Toyota gearboxes are rubbish !

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Wed 12 May 2004 16:48
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - arnold2
From 3 different gearbox specialists: Toyota manual gearboxes are not reliable, the bearings in particular are prone to early failure, as well as 5th gears!

To make matters worse, the parts prices are very expensive; this apparently even applies to 'UK' build Toyota's, as these parts are all Japanese imports. Even VW's have cheaper gearbox bits - a bit of a surprise !

What is surprising is that this isn't well known outside of the trade - Toyota's score well in various customer surveys.

Anyone here any experiences ?

Older Toyota's don't seem to suffer this issue, apparently ....
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Wed 12 May 2004 16:51
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Mapmaker
G reg Hilux died at 200k just before Christmas, owing to gear box failure.

Went very very noisy in 3rd & 4th. 2 months and about 3k miles later, it died.
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Wed 12 May 2004 17:09
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Altea Ego
Thats utterly appaling. Only 200k miles from a gearbox? shocking, they must all be rubbish.
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Wed 12 May 2004 17:30
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Alfafan {P}
Speak as you fine. My 88 Celica was still going strong at 185k miles (I crashed it)and the 92 Celica has 113k miles with no hint of problems (now crosses fingers and touches wood).
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Wed 12 May 2004 17:53
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Armitage Shanks{P}
I had an Avensis as a hire car in Germany on Saturday, 1.8 estate with about 10K miles on it. The gearbox was dire! It was hard to get into a gear and when you managed it you didn't know which it was until it stalled (AHAHA - must have been 3rd). I got more used to it as the day went on but it wasn't good by any standard
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Wed 12 May 2004 18:07
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - arnold2
My 2001 Corolla's gearbox bearings started to go at 65K miles - just outside the warranty - and Toyota UK didn't want to know;

The problem, Alfafan, is on the more recent Toyota's, so your older Celica's will probably be fine !

The recovery man who collected my totally immovable Corolla told me he had picked up 5 such cars last year all with the same fault - totally locked 'box as a result of catastrophic bearing failure .....
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Wed 12 May 2004 18:03
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - BazzaBear {P}
Not that I'm arguing, as I've never heard of a Toyota gearbox problem, but I think both your examples would class as old, and therefore not be included in the accusation of weakness, as stated above.
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Wed 12 May 2004 18:35
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Mapmaker
You're absolutely right, RF. Dreadful! Even its ability to soldier on for only a couple of months after suffering terrible failure...
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Wed 12 May 2004 18:05
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - SteveH42
Must admit 1st on the Yaris is sometimes difficult to engage since they rebuilt the box to cure the whine in 5th gear. (Known fault on the Yaris) I guess I should have got them to sort it at the time but it's out of warranty now... It does go in, just can be reluctant when cold.
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Wed 12 May 2004 18:08
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - arnold2
oh, this fault is on the latest Corolla's, too .....
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Wed 12 May 2004 18:29
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Vansboy
& beware the recovery service that comes to rescue you, should your Toyotas box fail away from home. If they're using Mitsubushi(a Volvo in disguise) Canter trucks, that is.

Seems the gearbox is a weak point & failures here are not uncommon.

Guess that Toyota/Mitsubishi have links to the same suppliers, like everyone else these days!

VB
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Wed 12 May 2004 19:34
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Civic8
I was under the impression Avensis boxs were made here.GB.from someone that knows
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Wed 12 May 2004 21:05
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Mondaywoe
Wow! Thank goodness I've got a nice reliable Citroen.........

;-)

Graeme
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Wed 12 May 2004 21:30
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Ben79
Graeme, have you the newer gearbox on your C5 with the reverse next to 1st?
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Wed 12 May 2004 21:38
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Big John
A friend of mine had a gearbox failure on a 1.8 w reg Avensis (30K). Started as a crunch between 5th & 4th, after a couple of months the gearbox totally failed punching a hole in its casing!
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Wed 12 May 2004 23:54
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Aprilia
Gearboxes are quite heavy and complicated things. Manufacturers are trying to make them lighter, cheaper and with a lower oil capacity. Looks like Toyota have pushed things a little too far.

