MG TF - Coolant change

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Fri 15 Nov 2013 19:42
MG TF - Coolant change - murphybarnes
Having just taken ownership of an MG TF, I need to keep an eye on the coolant religiously to avoid HGF. I am not convinced that the coolant in the tank is O.A.T, so would therefore like to drain and flush it and refill.
Time and hours of daylight are a problem right now so how much would a garage charge for this, roughly?
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Fri 15 Nov 2013 20:20
MG TF - Coolant change - Cyd
hours of daylight are a problem right now

A few years ago, a chap called Edison invented something called the light bulb. These days we can connect such a device to the electricity supply via something called a socket and plug. Most homes have these now.

But seriously, no garage will ever do as good a job as you can yourself:
drain, flush and refill with water and cleaner
run for a few days before the freezing weather sets in
drain and flush twice
refill with coolant.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325ML-WYNNS-COOLING-SYSTEM-FLUS...2

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Fri 15 Nov 2013 21:24
MG TF - Coolant change - madf

Err

I recommend you read the following VERY carefully... bleeding is NOT easy..http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=333315

If you rely on a garag who do not know what they are doing it will cost you twice: once to do it and then a lot more to repair the resulting damage when it overheats...

Edited by madf on 15/11/2013 at 21:28

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Fri 15 Nov 2013 21:33
MG TF - Coolant change - John Boy

MG TF is obvious, HGF I guessed, but what is O.A.T?

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Fri 15 Nov 2013 21:43
MG TF - Coolant change - alan1302

MG TF is obvious, HGF I guessed, but what is O.A.T?

Taken from Halfords:

  • Silicate free, organic acid technology (OAT) for superior engine protection

Think it just refers to the type of coolant used and think all modern cars use the OAT type.

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Fri 15 Nov 2013 22:04
MG TF - Coolant change - John Boy

Thanks, Alan. I wouldn't have guessed in a million years.

Brilliant link there from Madf!

Edited by John Boy on 15/11/2013 at 22:08

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Sat 16 Nov 2013 09:38
MG TF - Coolant change - Collos25

Check with a gauge if it is giving full protection against frost then I would leave well alone,I would be more concerned with the state of the manifold "O" rings if they have never been replaced.

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Sat 16 Nov 2013 10:45
MG TF - Coolant change - Wackyracer

Check with a gauge if it is giving full protection against frost then I would leave well alone

The problem is that frost protection is only half of a coolants job. The main all year round job of coolant is corrosion control and this can lead to failed headgaskets and disolved water pump impellors etc.etc. If it isn't replaced on time. For Red OAT coolants the interval is 5 years.

Edited by Wackyracer on 16/11/2013 at 10:58

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Sat 16 Nov 2013 11:18
MG TF - Coolant change - Avant

The best answer to this problem is surely to choose an MX-5.

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Sat 16 Nov 2013 11:42
MG TF - Coolant change - Wackyracer

The best answer to this problem is surely to choose an MX-5.

It's hard to argue with that :-) It is top of my list for a small fun car.

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Sat 16 Nov 2013 15:38
MG TF - Coolant change - Collos25

The best answer to this problem is surely to choose an MX-5.

I would agree with that well intentioned the manufacture of the TF was it was in reality it was a bit of a botch job.

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Sat 16 Nov 2013 17:59
MG TF - Coolant change - injection doc
I don't recommend changing the coolant unless you have the factory fill technical sheet and a vacuum fill unit.

These really suffer with air locks something chronic and a vacuum fill unit had to be devised especially for this model by MG !

First and most important is to check the condition of the front to rear coolant pipes because if the are the original metal ones they will be rotten and normally the coolant seeps out and causes the drop in coolant and the HG blows !
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Sat 16 Nov 2013 18:19
MG TF - Coolant change - Collos25

Very good advice put much better than myself.

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Sun 17 Nov 2013 17:23
MG TF - Coolant change - murphybarnes
The coolant pipes were replaced in May by the previous owner at his local garage. This would have required a full coolant change obviously. Only O.A.T should be used as as he seemed to be an 'enthusiast' I would of assumed he would of stipulated this. Thing is the coolant in the expansion tank neither smells of much or seems to have much glow about it.
I could do it myself, but as the first reply mentioned, staggeringly I must be the only house in the UK not to have a garage or effing light bulbs.
Just wondered if any one knew of a ball park figure or any MG friendly garages in or around Aberdeen.
Thanks.
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Mon 18 Nov 2013 18:51
MG TF - Coolant change - John F

I wouldn't change it. Once the oxygen held in the coolant has been used up it won't corrode any more, so why introduce fresh oxygen? I have added to the coolant in my 33yr old TR7 only twice - once when a stone pierced the radiator and once when I had to change a leaky water pump, and I tried to save and use as much of the original fluid as possible. Neither pipes nor heater matrix have leaked and the head has never been off. Those who change coolant ever few years are actually encouraging corrosion which might well cause problems as soon as 12yrs if not earlier.

If you are worried about its antifreeze properties, just suck out a sample and put it in your freezer to check it. [it helps to know the temperature of your freezer].

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Tue 19 Nov 2013 09:43
MG TF - Coolant change - madf

Using experience of a 30 year old car - and a pretty low tech one at that - to specify what is required for modern engines and coolants - and fgiving advice in direct contradiction to manufacturers' recommendations is :

either perverse and illogical

or

just stoopid!:-)

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Tue 19 Nov 2013 10:59
MG TF - Coolant change - Wackyracer

It does seem rather illogical to me madf.

One thing that often makes me wonder is some vehicle manufacturers list 10 years as the coolant change interval and yet I have not found a coolant manufacturer that sells a product with a working life of longer than 5 years.

