Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Fri 27 Nov 2015 14:03

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - John Boy

When you get to a set of lights which are on red, you can leave the gearbox in Drive and wait there with your foot on the brake, rather than engage Neutral and put the handbrake on. What's happening in the gearbox when you do that and are there any important long-term consequences?

I know some people get annoyed by brake lights in front of them in this scenario, but I don't, so I'm not interested in a discussion on that aspect.

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Fri 27 Nov 2015 14:32

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - gordonbennet

All of our cars are TC autos, i leave them in D unless i know the lights are a long winded set, anything less than a minute or two i just leave it in gear.

Its not really doing any harm as such its only the oil in the torque converter causing the slight creep you can feel.

Will you start another thread for posters preferences for gearbox servicing or include it here, if here then i use my discretion regarding incl knowledge of the car's likely previous service and use regime and how i use the car to judge as and when i think it should be serviced.

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Fri 27 Nov 2015 14:38

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - John Boy

Will you start another thread for posters preferences for gearbox servicing or include it here?

I'll leave it here, GB. My question above seems to have a very simple answer.

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Fri 27 Nov 2015 15:07

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - John F

My question above seems to have a very simple answer.

As GB says no harm either way, but the 'simple answer' has not yet considered the fuel wasted by braking the 'creep' ; energy thus diverted to raising the temperature of the transmission fluid. For this reason, and also the courtesy of not dazzling folk behind so much, I usually prefer N unless it's very soon to green.

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Fri 27 Nov 2015 15:45

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - craig-pd130

I hired a Jensen Interceptor for a weekend last year, and that crept VERY strongly in D while stationary, needing quite a firm foot on the brake pedal to hold it back. It was certainly easier on my right leg to knock it into neutral at red traffic lights, etc.

I've no idea how much torque a Chrysler 440 V8 puts out at tickover, but there are certainly some very large bits of metal wanging around :-)

As others said, all you're doing is warming up the fluid in the TC and burning a little more fuel that you would in neutral. I've seen arguments that it actually creates more wear to the brake bands etc in the autobox by constantly going from neutral to drive, but it's probably marginal unless you're doing 'neutral drop' take-offs (i.e. holding the engine rpm at 3,000 and dropping it into D from neutral for a fast getaway)

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Fri 27 Nov 2015 21:14

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - hillman

My indi went on a course once for TC gearboxes and one of the questions asked by the audience was whether to select neutral at traffic lights. The answer was that the wear on the mechanism outweighed the saving on fuel.

I always leave the selector in Drive when at traffic lights but select Neutral when held up for a period of time, eg at level crossings, if not stop the engine. The handbrake is quite adequate to hold the car against the torque and I always use it, never sit with my foot on the footbrake.

On my old Wolseley 6/110 there was a seal in the brake servo that used to wear and if you sat with your foot on the footbrake, as SWMBO did, it sucks the brake fluid into the manifold and you experience an increase in the idling speed. It also drains the brake fluid.

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Fri 27 Nov 2015 21:07

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - alan1302

I know some people get annoyed by brake lights in front of them in this scenario, but I don't, so I'm not interested in a discussion on that aspect.

Yes, no discussion is needed - just stop doing it!!!

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Fri 27 Nov 2015 21:42

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - RT

The automatic systems to reduce fuel consumption and emissions only work when foot is on footbrake on many modern cars, eg stop-start and automatic electric handbrake.

If brake lights dazzle, stay further back or go to Specsavers.

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Fri 27 Nov 2015 22:42

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - alan1302

The automatic systems to reduce fuel consumption and emissions only work when foot is on footbrake on many modern cars, eg stop-start and automatic electric handbrake.

If brake lights dazzle, stay further back or go to Specsavers.

Nothing wrong with my eyesight and you can't leave massive gaps to to the car in fron when driving round town.

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Sat 28 Nov 2015 06:52

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - xtrailman

I'm on my first auto, had it about two week, so i'd like to ask why N and not P when at long stay lights?

At the moment i just leave it in drive.

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Sat 28 Nov 2015 07:45

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - Bianconeri

The automatic systems to reduce fuel consumption and emissions only work when foot is on footbrake on many modern cars, eg stop-start and automatic electric handbrake.

If brake lights dazzle, stay further back or go to Specsavers.

Nothing wrong with my eyesight and you can't leave massive gaps to to the car in fron when driving round town.

