Those are all good and fair points, Chris. But actually I hate seeing child seats on a bicycle too; as you say they just cannot be safe.
Maybe you're right that these trailers are safer than the seats. I don't know. And maybe in places like Holland they are the norm, but of course cycling is so much more common there, and I'd guess motorists are far more aware of such things than we are over here.
I just felt that if any car had tried to overtake the thing, and I'm sure many would have tried, the results could have been horrendous.
Personally I feel that to put a child in such a vulnerable place, and not even be able to see if it's ok, is just not a good thing to do.
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It's really making the best of a tricky situation I think. As I say, kids tend to enjoy trailers more than seats so they are less of a worry. I actually toured Ireland a couple of years ago and towed a trailer with camping gear in it for about six hundred miles (in ten days!); we spent a lot of time stopping to talk to bemused people in towns and villages, but they did give us quite a bit of free food and drink, so that was ok. Anyway, it was FAR easier than touring with bags on the bike and therefore much safer. In my experience car drivers also tend to be very wary of anything vaguely unusual on the road; tandems, recumbents, child trailers, tricycles and so on all get much better treatment than your average shopping bike.
Chris
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I think the safety issue here is not the fact that it is a little trailer that is from what I have seen quite unstable, but the fact that the people using them seem to think that because they have a small child in a trailer thay can use the whole road and pull out into traffic whenever they want because car drivers will automatically stop on seeing a small child in a trailer.
Obviously not everyone who uses these things has the same attitude but certainly round my way the majority of people seem to use them with the attitude that if " I pull out with my child in a trailer everyone is going to give way to me and stop"
It's only a matter of time before this attitude will result in a very nasty accident.
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I wonder if it's just that you put them higher up in your hierarchy of observations because they are an "unusual" vehicle; in other words you wouldn't pay them so much attention otherwise. I'd be very surprised if many people interested enough in cycling to buy a child trailer (£300 for a good one, but you won't get a practical one for less than £120) actually have the attitude you suggest--they'll be much too experienced and concerned for their safety. But cyclists do have to be assertive or go nowhere and that can seem reckless even when it's not, especially to cagers, who have a much more limited view of what's going on on the road around them--often much more limited than they realise in my experience.
Chris
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£300? Plus all the helmets and stuff. For a couple of hundred more I could get a decent car. It would give me the creeps to think I couldn't see what was happening with my kid, with vehicles tearing up behind me and too late to take avoiding action.
I have also seen these rickety looking things, which, as with HF, make my skin crawl when I think of an infant unprotected and placed head on to oncoming traffic. When I saw my first one in UK and thinking of the burgeoning ban-everything culture in those once sceptred isles, my first though was surely these things can't last long before some seat-warmer (for once sensibly) finds a way of outlawing them.
As for relying on the curiosity factor as a safety element, I'll take child seats and a layer of metal thank you.It might be PC-approved to take such risks in Holland, if so my opinion of the Dutch as a nation of sensible people just took a dive.
If we are to discuss the alleged perceived hazards of relative motoring minutiae like window tint, these monstrosities would be far worthier of serious attention.
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£300? Plus all the helmets and stuff.
It's down to weight, Growler. The best ones are made from very strong, very light materials; the cheap ones are made from old anchors. They go way higher than £300, by the way.
Chris
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I think a lot of the reaction here comes down to respect. In the UK and obviously the Phillipines, you are regarded as poor (or even anti-car, Miat) if you ride, therefore less worthy of road-space. Not everybody takes that view, e.g Holland. Shades of the Matrix here: when we all live in metal coccoons, the riders/pedestrians won't be able to get in the way:)
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You can tell if they are cyclists by the way they will check their suroundings and ride in a manner that is both safe and courteous to others.
Unfortunately round my way there are a lot of big earners from the city and they buy these things because they think they are trendy. They then ride them with the arrogance they have when traveliing to the city and everyone who earns less is scum and should therfore give way immediately. Unfortunately it is the children who will get the full force of the car that hits the trailer and the adult will probably just walk away.
Again it is just down to peoples attitudes. I'm sure that used properly these trailers are perfectly safe and very usefull.
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I'm not a cyclist, never have been and likely never will be. And I'm sure that most are extremely careful, extremely safe, and extremely aware of their own vulnerability on the roads.
But not even being able to see if your kid is ok, or even if he/she is still there, seems to me utter folly. It's like the many many people I see who walk down the street involved in conversation, with tiny toddler kid stumbling along several yards behind. These people do not know if the kid is ok, or if he/she has just marched out into the road.