I don't know what oil is recommended for these 'boxes, but if I had one I might be tempted to go for a fully-synthetic GL-5 multigrade oil (provided its compatible). Something like Elf Synthese.
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Wed 12 May 2004 23:58
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Ford Dagenham
Hi

Citroens are rubbish according to brassed off britain
--
(iam not a mechanic)

Martin Winters
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Thu 13 May 2004 00:19
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Civic8
Citroens are no more problematic than a lot of other cars.they all have faults.I dont think any comparisons can be made as not all make a complaint about the car they have.Bearing in mind not many cars are all made by same co.
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Thu 13 May 2004 00:35
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - runboy
Sort of related-I have never crunched gear changes so many times in my new Corolla 1.6 than any other car in my 13 years of driving. I am sure it must be me, but it is so frustrating that it happens.

Anyone else have this problem or do I have to adapt even more to the car (that I have driven for 13,000 miles already so I should be used to it!).
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Mon 15 Jan 2007 15:25
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - oldgit
Wow! Thank goodness I've got a nice reliable Citroen.........
;-)
Graeme


And I have got a lovely reliable VW Golf MK V with the slickest, smoothest gearbox I've ever experienced. Mind you don't know what it will be like when the car's reached 20k miles!! Yes Twenty Thousand miles!
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Thu 13 May 2004 10:09
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - arnold2
I was under the impression Avensis boxs were made here.GB


From the specialists I spoke to, all the bits are imported from Japan, and assembled in the UK - that's why the Corolla gearbox cost as much to re-build as a premium German car - the parts all have to be shipped by slow boat, as opposed to Lorry through Europe !
I don't know what oil is recommended for these 'boxes, but
if I had one I might be tempted to go for
a fully-synthetic GL-5 multigrade oil (provided its
compatible). Something like Elf
Synthese.


Aprilia - my box is due to have the oil changed under its warranty at 1000k after the re-build - after that, when would you recommend changing the oil to that fully-synthetic ? Will a better oil help the life of the 'box ?
I have never crunched gear changes so many times
in my new Corolla 1.6 than any other car in my
13 years of driving.

You are not alone - my gearbox is VERY tricky to use if you're not to crunch it - I think the problem lies in what SEEMS to be an easy slick chenge, but with no proper 'click' when you're really in gear - my New Beetle has a really nice, positive but slower, change.
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Thu 13 May 2004 10:50
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Aprilia
From the specialists I spoke to, all the bits are imported
from Japan, and assembled in the UK - that's why the
Corolla gearbox cost as much to re-build as a premium German
car - the parts all have to be shipped by slow
boat, as opposed to Lorry through Europe !


Japanese car parts are very cheap in Japan and the cost of shipping (even air freight) is quite low. It is actually cheaper to buy a part remotely in Japan and have it flown over (3 days) than order it through your local dealer! You'll probably save at least 25% (and that is including all the duties etc.).
The high cost of parts is simply due to the mark-up put on them by dealers in this country.

Aprilia - my box is due to have the oil changed
under its warranty at 1000k after the re-build - after that,
when would you recommend changing the oil to that fully-synthetic ?
Will a better oil help the life of the 'box ?


Yes, it should do. What is most critical is the behaviour of the fluid when its between the synchro cones (which are essentially frcition clutches). You might want to try Redline MTL (of the appropriate grade). This is a friction-modified manual transmission oil.
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Thu 13 May 2004 11:58
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - arnold2
Aprilia - have you any links for getting parts from Japan ... as you say, Fedex isn't loads (especially when the bits in my box cost over £500 ex VAT .... :-(
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Thu 13 May 2004 14:04
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Gavin
Avoid a GL-5 oil - mineral or synthetic, unless the label actually specifies it is for manual gearboxes. GL-5 oils are for heavy hypoid diffs and will be too slippery to let the synchromesh work properly. Too many garages don't realise this!
Red Line MTL is for synchromesh gearboxes and make the gear change as smooth as silk.

