Well, the 10% was in some brochure I read. But I will say that in the last year I have found a material amount of roads which have changed.
|
Well I had my first real experience of SatNav today, courtesy of a friend of mine - and I have to admit to being completely bowled over.
I was amazed at what it did, totally gobsmacked in fact - and I am in debt to my pal for being the one that showed this to me - if any of you can afford this thing, then do it!
OK my personal experience is small, but the small things that I have seen lead me to believe that bigger and better is on the horizon.
I guess that someday this will be something that comes with all new cars. For now it doesn't - but if you can go for it, then do - it is good.
Going now before I start a long lecture on the ins and outs of SatNav!
HF
|
I use a HP Ipaq Navigation System, couldnt be without it.
I mount it on the air vent of my Octavia or Punto.
|
|
|
|
"An update about every two years will be ok and they cost (dvd or cd) about 120 quid!"
If only. The CD update in my Lexus costs £180. If the car were a few months younger then it would have the now standard DVD version instead - and that's £350 a pop to update.
Having said that, the system is utterly fantastic. It's amazing how much satnav reduces your stress. It's more than just finding your way to the destination. When you're travelling on the motorway, for example, you get plenty of warning that in a mile or two you're going to have to be in the left lane for an exit, so when it's heavy traffic and you've missed the exit sign because it was obscured by a lorry you were overtaking at the time it matters not. Or when approaching a roundabout, if the nice lady says "take third exit, then just after that right turn" you know what lane you're going to need to be in well in advance.
It also means that if you hit a jam, well so what - you just take the next turnoff, wherever it is. The system just goes beep twice and re-routes you. Just seems to make life easier all round.
Ok, the Lexus system is probably (one of?) the best out there, but as discussed in another thread you can get a pda with all you need for less than £400 these days from a supermarket.
|
|
Update for the map CD used by Garmin is about £120. Mine is already out of date as the Bingley bypass isn't on! It makes it interesting when using the road as the satnav tries to recalculate a route based on the fact it thinks you are in the middle of a field!
|
With SmartNav you call a call centre at the start of the journey and tell them your destination, the maps are downloaded over the phone link on each journey. The subscription costs £10 a month. The call centre can also be used for other requests - nearest bank, nearest open fuel, report an accident, send flowers to your wife...
The unit is cheaper than many DVD based and takes account of traffic congestion, re-routing you where necessary. My more recent experiences highlight that their trasffic monitoring isn't so good away from the motorways, but still very adequate - and of course the maps are always absolutely current.
|
I bought the Carin VDO system for my Omega from a scrapyard in Germany out of another omega (factory system) for about £230.
I had to buy a UK Map CD,, I ended up buying one off ebay for £15. It was supposed to be 2002, but I'm not sure it is, there's no way to tell, as quite a few newish roads aren't on and it just says "Follow the arrow".
I'm waiting for a 2004 one off ebay now.
You can also update the operating system from time to time, to get new features etc... so mine is 5 years old, but works the same as one you can still buy.
I think it's the best £250 I've spent on a car, you can really sit back and relax and not have to read the jungle of direction signs as they flash past.
It even says "Keep to the right" and such, so that you're in the correct lane for the next instruction. It never makes you rush, and will say "Left turn ahead" or "At the end of the road turn right, then, turn left"....."Turn left"...."Your destination is ahead"
|
|
|
The call centre can also be used for other requests - nearest bank, nearest open fuel, report an accident, send flowers to your wife...
Ah - so you can send her flowers to apologise for crashing her car, then?
|
|
|
|
|
Re the lexus - well thats lexus prices for you. I know they are dear - a friend managed to borrow a cd update on trial from lexus and copied it! There is no reason why the lexus one should be so dear as they buy the system in.
To really apreciate SAT NAV at its best you need on of the good 1500 quid + jobies. Got extensive experience of the VDO dayton one, and it really does work very well, very accurate, with lots of advance warning about being in this lane or the other, and it becomes second nature to listen to the "nice girl" tho she does get very vocal and moan at you if you ignore her and take the wrong road telling you to do a u turn. She gets the message after about two miles and directs you on an alternate route.
Have to say tho my Palm/navman/tom tom setup is very good value for the 60 odd quid I paid on ebay!
|
In the fairness to the manufacturers, it's not their data to sell so they are not completely free to set the price.
The actual mapping companies such as Navtech take a big, big cut.
On the subject of Lexus, they used to have a CD-ROM loan system for when you went out of the country and needed a different map but I bet a few discs went into the envelope back via a CD-Burner...