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Tue 19 Nov 2013 11:47
MG TF - Coolant change - madf

Toyota Long Life Coolant - OAT 10 year life.

Changed my Yaris coolant after 10 years using the above. Original coolant looked as new..

http://www.elamotors.com.pg/icms_docs/75967_Genuine_Long_Life_Coolant.pdf

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Tue 19 Nov 2013 16:49
MG TF - Coolant change - John F

Toyota Long Life Coolant - OAT 10 year life.

Changed my Yaris coolant after 10 years using the above. Original coolant looked as new..

.....and has probably used up what little corrosive oxygen it had in it. It would probably have lasted the life of the car. I have never changed nor had to top up the pink fluid in my 15+yr old Audi in the 10+ yrs I have owned it and I have no intention of doing so.

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Sun 24 Nov 2013 19:27
MG TF - Coolant change - Wackyracer

Toyota Long Life Coolant - OAT 10 year life.

Changed my Yaris coolant after 10 years using the above. Original coolant looked as new..

http://www.elamotors.com.pg/icms_docs/75967_Genuine_Long_Life_Coolant.pdf

Yes, I have seen car manufacturers ( Toyota and Ford) claim their self branded coolants last 10 years but, I have yet to find a coolant manufacturer that claims it to last longer than 5 years. Excluding that waterless stuff that has been discussed before.

It reminds me of 'filled for life' gearboxes. Which actually last alot longer if you do change the oil.

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Tue 19 Nov 2013 16:55
MG TF - Coolant change - John F

One thing that often makes me wonder is some vehicle manufacturers list 10 years as the coolant change interval and yet I have not found a coolant manufacturer that sells a product with a working life of longer than 5 years.

How exactly does it stop 'working'? Does the manufacturer claim a metamorphosis occurs which results in pipe corrosion and head gasket failure after 5yrs and 6months? Please explain.

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Tue 19 Nov 2013 16:43
MG TF - Coolant change - John F

Using experience of a 30 year old car - and a pretty low tech one at that - to specify what is required for modern engines and coolants - and fgiving advice in direct contradiction to manufacturers' recommendations is :

either perverse and illogical

or

just stoopid!:-)

Come come, madf, you are not usually rude! Cooling a car engine IS low tech - even 2013 McLarens and Bentleys just have fluid pumped around the engine and radiator.

By all means proffer a scientific argument to counter my 'perverse' but not illogical assertion. Until you can do so I shall continue to do as I think best. Although it is a long time since I passed the exam for my long since lapsed MENSA membership I am not yet senile or 'stoopid' :-(

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Tue 19 Nov 2013 17:27
MG TF - Coolant change - madf

Your argument is based on 40 year old designs.

The world has changed a lot since then...Low fill cooling systems, aluminium radiators, lots of clever ways to ensure quick warm up.s

I regret appearing rude but if tyou think your expertise based on a 40 year design is relevant, perhaps you might like to tick all the above changes that apply to you car .. None do.

On the basis of your argument, non synthetic oils and changes every 3,000 miles are adequate for moidern engines.... I assume you would not make that argument?

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Tue 19 Nov 2013 17:32
MG TF - Coolant change - RT

Your argument is based on 40 year old designs.

The world has changed a lot since then...Low fill cooling systems, aluminium radiators, lots of clever ways to ensure quick warm up.s

I regret appearing rude but if tyou think your expertise based on a 40 year design is relevant, perhaps you might like to tick all the above changes that apply to you car .. None do.

On the basis of your argument, non synthetic oils and changes every 3,000 miles are adequate for moidern engines.... I assume you would not make that argument?

You're not wrong, Madf, but Americans still use mineral oil every 3,000 miles on modern engines !

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Wed 20 Nov 2013 11:56
MG TF - Coolant change - John F

Your argument is based on 40 year old designs.

No it isn't. My argument is based on scientific knowledge. Design doesn't come into it. So far, my well reasoned masterly inactivity concerning coolant change has not been proved wrong.

Like so many recommendations concerning 'servicing', it is in the interests of the motor trade to recommend as much work as they can get away with. I guess lots of Focus owners have been expensively persuaded to change their cam belts well before the manufacturer's 10yr/100,000m stipulation and many Aunt Minnies to have their modern long life oil changed annually after only 3000 miles or so.

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Fri 22 Nov 2013 19:55
MG TF - Coolant change - murphybarnes
Yeah. Whatever. MG in Stirling will do it for £85.
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Fri 22 Nov 2013 20:40
MG TF - Coolant change - nortones2

Oxygen is one factor in corrosion. But it exists in the head space of the tank, so is never truly absent, especially in a tiny system like the Rover where de-aeration is important (but not widely understood) and of course, leaks mean air enters the system. Other corrosion sources are galvanic and even electrolytic (stray currents from poor earthing) requiring passivation. I don't know what the life of a coolant inhiitor is, but would be loathe to let the stuff linger too long! I'm no expert. Scientific knowledge: patchy but not absent, is all I can claim.

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Sun 24 Nov 2013 16:33
MG TF - Coolant change - John F

Oxygen is one factor in corrosion. But it exists in the head space of the tank, so is never truly absent

True, but in a sealed system it could be argued that if/when it gets used up it is not replaced because with modern translucent tanks one can check the level without removing the cap. So I don't. Never had to top up either of our two modern [13 and 15yr old] cars.

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Fri 22 Nov 2013 21:02
MG TF - Coolant change - Wackyracer
Yeah. Whatever. MG in Stirling will do it for £85.

That sounds a fair enough price if it includes the coolant.

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