Collected a parcel from Halifax Post Office yesterday and returned to my car, parked in the PO's lay by. Get in the car, and I can hear the most dreadful revving noise coming from a little Yaris type hatchback, being 'driven' terribly by an old dear. She is absolutely revving the nuts of the thing, probably driving forward in 3rd or 5th gear.
She starts to reverse into the space behind me. I say to my wife, quick, let?s get out of here before she hits us - but I can't go forward because of the car parked in front of me. And the old dear is getting closer and closer behind!
I hop out of the car to see if I can prevent her getting any closer....but too late. I'm half way around my car and the wife shrieks that the o.d. has hit us. The o.d. gets out and says she is very sorry. (The parking space she was in was about 15 feet long, but she decides to stop only after she has hit me car!!!).
She looks at my bumper and says, no harm done. I'm a bit irate and say "well, I think you have squashed my bumper" and point out that one side of the bumper has popped out of its mounting. She says that she wasn't going fast enough to do any damage and promptly bursts into tears whilst I starting writing down her registration number, name, address etc. She then plays her trump card that her husband (in the passenger seat) has Alzheimer?s disease and she needs the car to get out and about. I point out the huge scrape down the side of her car where she has already had a previous encounter with something solid.
She is an appalling driver - and was witnessed by many reversing into me. One chap ran over and gave me his business card, volunteering to be a witness.
OK, so here is the bit I want help with. Do I:
A. ignore the fact that my bumper is now misaligned and take it on the chin, being sympathetic to someone who has a lot on their plate already who was genuinely sorry at that point in time to the point of getting emotionally upset.
B. proceed to make an insurance claim, take my car to the dealer and get them to check out if the bumper can be realigned - and sting the old dear's insurance as it was 101% her fault and I have witnesses.
C. ring her up and volunteer to give her some extra driving lessons
D. report her to the Police because I consider that she is a danger to other road users and pedestrians, because one day she may well cause a serious accident and kill someone - although this could take away the freedom she has in looking after her husband.
The floor is open.....which choice is the "RIGHT THING TO DO?".
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Do just as you would if any other driver had hit you. She might as well have been a school run mum who needs her car to get the kids to school. If she is a danger to other road users, she'll need to improve her skills or find an alternative means of getting around. There are no special rules for old people - how many stories have we heard of old people in cars selecting reverse instead of first, or hitting the accelerator instead of the brakes, and running people over or causing £1000's worth of damage?
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Thank goodness there wasn't a child stood between the cars, waiting to cross.....IMHO..just sent this story to her insurers, and claim directly off them for new bumper, paint, as the damage is minor and you car is still 99% OK, while you wait for the money, claim directly from her insurers without bothering yours. You can then keep the cash because to offset the value reduction of the car or have it repaired.
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Strikes me that claiming on insurance may not be cost-effective. If the o.d. is willing to pay your repairs, that may be best for her. Beyond that I don't see how there can be special lenient rules for less able drivers in standard cars. Don't get emotionally involved, treat it like any other minor bump.
But it sounds as if it may be too late for driving lessons to do much good?
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She's clearly a danger to other road users, at the very least you have to ask for her to pay for your damage, why should you have to fork out just because she turned on the waterworks at the scene?
I feel sorry for her because Alzheimers is a terrible illness, but there can't be any special rules for her just because she claims to need the car to get her husband out and about, what if next time it's a young child that she hits?
Blue
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If the bumper has no paint damagecracks then I wouldn't claim. Pop into a body shop tomorrow and see if it's superficial or not before claiming.
I doubt the cops will be interested, just a bump in a car park.
I had a very similar experience. Driving down a straight road in traffic at about 20mph, a stream of cars infront and behind me. Old dear (in a Toyota!) turns right from a side street straight into me like I was invisible. I was all over the road trying to avoid her and she just kissed the rear arch and bumper cracking it slightly.
I was about to go completely mental at her, when she played the, my mother's just died card, doh!, she was clearly distraught.
Chap watching gave me his business card as well!
Old dears are a menace, albeit a low speed one!
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sad t'iz, but bottom line: she IS a danger to herself, her husband and everyone else on the road (be they driving or walking) - and you don't know how many accidents she has already had, so treat it like any other claim and proceed via your insurance.
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This is one of those 'hard cases' that test your responses and the rules and probably won't make you feel like a decent human being whatever you do. She probably isn't competent to be behind the wheel but there are reasons why we demand competence. This time, the damage was minor and it would be a shame to restrict her mobility but probably, if she sold the car, she could pay for a lot of taxi fares.
Next time, her mobility may be far more restricted because she doesn't see the oncoming truck, or the school crossing patrol, or whatever.
I wouldn't bother involving the police or the DVLA, or getting personally involved beyond what you need to repair the damage to your car. I would involve her insurers though; your NCB has nothing to gain from settling it privately and it may make her contemplate her driving standards, rather than her feeling as though you are personally intimidating her into paying up when she has done nothing wrong.
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The old lady in the thread probably has defective sight and does not realise how bad she has become. It would probably do her a favour to persuade her to use taxis in future. It would prabably also be cheaper for her too.
I heard of a case where an old gent had been requested to produce his license to the police for a minor infringement. He did so in the evening, parking beside the station, alongside a couple of police cars. The licence was accepted without comment. He then went back to his car, selected the wromg gear, reversed into one of the police cars, then fast forwarded onto the lawn, where he made a great noise digging himself in. The station sergeant ran out, took out the keys, seized his license and ordered him a taxi home.
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Doubt the cops will be interested - was once told the road traffic act doesnt apply in car parks. Not quite sure how it works if you get mowed down in one!?!??!
Have to admit - I would feel bad about stinging the OD's insurance. Think I would be inclined to do the work myself if possible and bill her for the parts.
