. DD}
Just announced that Silverstone has failed in its bid for inclusion in the 2005 GP calendar.
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There are apparantly a number of European Grands Prix under threat, France and Italy too I believe. If F1 persists in what seems to be it's bid to move the whole shebang to the far east, it will eventually shoot itself in the foot.
I can only take so many featureless desert circuits, and I fear that if we loose too many of the traditional tracks with their long histories, interest will wane.
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British GP is the only one of interest to me. After all, Silverstone is the only track that I've been round.
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Thought you took the Porsche around Castle Combe?
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Yes, but last year I won a free afternoon at Silverstone.
Three laps on the southern half of the circuit in each of an Audi S3, 911 Coupe (993), Ferrari 355 & Dodge Viper. Then a passenger lap with an instructor in a Proton Satria GTi.
Guess which laps were fastest!
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Doesn't seem more than 5 minutes ago that a certain ex-F1 driver and a high powered businesswoman were claiming it'd virtually all been sorted out. Couldn't have been a publicity stunt could it?
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I see the delightful Bernie is planning to sue Jackie Stewart over remarks he made about him in a BBC interview.
Should enhance his popularity no end!
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I wonder if the BRDC plan to sue Bernie for his remarks made about them? A gentlemans club with no gentlemen, IIRC?
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I suspect the legal definition of a gentleman might exclude racing drivers as they work for a living (or did). I believe "gentlemen " did not:-)
madf
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It's on, it's off - getting almost as tedious as some of the races!
Just read that 9 out of 10 of the teams have voted to reduce their testing in order to include the British GP.
Guess who, with their own private testing facilities, hasn't agreed.
Two eyewitness accounts of an accident can make you wonder about history.
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Just heard the news that Silverstone have managed to secure a deal to host the Brit GP for the next 5 years.
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I wonder what it was that someone finally gave way on.
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No idea Mark. Just had a quick flick around the news sites, and they've not been updated yet. However the local radio station just announced it.
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Mmm. I've just got this feeling that there was something not very obvious underneath it all which someone wanted, or didn't want.
And I bet it wasn't a factor which was ever reported either.
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As far as I understand it - Silverstone was being used as a controlling pawn in a big chess match. Bernie, rapidly loosing control to the new breakaway consortium (made worse after the recent court case he lost) has wanted to switch and grab control elswhere. The circuits.
Silverstone (ie BRDC) wanted a short deal (2/3 years) to enable them to hook up with the breakaway series. Bernie wanted a longer deal (7 years) to either stop them or have some skin in the game.
The deal is to 2009, so given that the breakaway series probably cant kick off till start of 2007 series a half way mark seems to have been reached.
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I see the government are revelling in the glory despite having stated that it wasn't their problem and that they would have nothing to do with it.
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As I said earlier, It would'nt look too good for an olympic bid if we couldnt even organise a GP!
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As I said earlier, It would'nt look too good for an olympic bid if we couldnt even organise a GP!
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Having no British GP would be a small price to pay for not being stuck with the Olympic It's A Knockout.
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Much as I like and admire Jackie Stewart, I thought that his claim that the Silverstone F1 race was the UK's biggest sporting event of the year was made without very much thought.
There's the London Marathon just for a start....:-)
As for the Olympics, forget it. Even more so that New Labour has suddenly decided to back the bid.
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What JS was probably referring to was that the British GP drew the largest crowd of paying spectators for any sporting event that year, whereas the marathon doesn't count as it is a freebe.
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and possibly the largest global tv audience (wimbledon* might knock it close tho)
*the tennis, not the dogs/speedway/stock cars.
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Could be, but he stated definitively that it was the largest British sporting event....:-)
Paying customers or not in his case, there's around a million lining London streets to watch the Marathon.
A similarity between the Marathon and the Grand Prix is that the procession is going the same way in both cases and, more often than not, Schumacher or Radcliffe wins their event....:-)
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