Got to agree with you Alan, sitting there with footbrake on and lights blazing is just lazy and inconsiderate. Having driven and used probably a hundred different (hire and loan) cars with the daft S&S technology I've never found one that worked differently if the handbrake was applied. It seems intuitive that an auto gearbox in N (disconnected from drive) is doing less than one in D, even to the extent that it could PREVENT S&S from working by adding a slight load to the engine - no facts to back that up, just supposition. Isn't the whole point of DSG type boxes that one 'clutch' is engaged in your current gear and the other in what the car thinks will be your next? Neutral and first (handbrake on) sounds like a lot me hanical stress that first and second (footbrake on).

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Sat 28 Nov 2015 08:38

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - RT

The automatic systems to reduce fuel consumption and emissions only work when foot is on footbrake on many modern cars, eg stop-start and automatic electric handbrake.

If brake lights dazzle, stay further back or go to Specsavers.

Nothing wrong with my eyesight and you can't leave massive gaps to to the car in fron when driving round town.

Well, it works for me - and I'm one of the old geezers with allegedly poor eyesight (not!).

My problem is - the engine stop-start is active and the engine restarts if I use neutral and release the footbrake - so I guess drivers behind have a choice - be dazzled or poisoned by a VW.

Since there's a split between drivers that suffer dazzle and an equal number that don't I'd suggest the issue ISN'T the lights in front.

Edited by RT on 28/11/2015 at 08:41

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Sat 28 Nov 2015 09:15

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - Wackyracer

Nothing wrong with my eyesight and you can't leave massive gaps to to the car in fron when driving round town.

Sounds like it was you behind me the other evening on the way home, So close to my rear bumper in traffic that I doubt a fag paper could have been dropped between our cars.

Never a good idea to be too close to the car in front, they may brake down and you'll have to reverse to get around them, they might roll back into you or you might accidently lurch forward by accident and hit them (which I fear when people pull up soo close to the rear because I've had it happen before).

I love it on congested motorways when the stupid person behind me starts beeping their horn and flashing their lights because the car infront of me has moved a metre forward and I don't bother to move until it's worth while.

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Sat 28 Nov 2015 09:54

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - hillman

"It seems intuitive that an auto gearbox in N (disconnected from drive) is doing less than one in D, even to the extent that it could PREVENT S&S from working by adding a slight load to the engine - no facts to back that up, just supposition. Isn't the whole point of DSG type boxes that one 'clutch' is engaged in your current gear and the other in what the car thinks will be your next? Neutral and first (handbrake on) sounds like a lot me hanical stress that first and second (footbrake on)."

I have no experience of DSG boxes. Pease define S&S. Perhaps someone will start a thread on driving techniques with DSGs ?

It's never a good thing to 'tailgate', not least that you are poisoned by the exhaust gases.

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Sat 28 Nov 2015 11:38

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - Avant

S & S presumably means stop-start (or Shuffle and Stew if you're in a traffic jam).

I haven't tried it on an automatic or DSG - is stop-start activated by pressing the brake pedal or moving the selector into N?

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Sat 28 Nov 2015 12:03

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - RT

S & S presumably means stop-start (or Shuffle and Stew if you're in a traffic jam).

I haven't tried it on an automatic or DSG - is stop-start activated by pressing the brake pedal or moving the selector into N?

My (VW Touareg conventional torque converter autobox) stop-start activates when coming to a stop with footbrake - it then restarts when releasing the footbrake. The parking brake operates automatically but if the footbrake is released the engine restarts.

Selecting neutral has no effect on stop-start on mine.

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Mon 30 Nov 2015 18:05

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - Bianconeri

S & S presumably means stop-start (or Shuffle and Stew if you're in a traffic jam).

I haven't tried it on an automatic or DSG - is stop-start activated by pressing the brake pedal or moving the selector into N?

My (VW Touareg conventional torque converter autobox) stop-start activates when coming to a stop with footbrake - it then restarts when releasing the footbrake. The parking brake operates automatically but if the footbrake is released the engine restarts.

Selecting neutral has no effect on stop-start on mine.

If you take your footoff the footbrake before S&S operates does the engine then stop? I've a feelng that by taking your foot off after the engine has stopped you create a " trigger" to replenish the vacuum in the brake servo and so the engine restarts. Certainly made a Passat do that today but with VW control software who knows?

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Mon 30 Nov 2015 18:12

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - RT

My (VW Touareg conventional torque converter autobox) stop-start activates when coming to a stop with footbrake - it then restarts when releasing the footbrake. The parking brake operates automatically but if the footbrake is released the engine restarts.