Garmin charge $150 for an annual update to the European or USA maps which go with their turn-by-turn unit. The initial cost of the European maps if you don't get the maps in a bundle with the unit is £400+ !
|
|
RF, your £60 system off eBay - second hand? Or just outdated...
|
Both.
Not to say its not useful. can still download road updates, but it has no voice, no realtime recalc.
|
I too had my first experience of it last week in a hired 520. It worked all round Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France and Luxembourg, and only got confused with roadworks where there were diversions, when it would realise you weren't going the way it said, recalculate and get you back to the start point of the diversion....
It was a talking system that said "Turn right/left in 3km" and so on, rather than having to read and follow a map. I don't think it ever got me lost, apart from the diversion incident related above. No idea how that would be updated though.
Couldn't see the corners on the 520 either - new shape. Nice drive though..2600 km in 3 days.....
O
|
Just got a Mondeo with their own system in, very impressive. Pretty easy to use once you have a couple of goes at inputting a destination. It has facility to enter the postcode and me being a Royal Mail employee, I find that the quickest way.
I have programmed it for using on local roads just to try it for accuracy and it is excellent. If you ignore the last instruction, it immediately re-calculates the route and will direct you to the next avaiable turn.
As to the cost of updates, Ford's is £225. I know this, as mine was supplied with the dvd case empty. Still they make such big profits it is a drop in the ocean to them to replace.
|
I stress that I am not advocating this in any way, but I am sure that when people are charging such huge sums for a DVD, a black market in ripped versions MUST be developing. £225 for any DVD is taking the mick and will result in black marketeering. A blank DVDR is 30p, so someone, somewhere, will start ripping them.
Satnav will soon be available in all new cars, so the manufacturers can't even claim that production volumes of the DVDs are small. They are simply ripping off the public at these prices; they shouldn't be surprised when people take action to avoid this.
V
|
I've been thinking about buying myself a sat-nav system - based around a PDA, using a program called TomTom. Does anyone have any comments about their experiences with such a set-up. For example:
- is it worth the money (£400 to £450 ish)?
- how well do they work?
- are they genuinely useful, or just a gimmick?
a303
|
Make sure its a Pocket PC based one and not a Palm based one. TOMTOM is good becuase of the POI database structure (points of interest) you can even get a speed camera database for it.
If you havent, check out the german supermarket thread, tho the deal there appears to be not TOMTOM based
|
|
|
I'd have to disagree with RF "To really apreciate SAT NAV at its best you need on of the good 1500 quid + jobies" - friends who have expensive systems have travelled with me and have been deeply impressed with SmartNav (which was £625 fully fitted, plus subs)
|
My 5+ year old Vauxhall one is like the bottom one on here, but built into the dashboard...
www.vdo-dayton.com/HiProducts.html
It works exactly like the more expensive ones above, but without the colour or map. The directions and voice are just the same.....The colour one look really attractive, and will hopefully have one on a future car, but for the time being the monochrome one with just the info you need...no more...is fine.
|
The latest Garmin 2610/2650 units are pretty impressive for "budget" models - they're very close to the full 1500-2000 inbuilt jobs in terms of features and performance.
As for car manufacturers "ripping off" consumers - as I posted above, please remember they only buy the data in. You can buy a lot of new CD & DVD maps for many system direct from the publishers and they are not really much cheaper. Navtech & Co. charge a lot per licence for the whole of Europe and its here the prices need to drop.
|
I had a Peugeot 406 that had their 'turn by turn' (ie not big colour screen) system. It was a useful reassurance but it often left directions at roundabouts etc until too late which could be awkward on multi-lane roads - I used to find myself slowing down well in advance, waiting for the intruction. A series of roundabouts/junctions would sometimes fool it completely.
It would also do some bonkers routing - took me down 'roads' that were little more than tracks. And it always wanted to cut the corner off the M5 South to M42 North/East junction.
I found you needed to have a pretty good idea of where you were going and use the Sat-Nav as backup, but be prepared to ignore it sometimes. It is very good at the final detail of finding the place (house etc) that you're looking for.
|
|
I've got a brilliant system, it updates itself automatically whenever I encounter a road sign or diversion, roadworks etc, gives me real time traffic info second by second. It copes with bumps and knocks that would flatten a PDA, it doesn't need a battery, after years of use I know I can trust it implicitly and if I ever doubt the information it's giving me I can check the info with the press of a button.
|
your wife?
husband?
boyfriend?
girlfriend?
|
>>boyfriend?
Steady on old girl, what do you take me for?
|
Calm down all of you.