Gavin
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Thu 13 May 2004 23:24
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Aprilia
Avoid a GL-5 oil - mineral or synthetic, unless the label
actually specifies it is for manual gearboxes. GL-5 oils are for
heavy hypoid diffs and will be too slippery to let the
synchromesh work properly. Too many garages don't realise this!
Red Line MTL is for synchromesh gearboxes and make the gear
change as smooth as silk.
Gavin


The GL-5 rating has nothing to do with 'slipperiness' - it is the EP load rating.
In general GL-5 mineral gear lubes should not be used with modern manual transmission because many will contain sulphur-based EP additives. These are acidic and can attack non-ferrous synchro rings. This is the 'EP smell' you get from hypoid oil.

Synthetic GL-5 uses different EP additives (zincdithiophosphate) and are relatively benign to non-ferrous metals. Almost all synthetic GL-5's will state something along the lines of 'suitable for all GL-2 - GL-5 applications'.

MTL is friction modified and *can* improve matters; but it can also make matters worse (e.g. when used in a manual 'box designed to run with Dexron-type ATF - some MB's and BMW's).
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Fri 14 May 2004 06:17
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - THe Growler
It must be recent Toyotas. My neighbour's '92 Corolla has over 300,000km on it and still going strong. Mind you he does look after it.My little Mazda-based Ford Lynx I bought last year has one of the sweetest boxes I've ever driven. It's not even really run in at 5000km but it is literally a one finger gearshift. Lovely.
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Fri 14 May 2004 09:38
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Singer-G
My Corolla Verso has been fine so far, but its only done 23000 miles. Is there anything I can do to reduce the chance of these problems occuring? I know gearbox oil is not usually changed these days, but would the occasional change of oil help?
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Fri 14 May 2004 09:47
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - peterb
I had an Avensis with a terrible gearbox. However the 6 speed in my IS200 is fabulous. Mrsb's Yaris is fine.
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Fri 14 May 2004 10:52
NOTE TO HJ - PLEASE UPDATE BREAKDOWN! - arnold2
HJ - can you update the car-by-car breakdowns to relect this thread - the newer model Corolla and Avensis gearbox problems are well-known in the trade (the first thing the gearbox specialists asked me on the phone was "is it jumping out of 5th/bearings gone ?"). Seems to be an issue that has cropped up in the past 5 years.

Cheers - keep up the good work; the best motoring site on the web, IMHO.
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Fri 14 May 2004 10:54
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - daveyK_UK
you gotnothing to worry bout with toyota.

My hyundai accent 01 - has had 6 thats right 6 new syncros for gears 1,2,3,4 put in and yet second gear still crunches every time.

worst part is, warranty is over and they dont know how to fix it. Apparently face lift models use a new box and are fine, but it looks like i have lots more crunching ahead of me.

Any solutions? (except for selling it)

hyundai refuse to install a new box and recognise it as a mass fault on the car, as the two other accents i've driven ( W and X plate) have the exact same problem.

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Fri 14 May 2004 11:39
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - misterp
I will be coming up to my first Corolla service in a couple ofmonths time. I seem to remember HJ suggesting a Gear box oil change at this stage on new cars to remove debris? Does anyone think this may help/would the dealer be receptiveto this suggestion??
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Fri 14 May 2004 14:32
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - A Dent{P}
An oil change won't hurt, unless they introduce more debris than they take out. The oil hardly degrades in a gearbox IMHO.

This thread is a surprise, not least because it involves Toyota. For a long time now it has been a given thing that cars go to the scrap yard with the original manual box (at least I thought so). Maybe things like linkages need adjusting or replacing on some awkward models, but the box - no way.

Thinking on, there are box specialists around and they must be doing business so some one is having problems somewhere. I can?t help thinking box problems are uncommon because I have never had or known of anyone with one.
Even Haynes manuals no longer do a gearbox section because so few people ever venture into them.

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Sun 14 Jan 2007 23:35
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - jase1
you gotnothing to worry bout with toyota.
My hyundai accent 01 - has had 6 thats right 6
new syncros for gears 1,2,3,4 put in and yet second gear
still crunches every time.