I'm sure these trailers would be fine to use cycling through the countryside or parkland, but on the roads? - no!
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I think there's a bit of over-reaction here to the idea that the kid is behind you and out of sight. Firstly they are not free to wander off at will. Secondly they are near enough that you can actually talk to them. And thirdly I've not come across a kid who didn't enjoy it immensely. I'm actually glad that car drivers see this as a hazard and feel so strongly about it; that can only be good for the safety of the kids. But I do think that the perceived risk is bigger than the actual one. When did you last run into the back of a cyclist?
Chris
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"I'm actually glad that car drivers see this as a hazard "
I think the point is that some motorists here feel they might NOT see them, at all, until it is too late.
Mind you, I also think there is a case for people being less concerned about their kids, and feeling they need to be watching them every minute, and calling instructions and guidance. Let the kids learn on their own, like we all did!
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I think if you want to see what your little darlings are up to in the bike trailer, you just turn round. Bit like looking at kids in the back seat of a car, really. Or you could fit a mirror - to bike or car to see passengers. It's not rocket science.
And, from experience, a child in a seat on the bike alters the bike's handling completely, so, if you've got the cash, a trailer would get my vote. Oh, and a reduced calorie intake for the children for lightness. "No Mars bar for you, we've still got 26 miles to go ..."
H.
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Many years ago my Father, who was always a very keen cyclist, used to have a miniature sidecar which bolted onto the nearside of his bike. These used to be very popular and I believe they were manufactured by Watsonian, who used to, also, make the larger versions to attach to motorcycles to make a combination.
I used to often travel with him with me sitting in the sidecar, when I was small, and, indeed, have in my posession a photograph of me sitting inside! I used to call it "The Little Carriage!!!" Fortunately Mark has forbidden any photographs to be put on this site, well, that's my excuse, anyway!
If anyone still has one of these today then I would expect it to be worth rather a lot of money. The sidecar was held onto the frame which fitted onto the bike with a couple of large wing-nuts, I seem to recall. However, unlike with a motorcycle combination where the fixing was rigid, the cycle version allowed for the cyclist to lean over to one side, but the sidecar always remained upright. If the cyclist didn't want the sidecar attached all the time, it could simply be removed by undoing the wingnuts.
I'm not too sure how well a bike and sidecar would fair in todays traffic, thought, so it might not be quite such a good idea to try using one today.
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>>Fortunately Mark has forbidden any photographs to be put on this site, well, that\'s my excuse, anyway!
oh, do I ever have bad news for you !!!
Links to images are forbidden here, but there is a photo gallery for posting interesting photographs. This was kindly set up by Lee.
As usual I cannot recall the address, but I think this is it...
groups.msn.com/honestjohn/shoebox.msnw
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Kids in bike trailer v cars.
Kids in a car v HGV.
Where's the differnce?
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Probably about a 50% better chance of survival in the car.
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We bought one of these trailers a couple of months ago, and to be honest have found it excellent. Our kids seem to love it (though possibly novelty value) and it allows my wife to take both of them out cycling whilst I'm at work.
In doing the research into them some manufacturers have caveats along the lines of "Do not use on Public Road", whilst others say "Do not use off-road" (presumably riding across rough terrain). Presumably the Public road one is a cop-out to remove the risk of liability if hit by vehicle, whilst the off-road one might be due to the bouncing that occurs - I wouldn't want to try to tow ours across a heather moorland, and I'm sure our 1 year old and 2 1/2 year old would complain bitterly about the rough ride.
So where does that leave? - mainly disused railway lines and forest roads, but not being ardent mountain bikers these were about our limit anyway, and I'd rather ride without fear of vehicles being "driven" by people with phone to ear, sandwich in hand, brain in neutral, etc. Pooch also enjoys running along with us, so it's the full family outing when we do go (though excluding the goldfish ;-))
As for use in cities or suchlike, I'm not scared to cycle in town - I commuted across Aberdeen by cycle with an "assertive" style and it was the fastest way to get from A to B, and even though I know traffic in Aberdeen is peanuts compared to other places (we complain about a "long" five minute hold up, in Manchester that was a relief from the usual fifteen minutes), but I wouldn't even consider using the trailer on the roads around here.
If you are lucky enough to have access to different modes of transport, you choose the one most appropriate to the situation.
Chris TD
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