I have seen it with my own eyes, and it is amazing. It will surpass all nagging on the g/f, b/f, hubby, wife thing. Just try it!
Oh and I don't work for whoever makes it.
HF
|
And who makes what?
I have friends with O2 mobile telephones who swear by O2 traffic line (they virtually live on it) for avoiding traffic jams. I thought it was absolutely brilliant when I travelled with them. Does anybody know if Orange have anything similar?
Parents once had a car with a year's free Traffic Master, but that didn't let you think ahead. The ability to check whether you should go clockwise or anticlockwise around the M25, for instance, is superb.
Having thought about this for a bit, real time traffic information is to me the important information, rather than particularly the sat-nav.
|
|
AHA - but sat nav now comes with TMC - gives traffic data and re routes you!
|
All this jargon has confounded me! But am increasingly convinced that this is a gadget that I rather fancy.
1. RF's £60 second hand system. Was this just the software or the whole PDA, mounts etc.? (Just trying to ascertain a sensible price for an old fashioned kit.)
2. Do all brands of Sat-Nav come with real time data (TMC - what does that stand for?)
3. If it does come with real-time data, how does it reach you? Bluetooth & telephone/internet? Its own telephone/internet connection? Through the Sat-nav GPS sytem.
Sounds to me as though:
a) Sensible to run it on a PDA platform, so you get 2-gadgets-for-the-price-of-1!
b) PDA needs bluetooth (3-g-f-t-p-o-2) otherwise it's pre-obsolete.
c) Or is that Blackberry that it needs? (Or does blackberry include its own communication system 'telephone'.)
|
1 The Palm (an old C3) was free, the GPS sleve came with software and was 60 quid on ebay. Bluetooth? never heard of it when the C3 was made.
2 No, only the big expensive bits of kit made in the last two years have it
3 From the RDS radio to the GPS system
a: yes
b: not always
c: where did the blackberry come from? thats severely brain dead and no use for GPS
Oh and smokie will be on shortly to tell you you need Smart Nav.
|
3. If it does come with real-time data, how does it reach you? Bluetooth & telephone/internet? Its own telephone/internet connection?
You get a sattelite receiver to place on your dash. No 'phone connection needed. It works out where you are, if you head off the chosen path it will recalculate the route after a couple of minutes (fine on the open road, too late in the middle of central london.....)
|
Funnily enough I too witnessed this minor miracle at the weekend.
A friend visiting had not long purchased a system which he transferred from his car to ours, and it was spot on right through the remote Sussex countryside.
I felt like someone witnessing the first automatically moving vehicle, first flight, mobile phone - whatever. It was so spot on it was unreal!
Not sure what system he purchased but it was under £500.
Depends on how far you travel into the unknown I suppose, I still have the old fashioned system of post it notes stuck to the dash :)
|
Welcome back to the site Hootie - not seen you around in ages!
>>Depends on how far you travel into the unknown I suppose
Since the Great Unknown, for me, tends to start about two miles away from home, I am sure this is the invention for me!(although I'm not yet even as advanced as the post-it notes - scribbled bits of paper that fall off the seat onto the floor and get trodden to oblivion are more my style.)
HF
|
Thanks, both
ND I meant real-time traffic data of the sort that says 'M25 clockwise: traffic stationary junctions 1 to 48; anticlockwise stationary from 48 to 1. Avoid.' To be honest, probably more useful than the navigation bit.
But apparently it comes in on radio waves instead - thanks RF ('...family man, computer consultant, cars owned - in order mini...').
IIRC, Trafficmaster identifies you by reading your numberplate from a blue camera up a pole. Why then doesn't this system get used for tracking stolen cars?
RF, what's a 'sleve'?
So these sat-nav bits that appear on ebay, and look like a radio, ARE a radio as well?
And the low-tech solution: is there an Orange equivalent of O2 traffic line, anybody?
|
A sleve is a spelling mistake
A sleeve is a GPS reciever module that the Palm / Pocket PC slides in to to see the satelites
|
...as predicted by RF, here I am. I can only speak for SmartNav traffic re-routing. This is based on the TrafficMaster congestion system. When you are driving quite happliy on your route, the system is looking ahead on your behalf. So you might get a warning "18 miles ahead, 20 minutes delay on the M25; 26 miles ahead, 10 minutes delay on the M4".
It then tells you whether it has calculated a quicker route and, if it has, you press and hold the button to get the new route downloaded. It continues to monitor your new route and your original route and may divert you again later in the journey if conditions change.
SmartNav has a basic screen as an optional extra but I really don't see the point of it.