Sorry, but this is a combination of abuse, and incorrect diagnosis. The problem with these boxes is the linkage -- push the clutch pedal all the way down before changing gear, each and every time, and the synchros will not go. Garages are useless -- they don't recognise that the noise is coming from inside the cabin (at the gearshift end of the linkage), and not the box itself. Genuinely grind the gears, and you get a totally different noise.

I know this, because I had an Accent for three and a half years. For the first month, it crunched, until I cottoned on to the fault (garage were going to change the 1/2 synchro). Change my gearshift procedure, and it never crunched again in 40,000 miles.

You're abusing it. Period.
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Sun 14 Jan 2007 17:55
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - peter h
My 02 Toyota Avensis ground to a halt suddenly last weekend. The Toyota garage has informed me that the gearbox is damaged. I expected this to be sorted under my extended warranty. However I have just been informed that an assessor has judged that I was driving irresponsibly as I would have heard an abnormal noise for several weeks prior to the breakdown. There was no noise. In fact there was no warning at all that anything was wrong. Any comments or similar experiences please.
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Sun 14 Jan 2007 18:26
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - y2k+4
Celica 00 6-spd gearbox did 154k in 4 years and never missed a trick - despite the occasional grinding of a woman who never dipped the clutch all the way when trying to engage reverse...amazing (and in my opinion) highly underrated car for what it was...
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Sun 14 Jan 2007 18:46
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - jc2
Reminds me of the old joke"it's raining Datsun cogs".
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Sun 14 Jan 2007 19:06
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - oilrag
"An oil change won't hurt, unless they introduce more debris than they take out. The oil hardly degrades in a gearbox IMHO."

My opinion too, re the debris and degradation.
Thats why I prefer *gear oil* rather than the engine oil type boxes that seem to need regular changing.

In fact I dont check G/B oil levels unless I can see a leak due to the danger of introducing grit.

Worst box I had was a Honda where the box oil ( engine oil)was always needing changing while our other car with the Gear oil type, did not have a change interval.
All relevant IMHO when you are grubbing about on the drive in winter :)
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Sun 14 Jan 2007 19:11
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - mark999
My 00 1.0 yaris has always had a very poor gear change. When I changed the oil to a synthetic 75w-90 it made it much worse.
The dealer changed the oil for ATF fitted a modified gear linkage which helped quite a lot. but I was still not satisfied. In desperation I tried Redline MTL which resullted in much better results.
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Sun 14 Jan 2007 21:28
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Aprilia
Gear oil and engine oil are the same base product (either mineral or synthetic) but have different additive packs. Gear oils have EP, anti-foaming additives etc.
All of these oils shear down with use - if you drain gear oil after its been in for a while it is always thinner than the stuff that you put in. Often has 'sparklies' (bits of yellow metal off the synchro) in it too. I would always change gear oil on a regular basis.

Unless transmission is specially designed to run with ATF (e.g. some Mercs, BMW, GM etc) then I wouldn't use it. Its very thin and only rated GL-2.

For a thin gear oil to give good shifting try something like Redline MTL or Amsoil 'Synchromesh' MTF. These are 70W-80 oils, or thereabouts, to a GL-4 rating.
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Mon 15 Jan 2007 10:28
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - DP
A friend only got 30,000 miles out of his 2001 Celica 190's gearbox and the replacements were on back order at the time.

In fact that individual car was dreadful. Unreliable in almost every respect.
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Mon 15 Jan 2007 11:32
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - arnold2
Aprilia - what gearbox oil for an 02 Focus TDCi - mines a bit 'grunchy' (still better than my old Corolla, tho !).
Cheers !
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Mon 15 Jan 2007 14:58
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Aprilia
I think Ford spec is a 75W-90, but you could go with Castrol SMX-S, which is a fully-synth 75W-85. About £10/litre and you'll need 2litres
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Mon 15 Jan 2007 21:23
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Xileno {P}
Toyota gearboxes rubbish? Surely not. We will be told the Earth's flat next.
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Tue 16 Jan 2007 07:59
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Collos25
There must be an awful lot of bad gearboxes in the world then when you look at some of the pickups in Africa and the middle east held together with tape and string but the boxes still change perfectly and the engines still run.I ran a toyota corolla in Saudia for a year and it was totally thrashed to death except it never did die and ran as sweet as a nut all day every day.
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Sat 7 Jul 2018 14:52
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Nick Allen

My Corolla did 250000 miles engine/gearbox never touched, still going strong when I sold it how rubbish is that !!!!.

