Wondering if anybody has any experience of or may have some advice on the following. On Saturday I took a car for a test drive (was a P reg Xantia) and due to a suspension fault of which the garage selling it was aware of but advised us that the car would be OK to take for a spin (they said the fault would be rectified when they placed a new MOT on it for the sale). Anyway, nearing the end of the drive which I took with my father, whilst we were just about decidng the car was good enough to buy, cruising happily (and overtaking on a slight bend)at 70mph when (this is the bits I remember) the car swerved in towards the car I was overtaking, then swerved the other way and the rest is a blur! Miraculously we both got out of the car seemingly unhurt to find the it facing the wrong way down the carriageway in the outside lane with a 20 ft dent in the barrier, stones and gravel on both sides of the carriageway and 1 x written off xantia complete with utterly destroyed, dripping with a rainbow of fluids drivers side etc etc... No other vehicles became involved but how we got out without at least a broken something or other I don't know. Anyway the policeman who dealt with it said that as the car turned out to have no current MOT (of which we were not aware, although we knew it would need the job doing to pass a new one) was liable to prosecution as it is your own responsibility to check a car has MOT before driving, as, obviously were the garage but that he'd be happy to draw a line under it, and that's the end of it apparently.
While I'm not interested in some drawn out legal affair where I end up in court for the no MOT thing etc, does anybody know where else I may stand legally with regard to their insurance etc etc? I'm sure I must have some comeback but don't know where to start. Any advice? Cheers
(By the way, aches and pains, particularly in my hands from the steering wheel duly followed as has a fear of going round bends at any more than 3 mph!)
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Too much for here.
Its sufficiently complex that you need to go and sit down with a lawyer practiced in dealing with such things. I doubt if one of the "no fee" ones will do - I think you need the real thing.
For a start you need to understand who is liable here. And the garage may be guilty of breaking the law, but that doesn't neccessarily mean that they are liable for whatever happened to you.
M.
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Hi, Demon
Sorry to read about your mishap. I am not a lawyer, but I think that the garage has a "duty of care" and is legally bound to ascertain that the vehicle on test is "fit for purpose" namely; a test drive.
Hope this has been of some help.
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Hi, Demon Sorry to read about your mishap. I am not a lawyer, but I think that the garage has a "duty of care" and is legally bound to ascertain that the vehicle on test is "fit for purpose" namely; a test drive. Hope this has been of some help.
A red herring, IMHO. If the garage was aware that the vehicle had no current MoT certificate then they may be guilty of aiding and abeting, but the onus is always on the driver to ensure that the vehicle is in fact safe - an explicit legal requirement will always override a notional "duty of care".
Demon, the best advice has already been given - speak to a lawyer as this is not a straightforward issue. Given the situation, I sincerely doubt that you will be treated as harshly as if the vehicle had been your own, but it is likely that you will have to carry the can for any criminal proceedings the police bring, but you may well have grounds for a civil claim for damages against the garage. Again, speak to m'learned friends.
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So, you took a car for a test drive, and (one way or another) you ended up with a written off car. Moreover the car had no MOT, which as driver is your responsibility.
1. As it stands, you appear to have got off scott free for the MOT infringement. Policeman Plod exercised sensible judgement, be grateful.
2. You don't appear to have suffered any major medical problem. (Sore hands don't seem too serious.) Be grateful.
3. In fact, you don't appear to have suffered any loss. Be grateful.
I'd be inclined to let sleeping dogs lie, before the garage come chasing after you for having wrecked their car through what they would claim is your own incompetence, and you run the risk of being in court and being asked by the garage's lawyers whether you were driving a car without an MOT - which would make you look pretty foolish. And let this be a salutory warning to the rest of us to check MOTs before taking a car for a spin.
How many people have taken a car for a test drive (relying on the third party insurance of their own insurance), then bought the car and NOT put insurance in place for the trip home? Easily done.
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I really don't want to go into this as I think he'd be better seeing a lawyer in person.
However; The MOT is irrelevant. There is a law which says you need one, but that is a minor offence for the owner of the vehicle never mind the driver.
But an MOT is not relevant, in any way whatsoever, as to the roadworthiness of a car. The garage's lawyers would only ask you that question if they were trying to defend an "NO MOT" charge which nobody in their right mind would do.
What you might get asked is why you drove a car with a potentially lethal fault which you were informed about. The case would centre on why you did that and what you were told about it.
If I drive my car and its lethal because something is wrong with it, an MOT is not going to help me in any defence whatsoever with the *possible* exception of it had been done 30 minutes ago.
It is not relevant whether or not the car had an MOT. It is relevant that it had a known fault which appears to have been dangerous.
Now go and see a lawyer.
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My God you were lucky with the action of Plod - obviously not Traffic trained. My mind whirls with serious offences other than the MOT Certificate committed by both yourself and the Garage.
As Mark says go legal, very legal.
DVD
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Any car with a suspension fault being driven at 70mph is an accident waiting to happen, especially a Xantia, as it would affect the whole of the car's suspension. Why did you drive it at that speed, to find out if it was roadworthy? If so, you certainly got your answer
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Its unusual for motor trade insurance to cover a demo without a member of staff.
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Just before you go 'legal, very legal' some questions:
1. Why did the accident happen. Ask yourself how certain you are that you were driving within your normal capabilities. Did you just 'lose it', or was it the fault of the suspension 'fault' that had been identified. Remember you're going to have to stand up in court about this.
2. Are you correctly blaming the garage & the faulty suspension for the accident? (Did you skid on loose diesel, was the road wet & you were really going faster than you should?)
3. What are you trying to get out of this? & why? Compensation? For what?
4. Have the garage asked you to cough up some money towards the car/excess? If not, why not - do they agree that the accident was the result of the suspension?
5. What has happened to the car? Is it needed for evidence (of faulty suspension)? Has that evidence been destroyed by now?
6. What was really wrong with the suspension? I've driven a car that has subsequently failed its MOT on suspension, as no doubt have many BRers. That didn't make it an accident waiting to happen - not that day, anyway.
Your current situation is neutral (it hasn't cost you anything, you haven't actually been hurt - luckily). You can _pay_ to go to see a lawyer with unknown results. You are not entirely in the clear yourself, as the policeman pointed out (DVD's mind is awhirl!). I'd stick with the sleeping dogs, rather than potential expense, frustration and long drawn-out legal battle with potentially no gain other than irritating the garage & its lawyers! The only real winner is likely to be your lawyer.
And the makers of blood pressure pills. Relax!
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Mark,
I agree with you -these are complex legal issues. The problem is that so much advice is thrown at the poster in this sort that this muddies the waters and potentially confuses people. I think a line needs to be drawn.
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Agree. I shall lock the thread.
Demon, consider the points raised, ask yourself if you are going to be prosecuted or sued in any way and if so, get proper legal advice. If not, consider yourself fortunate and move on. Hope the comments and advice received so far have helped.
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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Good post MapMaker - I agree 100%.
The only reason to get lawyers involved would be to defend yourself, anything else is just worry, hassle and expense - remember all those news reports about people losing everything over a 2ft strip of privit hedge.
That test drive was - as you know - a bad mistake.
Count yourself lucky not to have killed anyone, yourself included, and move on.
CF
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