Hi all,
I just sold off Mrs Oz's H-reg Peugeot 205 XL to a colleague, but was surprised that I couldn't finf the current MOT certificate. Probably mis-filed. The new owner believes it is essential for him to have. However:
(1), as the car was taxed up till 28/2/05, this is clear evidence that the MOT certificate existed when the car was taxed (in 3/04).
(2) what is the law about on-demand production of an MOT certificate? (which only had to be valid at the time of taxing and in theory could expire shortly thereafter, so of what use would it be then in signifying roadworthiness, etc.?)
Equally surprisingly, the MOT garage (who should be in a position to issue a duplicate), haven't been able to find it on their records so far. And the local Vehicle Inspectorate tell me they can't issue a duplicate, because they have no records.
So, must I face the prospect of financing a new MOT test?
Oz (as was)
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If the issueing garage can't find the MOT in their records, and you can't find the certificate, then you'll have to pay for a new MOT
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I read often, only post occasionally
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I don't know if things have changed over the last few years, but when I was Mot testing the details of every pass cert. was entered into what used to be known as the register. Customers requesting a duplicate cert. were asked to give an approximate date of cert. issue and the register was checked for the relevant car registration number, maybe a month either side of the approximate date of Mot. This could run into thousands for a busy Mot station. If the correct details were found, the recorded serial number of the Mot cert. led back to the original certificate book copy. (stored for a number of years).
The main weakness of the system was customers claiming that their Mot was done 'only a couple of months ago'. When a registry search revealed nothing, it was usually 'maybe six months ago'. As often as not, an hours work searching the registry revealed that the Mot had expired anyway.
The VI won't be interested unless the testing station has closed.
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(1) Only indicates the MOT was valid 6 months ago.
(2) This offence can be dealt with only by the Magistrates Court. The maximum penalty for private vehicles is a fine of up to £1000. The Court has no power to disqualify for this offence or put penalty points on a driver?s licence. The fine will often reflect the condition of the vehicle.
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A duplicate will probably set you back £20. Not much cheaper than the original.
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If I were you,
Go back to the testing station and give them a more accurate time and date. There may be a blue DoT sticker in the car with the date for the next MOT on it. This will be a good guide if necessary.
If this is a no hoper - go back to the inspectorate and explain the situation.
Thirdly, if you sold the car as having the MOT cert and cannot obtain one, then I'm afraid it's down to you to provide one. If that means paying for a retest and any work, then I'm sorry mate - you'll need to dig deep.
H
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If you have sold it Oz then it is not your problem anymore but that of the new owner to produce a current test certificate if required.
However your concern is commendable as it appears you want everything to be right. You could fall foul of the law by selling the vehicle in an unroadworthy condition, but that doesn't seem to be the case in this case. Brakes, steering, tyres OK?
As stated there is an obligation on the garage that issued to keep a Test Register and to keep it for IIRC 2-3 years. The fact that VOSA cannot help surprises me as I would have thought on this fact they would have been down like a ton of bricks on the Garage. I am aware that they are in mid steam in bringing on line the new MOT Computor which when fully up and running should have solved the problem but there again GIGO.
Using without an MOT or failing to produce attracts a level of fine 1000 notes max and YES YOU CAN BE DISQUALIFIED. Not under the Road Traffic Act but Section 146 Power of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000
You have notified change of ownership to DVLA ?
DVD
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Maximum replacement cost for a certificate is £10 (VOSA website).
For such a small amount of money it could be the garage didn't look properly.
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Hugo is right. MoT stations have been issuing square blue stickers for the windscreen for about 15 months now. Of course it is up to the owner to apply them, but if there isn't one it may mean the last cert. has expired anyway.
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Hugo is right. MoT stations have been issuing square blue stickers for the windscreen for about 15 months now.
For last years MOT I was given one of those stickers. However this year I never got given one for either the works van or my motorbike. I thought maybe they'd done away with them.
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So did they for giving me an MOT certificate then ;o)
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Nah - that was in return for the "special extra fee" they mentioned - the one that wasn't on the paperwork as it had to be cash only!
;-)
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Did you sell it as having an MOT ? If so, then why are you surprised that the new owner wants the certificate ? So would I.
Will it pass through an MOT test ? In which case why faff around ? The amount of time its taking you and the inevitable cost of a duplicate certificate would surely make it worthwhile simply to get it re-tested ?
