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My US license is good for 1 year here and while I had a UK provisional, the usual provisional rules (L plates, no motorway etc)did not apply as long as my US license was still valid i.e within a year of my moving here. I don't know the rules surrounding the full foreign or international license your friend holds, but if the validation period has expired and he is driving soley on his UK provisional then I would say that the provisional rules apply and your friend was driving illegally as he did not have a fully licensed person in the car. Contact the DVLA and find out for sure though.
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I might be wrong about this, but unless you change nationality to British or become permanent resident the 1 year international driving license rule applies every time foreign passport holder enters the country. It's worth checking, if your friend reentered UK at any point during last 12 months chances are he might be ok using his international driving license.
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According to what I have heard from the DVLA, your 1 year starts when you become "normally resident" in the UK. Which was explained to mean, when you took up residence. Going away for a holiday or business trip does not restart the 1 year validation.
I did investigate this carefully as I would rather have continued using my US license rather than go through the hassle of getting a UK one.
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DVD:
1. Yes, his work (he's a scientist) means that he travels all around the world, most recently to Spain last month, but also the US, Italy, etc. - I think he's had four trips in the last six months.
2. He is now, but will be moving abroad again in July.
3. All licences are valid.
I should point out that English is not his first language and that consequently taking the theory test took longer for him than it would for the rest of us.
andymc
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A.
Many years ago I had this before me, Foreign Licence produced along with Certificate of Insurance which only covered those that held A DRIVING LICENCE and not disqualified from holding or by a Court.
Had to write to the Insurance Company involved as to whether they considered a Foreign Licence covered "holding a Driving Licence" and thereby the Company at risk in relation to use.
They wrote back to say the driver was covered.
Much water under the bridge since and the above was not a legal precedent.
Anyhow back to your case. The argument here is Visitor or Resident and I cannot define.Obviously if the first then more helpful to your case. Was discussed here 18 months or so ago when Mod Mark imputted some useful information.I cannot find on search and as his brain is younger than mind he may be able to pull up.
Was about to embark on an afternoon with the Books but initial research with my old friend DVLA has come up with this:
tinyurl.com/2moww
so off to Post Office for Leaflet INF 38?
Any help?. Will advise if I come up with anymore.
DVD
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andymc: is your friend's licence from a designated country?
trancer: did you get an exchange UK licence or are you still on US license. friend of mine sent in his US licence for exchange and got a duplicate US licence when visiting home by declaring original lost/stolen.
DVD: you can download dvla inf leaflets, eg try inf38 here
www.dvla.gov.uk/forms/pdf/INF38_040803.pdf
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US license cannot be exchanged for a UK one. I had to go through the whole theory/practical routine to get a UK license. US license is valid for no more than 1 year, so while I am still within that year, and can legally drive and insure my car on my US license (Insurance is currently on my US license), I got a UK one now rather than have to deal with it in a few months time. No need to surrender my US license in order to obtain a UK license so both are still valid.
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trancer: sorry i meant 51st state canada. accents all aound the same to me.
andymc: i spoke to my dad who use to work motor insurance. he remember one case foreign driver put thru 3rd degree by loss-adjuster for total loss claim.
check made on driver history in previous country, license, birth-certificate, passport, visa, etc.
foreign driver made to feel like criminal. full claim paid after 2 months.
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Dalglish - Thanks for that Download.
Andymac: From D's reference, have a look at the download. Read RESIDENT/VISITOR and the interpretation DVLA put on it. From what you say and the amount of trips out of the Country can he not claim to be a visitor and Domestic/Convential Driving Permit re-validated for 12 months from last return to UK??????
I understand that some EEC States (not sure) will exchange a Domestic Driving Licence for a Community Licence which can be used up to 70 yrs of age in GB. (Loophole if this is correct).
DVD
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I would say if his stay in UK still depends on mercy of Home Office and periodical visa application then he is definitely visitor not resident?