I take the point made by others, you could have been stood taking things from the boot and it may have been bye bye legs!
Leon
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Sorry but D.
Worked in the credit control department of my local co-op (yes really) for 3 years.
The old dears who put the emotional screws on, 'I'm just out of hsopital' etc turned out to be the biggest crooks in town, the old dears who said 'I've been sick but not sick enough to not know that debts need to be repaid', were as honest as the day is long.
90% she is scamming you and as is said above if not stopped some time soon she will kill someone...
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How many times has she done this? How many more times will she do it?
My old grandma has very selective memory and hearing-cunning, dear old lady! (but she doesn't drive).
If she has to give up the car, what she spends in costs, repairs etc will cover taxi fares, from her door, taken wherever she and her husband needs to go.
Annoying thing is that if she doesn't go through her insurer, they are none the wiser and she still pays £1.50 per year fully comp, yet a young driver who pays £2000 a year TPF&T on a £500 car. The young'un can't even entertain the thought of getting any points or it's back to the test centre so drive carefully, only on £9k a year in a call centre so can't afford any scrapes in the car or it's dig deep into their own pocket.
Sorry, just rambling!
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She looks at my bumper and says, no harm done.
I absolutely hate it when people who run into you, or scrape your bumper, scratch the side of your car, etc, and then come out with this stupid phrase.
No Harm Done!! Of course there's harm done. You've damaged my car that I've worked and saved hard for. What are you going to do to put it right again? Either pay up in cash or put it through your insurance company, that's what.
If I were you, I would contact her and ask what she is going to do to rectify the damage.
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I think it's pretty poor that there is no effective mechanism to have bad drivers removed from the road, as seen in other threads on the problems of elderly drivers.
Another one for the MP, not that it would get anywhere. Not a vote winner, upsetting OAPs.
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The effective mechanism is traffic police. The more there are the more chance bad driving is witnessed by somene that can pull people over and give them a good talking to or a court appearance depending on what they do.
In answer to Heebeegeetee's dilemma. Claim on your insurance and report the incident to the police. The od could be similar to the od that in my parent's town lost control of her car and reversed into a small wall and knocked it over then lost control in the town centre and hit two people, pinning one against the side of a building and broke their pelvis and a few other bones. Od was completely unharmed.
teabelly
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If you put a claim into her insurers then when she comes to renew they will have this against her. If your not the only one she has collided with then she will find it increasingly difficult to get insurance.
I have dealt with old people buying cars and know that the insurance companies are getting tougher on less capable older drivers. Many are facing huge increases in their premiums and know that if they do not renew at the new rates other companies will not cover them.
Whilst I sympathise with their plight, purely on economic grounds selling the car and financing taxis on the proceeds makes sense for everyone.
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I agree with all the sensible suggestions made. However, from experience with one or two of my neighbours, it is clear that continuing to drive is motivated by the very powerful sense of independence that it imparts to the elderly. The delightful 90+ year old opposite me has only just given up driving; she is not the only one to defend her habit in those terms. All very understandable, but it makes little sense in a wider context and I will join with everyone else here in encouraging our older friends and relatives to enjoy a life of luxury -- "Why not hire a chauffeur?" -- by using taxis for the increasingly few excursions that they make. Indeed, I've offered my own services as a taxi among the 80+ year olds in my locality.
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I'd go through the insurers as with any other collision.
There's a fair bit of Old Dear knocking in this and other threads. I'm not quite there yet so this isn't for my benefit! If ODs are so bad, why is car insurance for young men so much more expensive? Answer - because they have/cause the majority of accidents.
There have been a few well-publicised cases of ODs losing control, presumably through confusion, but it's a tiny number compared to the number of young men losing control because of bad driving. It's just that the ODs make a better story for the press.
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OD's having less claims has nothing to do with them being better drivers!
It's because they don't go very far. Their accident rate is one per 100 miles! It's just that they only go out once per month and don't put much mileage on!!
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I'm not quite (state) pension age yet, but cannot forget 1963 when in a garage to check tyre pressures on my first car (Triumph Herald), I was knocked over by 74 year old who had heart attack at wheel of Rolls Royce (auto, of course). He collapsed with foot on accelerator. I was swept aside by front wing and he crossed the road, went thru garden fence and buried the car in a big tree. Both he and wife ended up in back seat and hospitalised for 2-3 months. Lucky me, I escaped with bruised hip.
From age 70 onwards, a DVLA-led medical assessment of ALL drivers should be compulsory (except for me, of course!)
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I say take it through insurers and see the police. Why not - why should she be treated any different?
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Graham - insurers charge premiums according to how often they expect to be asked to pay out. As the ODs don't pay very high premiums it follows that ..
The distance the ODs travel is irrelevant if they don't crash very often.
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Maybe ODs have few claims because people are reluctant to report accidents caused by them. No-one would have any qualms about making an insurance claim against a boy racer.
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Only two options her that you can live with. 1/. Tell the insurance company now, but suggest there may not be a claim as you are offering her the opportunity to pay directly. Then take your car to a body shop and get a quote for the repair to be paid directly, i.e. not an insurance job, then offer the lady the opportunity to pay the body shop before the job is started. If she refuses or does not pay within 7 days go back to the insurance company and initiate a claim. 2/. Claim via the insurance company. If 1/. Applies do not forget to inform the Insurance company you have resolved the matter to your satisfaction. Regards Peter
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Andrew: I think it's the other way round. They don't crash often because they don't travel far. Therefore the insurance is lower. Has nothing to do with safe driving.
There's many an old girl with a metro that's only got 4000 miles on the clock. She probably doesn't even know there's a fourth gear. Thinks she's very safe as she always indicates right when going straight on at a roundabout!
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