Selecting neutral has no effect on stop-start on mine.

If you take your footoff the footbrake before S&S operates does the engine then stop? I've a feelng that by taking your foot off after the engine has stopped you create a " trigger" to replenish the vacuum in the brake servo and so the engine restarts. Certainly made a Passat do that today but with VW control software who knows?

If you release the footbrake, the engine restarts - in expectation of driving off!

If you release the footbrake before the engine stops it just keeps going.

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Sat 28 Nov 2015 12:05

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - Bianconeri

Yes, by "S&S" I meant Stop and Start but too often they are Stop And Fail to Start.

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Sat 28 Nov 2015 23:48

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - alan1302

Nothing wrong with my eyesight and you can't leave massive gaps to to the car in fron when driving round town.

Sounds like it was you behind me the other evening on the way home, So close to my rear bumper in traffic that I doubt a fag paper could have been dropped between our cars.

Never a good idea to be too close to the car in front, they may brake down and you'll have to reverse to get around them, they might roll back into you or you might accidently lurch forward by accident and hit them (which I fear when people pull up soo close to the rear because I've had it happen before).

I love it on congested motorways when the stupid person behind me starts beeping their horn and flashing their lights because the car infront of me has moved a metre forward and I don't bother to move until it's worth while.

Obviosuly not me as I'd not have been too close to you - thankfully I know how to drive properly!

Anyone that stop and just keeps their foot on the foot brake is doing it wrong though if it's for more than a few seconds. If the car is going to be stopped any longer then the hand brake should be applied. Partly so that the person behind doesn't just have to stare at a brigh red light but mainly so if a car comes up from behind and doesn't stop for any reason there is less chance that your car will roll forward into the car in front when your foot slips off the brake pedal or if at traffic lights you may roll forward into the crossing traffic.

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Sun 29 Nov 2015 00:07

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - Vitesse6

Advice from a traffic officer was to always use your handbrake when stopped at lights etc as if a car runs in the back of you there will be two skidmarks on the road which proves you were stationary. He went on to say that it was something they looked for as evidence in such cases.

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Sun 29 Nov 2015 07:50

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - RT

Advice from a traffic officer was to always use your handbrake when stopped at lights etc as if a car runs in the back of you there will be two skidmarks on the road which proves you were stationary. He went on to say that it was something they looked for as evidence in such cases.

In those circumstances, you'd leave skid marks whether it was parking brake or footbrake - in fact you'd leave 4 skid marks rather than 2 if footbrake is applied.

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Sun 29 Nov 2015 20:50

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - alan1302

Advice from a traffic officer was to always use your handbrake when stopped at lights etc as if a car runs in the back of you there will be two skidmarks on the road which proves you were stationary. He went on to say that it was something they looked for as evidence in such cases.

In those circumstances, you'd leave skid marks whether it was parking brake or footbrake - in fact you'd leave 4 skid marks rather than 2 if footbrake is applied.

Unless the jolt from behind caused your foot to come off the brake and you just smash into the cars crossing the road in fron of you...

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Mon 30 Nov 2015 18:56

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - madf

Advice from a traffic officer was to always use your handbrake when stopped at lights etc as if a car runs in the back of you there will be two skidmarks on the road which proves you were stationary. He went on to say that it was something they looked for as evidence in such cases.

In those circumstances, you'd leave skid marks whether it was parking brake or footbrake - in fact you'd leave 4 skid marks rather than 2 if footbrake is applied.

Unless the jolt from behind caused your foot to come off the brake and you just smash into the cars crossing the road in fron of you...

I have been in a car that was rear ended as a passenger. The jolt was huge.. Foot on brake is not safe.

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Tue 1 Dec 2015 12:47

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - SteVee

I'd always use the parking brake + neutral if pedestrians are walking past the car (I prefer a conventional handbrake).

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Tue 1 Dec 2015 17:20

Waiting with a TC automatic gearbox - slkfanboy

The reason that Auto's have N gear next to the Drive position is so that it's quick the select at traffic lights. Therefore hand-brake on and in N is the safe/correct way to drive.

VW have always forced you to do it the VW way, with fancy and confusing restrictions. Like to manual release my old passet's elect. handbreak required the car in N with foot on the break other to put the clutch down and then press the button in the far of corner of the car. Ok until you try a hill start! On my Jag it just click the handbreak button!

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