There is quite a good (but rather long) demo on www.smartnav.com
|
£1,000 for SmartNav. As opposed the occasional telephone call to 177 on Orange (found it!) at 40p per minute, plus a road atlas. Or 'TA' on the radio.
Found I felt seasick looking at the smartnav demo, with their under- and over- steer!
|
£499 + fitting + subs actually. About £625 fitted, up and running IIRC.
The second best purchase I've made in the last 5 years...(the first being TiVo, a personal video recorder which Mrs S got for Xmas two years back - she didn't know what it was at the time, but now wouldn't be without - but that's another story...)
|
A303
about 6 months agao I purchased from Aldi a pocket PC with Medion satnav package for £380. It was fantastic, however I have since deleted this system and am now using Tomtom which is even better. Maps for France and Spain are readily available for download (FREE) if you search on the web. I would not be without it. The system came compete with dash mounts and satnav receiver, I believe the same system is currently on offer at Halfords for £399 ?
Russ
he who is never lost (now)
|
thanks for posts guys..
interesting reading, still confused as ever!
i think smart-nav sounds like a nonsense>>
|
I've got a HP iPAQ 2210 PDA with TomTom Navigator and a Haicom GPS receiver.
Its a great system, with a lot of third party addons freely available, one of the best being CheckPOInt - a speed camera database which warns you of fixed cameras, known camera van locations and accident blackspots. Its not quite as complete as it could be here in Lancashire, but you can add cameras to the database by pressing a button on the PDA, and then you can connect the PDA to the internet and add your saved locations to the full database. The more people using this, the better the system will become.
TomTom is good, but it would benefit from some newer maps; however V3 has just been released so that may rectify many of the issues with the current maps. The navigation is by 3D colour maps on screen and voice prompts. It also counts down the number of yards until the next instruction, so you know if you're going to be on a road a while or turning off shortly. It also gives good forewaring with the voice prompts, eg 125yds from the end of the road it'll say "At the end of the road, turn right" and as you get within 25yds or so it'll say "Turn Right". It also displays your current speed as calculated off the GPS system so you can tell how far out your speedo is.
|
I've bought The TomTom Bluetooth GPS for use with my ipaq h1940 pocket PC ... I have the TomTom 2 Software But no map!!! It is so frustrating and I cant seem to find one on the internet anywhere ... Where do you download your maps from?
Thanks
Rich
|
As far as I was aware, when you bought the software you got the maps too. I know the V3 maps were updated in November last year, so pretty up to date. The V2 maps were getting on a bit.
Where/when did you buy yours? It may be that you need to go back to the retailer.
|
|
As an aside, Kane still haven't bothered to respond to my requests for info on updated maps for the Kane CarGear package.
|
|
the maps are inlcuded in the tom tom package.
|
The maps are only included if you buy a software+maps version.
TomTom do sell just the software on its own, but its about as much use as a petrol fire extinguisher with no maps!
|
Thanks Guys, Ive got the GB map however I could do with the french map as I'm going next week. As russ said you can download them free, it would be useful.
Cheers
Rich
|
|
Well, you can download the maps but its software piracy. The Western Europe maps are about £120 to buy.
|
Oh Right, Looks like I'll be making ordering that from expansys or something! Thanks for your help anyway.
Rich
|
Interesting thread this - I've been through several routes to sat nav on the cheap ranging from using a Garmin eTrex with MapSource
Your turning is 500m .... 300m .... 200m (miss turn) 200m ... 300m ... 500m so not much use.
Connected the garmin to an iPaq 3630 with a serial cable to TomTom2, much better but found a compact flash jacket and cf GPS card better still.
Latest is an XDA2 (well, i-mate from Expansys, very good) with a Bluetooth GPS adapter (TomTom's own). Works very well but the constantly flashing lights are annoying at night.
Have been looking at TomTom3 with the new maps and much faster route calculation & address finder.
Best bit though is that they're adding live traffic information in May, so through GPRS (on the i-mate!) it should reroute automatically.
The traffic trial is free for 3 months, so for not much outlay you can wind up with a great system
XDA with contract ~200
TomTom3 bluetooth ~200
£400, looks pretty good to me!
--
Lee
MINI adventure in progress
|
|
I'm considering trying Wayfarer on the Nokia 6600 via Bluetooth as this also connects via GPRS for regular mapping updates as well as traffic related re-routing. The iPAQ with Kane can get a bit confused if you deviate from your route and doesn't really get the idea of dynamic rerouting. I beleive that TomTom is better in this respect?
|
|
I just brought a Kirrio system from dabs.com, it cost around £350 and works superbly.
|
|
|
|
|