Or will it fail an MOT ? In which case that's a whole 'nother bag of worms.
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Never sell cars to friends, colleagues or relatives!
If I, a stranger, had been buying your car I'd have wanted the MOT at the moment I parted with my money. Presumably the colleague trusted you to produce it in due course. This could become embarrassing, eg in the circumstances Mark outlines.
Let's just hope it passes! (or you quickly find the old certificate)
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DVD, If Oz could prove that the Mot cert in question hadn't been included in the register details, VOSA would indeed be down like a ton of bricks. I've seen them in action and they leave no full stop or comma unturned. A workmate of mine accidentally dated a cert for the following day (eg 20th instead of the actual date 19th). The customer lost a day, but nobody noticed until months later VOSA picked up the error on one of their routine paperwork checks. the tester was immediately stopped from doing Mot's and a VOSA man spent two days checking every Cert issued against the register, VT30's and old Mot books. The tester was suspended for three weeks, and then had to attend another testers course.
They usually only get involved with duplicate certs. when the station has changed ownership, or closed. In these cases all the old paperwork is returned to VOSA.
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Blimey! I wonder what they would have said about the garage where I had my car tested a couple of months ago. I went to collect car and MOT only to find they had given the new certificate to another driver. They would not give me a new certificate for a few days, in case the other bloke brought my certificate in. Eventually they issued me with a duplicate certificate.
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Thanks for above comments. Up till now I had the luxury of a company car so didn't have to confront the MOT question. As I now understand it a valid MOT certificate is required at all times.
For me the dichotomy which gave rise to my initial confusion is that the MOT certificate in no way certifies or guarantees the total roadworthiness of the car at any given time! (And it could be argued that this includes the moment of test. Unless anyone disagrees).
Oz (as was)
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... the MOT certificate in no way certifies or guarantees the total roadworthiness of the car at any given time! ...
so by this reasoning, the mot is a worthless exercise exept for the fact that it creates some revenue for gordy-brown, and also keeps some mechanics employed, and makes a little extra earners for the bent-garage. or am i being cynical ?
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or am i being cynical ?
You are being cynical :)
The MoT screens for particular dangers. It may not be perfect, but it is better than nothing, and it keeps some really dangerous vehicles off the road.
As a child in Ireland, where there was no MoT-type test until very recently, I remember some v dodgy cars. One driver explained to me that since his nearside headlamp bulb had blown several years previuusly, but since he had survived fine without it he wasn't going to replace it, and didn't really see any need to try to make the wipers work again. Thank goodness the MoT system catches that sort of thing.
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>>The MoT screens for particular dangers. It may not be perfect,
>>but it is better than nothing, and it keeps some really
>>dangerous vehicles off the road.
30+ years ago I spent 12 months in a country where (at the time, don't know about now), cars were only repaired (and never serviced) when something broke or fell off. Wrecks were abandoned in the middle of the road until something else collided with them. One particular road had an infamous fatality-per-mile record in the Guinness Book or Records (and no I'm not talking about Oz).
So while I have a certain cynicism about the MOT, I'm prepared to agree that it's better than nothing.
Oz (as was)
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>>the mot is a worthless exercise exept for the fact that it creates some revenue for gordy-brown
or am i being cynical
I wont dispute your comment.Mot is as far as I`m aware only legal on day of test. rightly so. it may last a year but wont account for extreme probs that occur in that 12 months.to refer to original point. if MOT lost and buyer told car has MOT. ie cannot be found. is sellers responsability to provide MOT
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Was mech1
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No Wheels has got it about right. If you had your car seviced every week it wouldn't stop tyres and brakes from wearing out, or bulbs from blowing, or corrosion from worsening. Why should an MOT stop these things from happening ? What the test does ensure is that at the time of testing, the car was safe to use.
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Here's a good tip for anyone wanting a much longer than usual Mot. Try a Welsh testing station. The last Wesh cert. I saw was the same width as an English one but about 2 feet long. Printed in Welsh and English. (Some years ago now).
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Here's a good tip for anyone wanting a much longer than usual Mot. Try a Welsh testing station. The last Wesh cert. I saw was the same width as an English one but about 2 feet long. Printed in Welsh and English. (Some years ago now).
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Not true now. They have discovered that if you make the writing smaller they can fit it all in on an ordinary one.
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