Carl_a
the gen2
what problems are their with it?
catch fire alot?
the cerato needs to be 2.5k less to have any chance of selling in decent numbers and needs the diesel version asap.
the plastics are cheap on most korean/malaysian cars - but if their well screwed together (ie, hyundai) not to fussed.
|
The front windows drop into the door because an arm inside bends and some small trim problems. Here are one set of pics from a fire :
www.suaramalaysia.com/archives/2004/08/gen2_on_fir...l
The problem KIA have with the Cerato is that the new rio is coming out soon (looks very much like a Renault at the front) so they have to make the Cerato more expensive. The cerato is actually the same chassis as Elantra so its a larger car than it appears.
|
|
I don't see how manufacturers like Kia can even think about introducing a budget hatchback to UK market with prices starting at £9,750 for base model. Come on, Nissan Almera 1.5 S is two grand cheaper, that's OTR and with much better trim and equipment in most basic form. Not to mention reliability record.
|
You are comparing a broker price with an RRP, the Almera 5dr S is £1k more expensive if you look at RRP.
What equipment does an Almera have that a Cerato doesn't ?
|
Carl_a - i have had a long interestin the hyundai/kia group nad have owned alarge selection of models.
I am quite found of the manufacturer (excpet the gear boxes and paint work).
However, the cerato is very low budget design for kia, with many parts plucked of the parts list.
Im sure it will be better than the shuma II. But it doesnt have the safety, performance, 'spec to high to say no', looks, or space.
plus what dissapoints me - no plans for a estate version - this in diesel format is a potentially big seller.
|
|
The engine in the Proton Gen2 is Protons own engine, whereas in the past theyve used donated Mitsubishi powerplants. Therefore, expect teething trouble!
|
|
|
|
I agree that its over priced and lower quality plastics than the leaders but don't see it as the parts bin special that you refer to. I'm waiting for HJ's review as he's normally spot on with regards to Japanese and Korean cars.
|
|
|
|
You are comparing a broker price with an RRP, the Almera 5dr S is £1k more expensive if you look at RRP.
What equipment does an Almera have that a Cerato doesn't ?
At least Nissans are sold via brokers. How many brokers do you know that import Kia's from manufacturer or other sources outside UK?
Descriptions of trim levels vary from one website to another, so we'll have to wait for Kia to actually start selling them to find out what UK spec has or hasn't, but, just as an example, on all the pictures of interior I could find (including official brochures) there is no passenger airbag.
But, let's say both cars happened to have exactly the same trim, would you choose Kia Cerato over Almera?
|
At least Nissans are sold via brokers. How many brokers do you know that import Kia's from manufacturer or other sources outside UK?
Most of the brokers will give you a quote on a KIA and motor point had some imports a few weeks ago.
Descriptions of trim levels vary from one website to another, so we'll have to wait for Kia to actually start selling them to find out what UK spec has or hasn't, but, just as an example, on all the pictures of interior I could find (including official brochures) there is no passenger airbag.
How can you tell specs from a picture ?
Check the Kia UK web site, all versions come with Driver, Passenger,Side and Curtain airbags, also ABS & air-con (even the base model gets all that)
But, let's say both cars happened to have exactly the same trim, would you choose Kia Cerato over Almera?
Well they don't have the same trim do they, the Kia has a better spec and performance, I wouldn't buy either but the KIA would be my choice.
|
Well they don't have the same trim do they, the Kia has a better spec and performance, I wouldn't buy either but the KIA would be my choice.
Hmm.. I though there were no specs on official UK site, but after short investigation I see that clicking "Cerato" from the menu tries to open external popup with flash and thus is blocked by IE 6.0 default popup filter under XP. Good thinking Kia.
Basic Cerato still doesn't have better spec than basic Almera and difference in performance is only by the margin of 1.6 vs 1.5 engine.
For me it's very simple. If I go to mall to buy some shoes and see Marten's winter boots for ££ and right next to it similar shoe "Made in Korea" with Shoe Express label for the same price it's really no brainer for me.
You can not gain niche market unless it’s built on something. Either reliability (like for example Isuzu) or value for buck (like.. well, even Nissan). Kia has no brand. No street credit. No history. No buzz. No large protagonist (like Lotus is for Proton). There is absolutely nothing "out there" for Kia. It's somewhere at the very bottom of motor industry food chain with the likes of Daewoo or Tata. The kind of name you refer to as "that Korean thing, whaddayacallit..emmm". It's not even the kind of brand you think about when you just need something to get you from A to B. In fact unless you proverbally stumble and fall and knock yourself unconcious on one of their models you won't even know they were still in business. The reason why people buy such things is exactly the same as why people buy Pacific microwaves in Asda and Bush TV sets in Argos. No, it's not yankee theme. Price. Price is the only reason. I don't think there is a single person out there that would pick Bush over Sanyo, Pacific over Bosh or Kia over any other branded car with similar spec if they couldn't have it cheaper, if it couldn't be "the next best thing" at better price. I thought foreign motoring industry in Europe figured it out by now. You can't sell Tata as Rover if it's more expensive than Fiat Panda. People won’t buy Nubira only because you change Daewoo badge to Chevy. And if manufacturer can't understand why something called Kia or Perodua or other SsangYong should be cheaper than what's already on the market then perhaps it's time to try luck in kettle and kitchen mixers market.