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My current stay in the UK is dependent on the "mercy of the home office" and I am on a probational visa which means I have to re-apply at the end of 2005, but I am considered a resident. My visitor status ended as soon as I was issued with a visa to enter and reside in the UK. Beyond the home office, a visitor would have a hard time explaining time at a fixed address, a UK salary, utility bills in their name etc to an Insurance company reluctant to pay up.
Having said that, andy's friend is from an EC country so chances are he never had to apply for resident or work permits/visas so there is a chance there.
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Thanks for the replies everyone, I and my friend are grateful for the speedy responses and the quality of information. The situation is clarified by the DVLA link provided by DVD. Although my friend is an EU citizen, he grew up in South America and his original driving licence is from his home country. He also has the international licence. Because his licence is not an EU one, I checked out the conditions of the "other countries" section, which state the following:
"All other countries
Visitors
You may drive vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes and with up to 16 passenger seats, provided your full licence or driving permit remains valid for up to 12 months from the date of entering United Kingdom. However, you may only drive large vehicles which have been registered outside GB and which you have driven into this country.
Residents
Ordinary licence holders
Provided your full licence remains valid, you can drive any category of small vehicle shown on your licence for up to 12 months from the time you became resident. To ensure continuous driving entitlement a provisional GB licence must have been obtained and a driving test(s) passed before the 12 month period elapses. If you obtain a provisional licence during this period, you are not subject to provisional licence conditions e.g. displaying `L' plates or being supervised by a qualified driver or being precluded from motorways.
However, if you do not pass a test within the 12 month concessionary period you will not be allowed to drive as a full licence holder and provisional licence conditions will apply."
My friend bought a house here in late April 03. Although he doesn't intend to live here permanently (as I said, he will be leaving again in July), he could only be described as a permanent resident from that point on. This means he is still within the 12 month period where his provisional UK licence allows him to drive effectively as though it was a full UK licence. This is a tremendous relief!
Now he just has to try to trace the scrote who caused the accident in the first place ...
andymc
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"My friend bought a house here in late April 03. Although he doesn't intend to live here permanently (as I said, he will be leaving again in July), he could only be described as a permanent resident from that point on."
House ownership does not imply resident status.
and
no house does not imply non resident.
I would be very wary of using this as your grounds for driving on a foreign licence as I think it could backfire without other additional evidence.
I would look towards the tax authorities or immigration (dept part of the Home Office?) for a better definition.
Sorry.
pmh (was peter)
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Well, to be honest my friend has never considered himself to be a resident, only a visitor - as a research academic in a fairly specialised field he has worked for a number of universities and tends to bounce around the world quite a bit, as well as taking personal trips back home. He simply decided to buy a house rather than rent this time. It's just that in the unlikely event of a challenge to his status of "visitor", it could only be based on the fact that he currently lives in the house he owns here. As he has only owned that house since April 03, ie less than twelve months ago, he should still be ok to drive even if classed as a "resident".
andymc
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Hate to keep harping on the bad, but your friend is not the one who decides if he is a resident or not. If he entered the UK for any other reason than to visit, then he isn't a visitor. Someone who comes here to legally work or attend school, even for a week, is not a visitor. It is the reason for entering that determines it.
If the insurance co has no way of finding out when he entered the country (they don't have access to Immigration records, do they?), they can go on how long he has been insured in the UK. If he has been with them (or another company) for more than a year, he will have a very hard time convincing them he was on a long term "holiday". My current insurance company insured me using my US license, but they made sure to let me know that I could only drive for a year and would need to have a UK license before the renewal date.
Good luck to him all the same, he might be able to satisfy the insurance company just on the stamps in his passport and hope they don't investigate it further.
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Don't mind the "harping on" at all - all advice and perspectives are welcome. In fact, let's look at it from a worst-case scenario perspective, ie on the basis that he was supposed to adhere to the usual terms of a UK Provisional licence - does this mean that his insurers would have grounds for refusing to cover him since he was driving alone? If this were to happen, would he be able to ask for his premiums back?
I now have another question arising from this incident (which I'll post over on the Technical forum) regarding the non-operation of his car's safety systems.
andymc
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