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Sun 8 Jul 2018 00:53
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - sandy56

Never had a problem in any of my three successive Toyotas. Must be lucky I guess.

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Sun 8 Jul 2018 07:53
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - nellyjak

The OP speaks utter tripe....no wonder this 14 year old thread hasn't had any attention for so long...and rightly so.

I've had many Toyotas (still have two) and none of them (both manual and auto) have been an ounce of trouble.

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Mon 9 Jul 2018 00:36
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Big John

I have two seperate friends who have had gearbox failiure in the manual 1.8 Avensis

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Mon 9 Jul 2018 15:06
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - nellyjak

I have two seperate friends who have had gearbox failiure in the manual 1.8 Avensis

Ah...just the two then eh.??..I rest my case.

Edited by nellyjak on 09/07/2018 at 15:07

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Wed 11 Jul 2018 00:04
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Big John

I have two seperate friends who have had gearbox failiure in the manual 1.8 Avensis

Ah...just the two then eh.??..I rest my case.

Just stating my known experience

As a percentage of how many people I know who had an Avensis this was a high failure percentage. Saying that even though it was out of warranty Toyota fixed one of them for free.

I just think Totota went through a bad patch with some cars in the early noughties. The petrol Avensis also has been know to burn oil - usually PCV valve though

The original Carina was mechanically bulet proof (as was the Corolla and Starlet of old). C

The Toyota hybrids are also mechanically great

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Mon 9 Jul 2018 15:04
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - yokel38

Having worked 'on the front line' at a Toyota dealership for 30 years, I can categorically say that I've never heard of anything like this on Toyota manual gearboxes. I can probably count on my hands how many gearbox repairs we have done in all that time.

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Mon 9 Jul 2018 15:10
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - nellyjak

Having worked 'on the front line' at a Toyota dealership for 30 years, I can categorically say that I've never heard of anything like this on Toyota manual gearboxes. I can probably count on my hands how many gearbox repairs we have done in all that time.

Quite right.....and they were probably down to lack of maintenance or misuse.

For me, Toyota reliability has been simply excellent..and I've had a few.!

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Mon 9 Jul 2018 21:09
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - SteveLee

The auto-transmission of my MK2 Honda CR-V started failing at just 110K miles, my Brother's MK4 CR-V stuffered DMF failure at 70K miles and then gearbox failed just 5K miles later (reverse gear!) - never known or heard of a Toyota gearbox failure amongst my family, friends of colleagues - I know of at least 5 VW DSG failures of the top of my head - four of which on babied one-owner cars. (Three Sciroccos!)

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Wed 11 Jul 2018 00:28
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - Bolt

never known or heard of a Toyota gearbox failure amongst my family, friends of colleagues

You may not have done but it doesnt mean it never happens, I know several people that had the Avensis 1.8 manual and they all had severe gearbox bearing wear within 3 years, One person had 3 gearboxes over a 10 year period, the 3 rd gearbox failure made him change to a different car

that problem only occured to my knowledge on the Avensis 1.8

I often find a car is called rubbish when a problem occurs which tends to make the owners bias toward the makers, even though the problem only happens to a small number of cars

fords had a similar problem in the late 80s no one mentions that.

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Wed 11 Jul 2018 09:06
Toyota gearboxes are rubbish ! - nellyjak

never known or heard of a Toyota gearbox failure amongst my family, friends of colleagues

You may not have done but it doesnt mean it never happens,

Of course it happens..name me a car that doesn't have some kind of issue.!..the point is that with Toyota, Honda and the like, the chances of suffering such issues are usually far less than with many other marques.

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