I won't repeat all the usual arguments, because they have all been done ad nauseum before. One thing that makes me choose petrol is the little-publicised deleterious effect on heater performance of the slower rate of warm-up of the diesel engine coolant, particularly at idle. (Caused, of course, by the greater fuel efficiency of the diesel engine ~ there, I've admitted it !)
Parking outside overnight in frosty weather usually sorts the petrol men from the diesel boys.
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Diesel engines are also heavier so there is more metal to warm up which is why the coolant will take longer to get heat into it.
I'll choose diesel once the engines are as quiet as a petrol, especially when cold and when idling. Even the expensive BMW diesel engines are loud when cold. If they were loud in a nice way like a tvr or a ferrari V10 that would be a great improvement!
teabelly
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Nearly a valid argument L'escargot but the Audi A2 has a Webasto diesel powered auxilliary heater to overcome this problem. Result for me: warm air coming through within quarter of a mile of leaving home, better than my Focus which needed a mile or so. With a bit of extra electronics it can be made to come on before you start the car so its nice and cosy before you set off!
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Nearly a valid argument L'escargot but the Audi A2 has a Webasto diesel powered auxilliary heater to overcome this problem.
And it uses fuel to do it ~ might as well choose petrol in the first place!
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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About 0.1 gallon per hour when it's required. This extra fuel use is not quite equivalent to a 20 mpg difference between the Audi and the Focus!!
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Some of the new diesels (sorry I don't know exacrly which ones) have various supplementary heaters.. There is even a belt driven one, which uses a new type of gel which gets hot when agitated!
Others just use electrical heaters, or indepandant fuel burning heaters.
Manufacturers have recognised that a requirement is growing for additional heat sourses, and there are many products being developed by the Siemeans, Beru, Bosch, Dana type companies who supply the manufacturers.
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Partly agree my little french snail.
In my laguna dCi, 5 mins of idling from start on a frosty morning produces enough warm air to defrost the windscreen - just like my old petrol cars. - no difference there.
However, 3 miles down the road, the petrol is blowing hot toasty air, and the laguna aint, just barely luke warm stuff. I used to get warm half way to work, now it only gets hot as I drive in the car park.
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As a recent diesel convert, I too have noticed this 'caveat' of how long a diesel engine takes to warm up. No one told me that when I bought it.
So to make up for this I press the heated seat button et voila. Warm buttocks.
Mind you when a diesel engine is warmed up, it stays warmed up for longer if you leave it parked for a while.
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Mind you when a diesel engine is warmed up, it stays warmed up for longer if you leave it parked for a while.
Could this be because diesels are more apt to still use iron blocks, I wonder?
Anyway, my Clio dci uses three glow plugs in a little manifold placed in the heater feed pipe to enhance warm up speed. Seems to work ok.
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Apologies for repeating comment made further up regarding auxiliary heaters...
Another vehicle with these are the diesel Galaxy/Sharan/Alhambras.
The Webasto unit in my Galaxy causes some alarm in passers by who don't realise what it is (ie 99.99% of the population), as it
a) stinks to high heaven when working
b) sounds like a jet engine taking off
c) visually smokes at times
d) ticks and
e) runs on after you've turned the engine off
the combination of these resulting in numerous calls of "'ere mate, there's summat up wiv yer motor"
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Our Xantia HDi (W reg) also has such a device.It does b) and e) above and it also "steams" occasionally from a little exhaust pipe in front of nearside front wheel. First time my wife noticed the steam she thought the car was on fire and the roaring noise (we liken it to Concorde taking off!) did not help either! Of course, this is only apparent after a very short journey. Seems to work though - the heater comes on quickly.
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bt's trannys have a similar system not the new connects though it's to heat a water cylinder for hand washing after working on the grease filled cables but it also heats up the van so very handy on frosty mornings.
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One of the diesel's virtues is fuel efficiency/economy and using a separate diesel-fuelled heater seems to negate some of this. As a recent happy convert to diesel driving, slow heater warmup is something I'm prepared to tolerate.
Mind you, I might become less tolerant if we have a severe winter.
Incidentally, when the engine is at normal operating temperature there's no shortage of heat available in the cabin.
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hi how do you make it come on before you start the car ?
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Do these Kenlowe engine pre-heater thingies make any difference in terms of getting your car cosy quickly on a cold morning?
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Apparently the answer to my question is yes:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=29...6
So there's the solution to M. L'escargot's problem.
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Oh come on, the noise of modern diesels is nice, the BMW 530d is quieter than the 530i at 70mph, and thee is a much lower pitch engine tone as they don't rev as high.
On a cold morning (and hot ones for that matter) I think diesels sound great, they remind me of the fairground generators I was fascinated by as a youngster, farm equipment and plant equipment, fire engines roaring along the road, all the stuff that keeps the industrial world ticking over.
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According to What Car, disel is forecast to hit £1.00 a litre very soon, due to shortages. That wil remove all the advantages as far as I can see.
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I wore a jumper on cold mornings when driving the TDI on cold mornings. (As well as normal clothing.)
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Never found this a problem on BMW diesels (now on number 3 with number 4 on the horizon) fast warm up - although I was told off on this site for starting it up on frosty days and then having breakfast.....
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"Oh come on, the noise of modern diesels is nice"
I think you left the "r" off the end. I was standing next to a 530d when it was switched on yesterday and the noise was not good...
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Never found this a problem on BMW diesels (now on number 3 with number 4 on the horizon) fast warm up - although I was told off on this site for starting it up on frosty days and then having breakfast.....
>>
The idling police will be after you soon...
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According to What Car, disel is forecast to hit £1.00 a litre very soon, due to shortages. That wil remove all the advantages as far as I can see.
Diesel is between 2 and 4p a litre more expensive than petrol, but even as the cost has risen recently, the price differential has remained the same as far as I have seen.
As the cost of fuel goes up, the benefits of diesel only increase because you'll be using less of it.
My previous petrol car did around 30mpg, over broadly the same trips my diesel car does 45mpg, so I'm about 33% better off on fuel. At todays prices diesel could be 20p a litre dearer than petrol and my fuel bill would still be less than a petrol.
I also much prefer the power delivery of a TD engine, which is another big advantage for me.
You do have to be careful when choosing your diesel these days, because some of the higher powered units are not particularly economical. I have experience with the PSA 2.2HDi and the Mazda 2.0d 136 and both of these slipped under 40mpg during my day to day use. VAG 1.9 TDi, Ford's own 2.0 TDCi, and BMW's 2.0d seem to be about the best for fuel.
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When they have warmed up, which on our Grand Voyager doesn't take long, you can't really tell it's a diesel.
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All the diesel Voyagers i've seen and heard have been very agricultural
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Subjectively, warming-up doesn't seem to take long with the A4 - not noticeably longer than SWMBO's Civic. The switch to direct all air to the windscreen is effective very quickly - maybe not quite as quick as a Ford electric screen but then you don't get the distortions either.
For me the extra low-down torque of a diesel is worth it every time, and at my annual mileage - varies between 15k and 20k - the extra cost is offset by the extra economy.
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we managed to get 37.7 to the gallon ehich is surprising for it's size and weight.
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