I'm eagerly waiting to see "brokers" prices on the Kia.
|
totally agree with your rant about brand - kia as a badge is a nothing.
what i dont understand about companies like proton and hyundai -
when they first released cars (hyundai's case the accent mark 1) - they sold quite a few numbers purely because they offered excellent value.
it got the cars on the streets, best form of advertising.
but they change their strategy and become just like all the rest.
your not telling me the hyundai accent mark 3 costs more than £1500 to make - its a very dated platform.
so why not put it out at £5,500
or
offer a diesel one for 6k - would sell in bucket loads.
|
totally agree with your rant about brand - kia as a badge is a nothing. what i dont understand about companies like proton and hyundai - when they first released cars (hyundai's case the accent mark 1) - they sold quite a few numbers purely because they offered excellent value. it got the cars on the streets, best form of advertising. but they change their strategy and become just like all the rest. your not telling me the hyundai accent mark 3 costs more than £1500 to make - its a very dated platform.
In the USA Hyundai still sell in huge numbers because they offer excellent value and throw in a 5 year 'Bumper to Bumper' warranty with 10 years on the drive train.
Fairly basic motoring with the Accent and Elantra, but because they are so popular many trade up to the bigger models
|
Yes the Almera is cheap from a broker (my local dealer is much more expensive) but for a good reason, they don't sell very well. Kia already have a budget car in this sector called the Rio and that even cheaper than the Almera.
Coming on this forum and anouncing that the Almera is £2k cheaper and has a better spec than a Cerato isn't true is it, because you didn't know the spec (as you have admitted), so how could you say that ?
|
Coming on this forum and anouncing that the Almera is £2k cheaper and has a better spec than a Cerato isn't true is it, because you didn't know the spec (as you have admitted), so how could you say that ?
I'm sorry, but what part of what I said is not true? Spec didn't look better on brochures available, didn't look on better on motoring websites announcing the car and now that you presented me with specs on official UK website it still isn't better. Not enough to justify £2000 difference in price, not to justify even the same OTR price as Almera 1.5S. Yes, having courtain airbags gives it edge of advantage but overall Cerato still has less addons and treats in GS trim than its five year old Nissan counterpart.
We've just finished laughing at Rover's floppy introduction of budget Indica at stupid prices, I think £9750 call for RRP on Cerato is not only insane, it's just plain rude. Press, at best, is mildly content with Cerato, it certainly is not being described as bargain of the year, but somehow you want me to believe I should actually pay for it as much (or even more) as for Almera, perhaps equally dull and uninspiring, but after all, one of the most reliable and best equipped sub £10,000 cars that was ever sold on this continent?
|
You said "Nissan Almera 1.5 S is two grand cheaper, that's OTR and with much better trim and equipment in most basic form"
You then said that you didn't know the spec and looked at pictures, you are now saying it has "less addons and treats" but can't actually name any extra equipment that the Almera has.
The Almera 5dr RRP is 1k more than the Cerato for less spec and worse performance and old design so isn't its RRP insane ?
As for the City Rover, I will just point you in the direction of autocars group test last week.
|
>> how could you say that ?
...I'm sorry, but what part of what I said is not true?
...You said ...
I think it's a good thing that this discussion is taking place online, rather than face-to-face!
|
Your right NoWheels, in fact i'm giving up on this one.
V0n, think of me as ignorant of your understanding.
|
You then said that you didn't know the spec and looked at pictures, you are now saying it has "less addons and treats" but can't actually name any extra equipment that the Almera has.
I did not say such thing, you just choose your interpretation even with text being right in front of you. I said "descriptions of trim levels vary from one website to another, so we'll have to wait for Kia to actually start selling them to find out what UK spec has or hasn't". I also mentioned that in all previews including online motoring press outlets, like 4car or whatcar, all pictures featured had no passenger airbags, which indicated the minimum trim might be even lower than originally suggested.
Now - torturing readers with small details on your request:
Basic Almera - 1.5S/Pulse and Cerato 1.6 GS both feature power steering, ABS/EB, driver and passenger airbags, air-con, remote central locking, CD stereo, split/fold rear seats, drivers seat with adjustable hight, electric front windows and mirrors, front-seat head restraints that move forward on impact, immobiliser, child proof locks and 3-point ELR seatbelts front and rear.
Cerato GS offers side airbags (standard in Almera Pulse as part of free safety pack, Pulse is priced exactly as 1.5S, more teenage fit at cost of materials and fabrics)
Almera 1.5S and Pulse have electric headlamps, automatic interior lights system, features almost twice more cubby and storage spaces, six speaker audio system (instead of GS's 4) which adjusts volume with revs and unlike GS actually has roof aerial, anti hijack features to central locking, one touch auto up/down drivers window, rear windows child locks, additional 3 point rear centre seatbelt and thanks to all the safety features insurance group 5 instead of Kia's 7.
Pulse additionaly comes with rear spoiler, fog lights and side skirts (at no extra cost) should you have teenage son.
I can't confirm presence of bits like intermittent front and rear wipers, cargo nets, armrests, three rear headrests ect. in Cerato GS so I won't mention them.
|
Clearly missed white flags while typing my last reply.
K.. let's give up on this thing. I can't believe I even wasted my time arguing about an overpriced Korean car without any future. The things we do on the net...
|
its quite obvious - the cerato wont sell in bigger numbers than 4000 a year in the uk.
it will take a heavy depreciation, second hand buyers will avoid them due to parts high cost.
its not going to be as refined as others, and certainly no where near as safe.
it wil probably be more reliable, and has a greater warranty.
i just cant see it being worth more than 3k after 3 years and 60,000 miles.
its the same as the rio - ao the 51 plate lx model 1.3 - they have been going for £1500 at auction with around 50,000 miles.
good car - will go on for another 70,ooo miles trouble free if correctly serviced - but who wants to drive around in a unsafe, unresponsive, piece of grey mish mash, which you cant buy parts for.
I have a y plate hyundai accent - it will run forever until the rust finishes it of, but i am going to struggle to get rid of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
