No V5 at auction

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Sat 7 Sep 2013 00:41
No V5 at auction - Rich_B

Answers to the following much appreciated ..................

1. If I buy a car at auction with no V5 and no tax can I drive it directly to my premises (without trade plates) to store until the V5 arrives or is this illegal?

2. Can an untaxed car be taxed by the dealer whilst in the trade i.e. between owners, or must it have a registered owner before it can be taxed?

Many thanks

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Sat 7 Sep 2013 08:06
No V5 at auction - Dwight Van Driver

1. No V5 is a reason to consider walkaway.

2. Offence of using a vehicle without an Excise Licence and fail to display if driven away as described except where a brand new car is involved in which case 14 days grace given. Loophole is to book a MOT, drive to test and afterwards home.

3. Second hand cars from certain dealers can be taxed by them providing the intended purchaser supplies them with a Cert of Insurance.

dvd

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Sat 7 Sep 2013 09:40
No V5 at auction - Rich_B

Thanks for the response, could you please answer the following............

1. Apart from the fact that the vehicle cannot be retailed until the V5 arrives, what other reason is the lack of a V5 cause to consider walking away?

2. The loophole you have decribed in point 2 above, does this still apply where no V5 is present?

3. Can a car not be taxed by a dealer using his own trade insurance where there is no prospective buyer?

Many thanks

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Sat 7 Sep 2013 10:08
No V5 at auction - Simon

Do you have trade insurance? If so why not just get a set of trade plates, it will make life so much simpler.

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Sat 7 Sep 2013 10:45
No V5 at auction - Rich_B

Do you have trade insurance? If so why not just get a set of trade plates, it will make life so much simpler.

I do have trade insurance but I have been advised to avoid trade plates as they are 'allegedly' more hassle than they are worth and very difficult to obtain. Is this incorrect?

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Sat 7 Sep 2013 13:13
No V5 at auction - tony g
DVD
(3. Second hand cars from certain dealers can be taxed by them providing the intended purchaser supplies them with a Cert of Insurance.)

Hi DVD ,a dealer can use his own any car certificate of insurance and the V5 C2 to tax a car ,I do it regularly for the convenience of my buyers .

Trade plates are no hassle at all , just the opposite ,you don't even have to show your trade insurance to get them ,just make a declaration that you are car trading to get them .The cost is about £10 for the plates plus the cost of a years road tax .
They should only be used if your involved in car dealing activities at that time and are not supposed to be used for personal use ,but most car dealers do .
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Sat 7 Sep 2013 15:19
No V5 at auction - Simon
The rules and regs regarding the use of Trade Plates is more complex and restricted than you would believe, but like tony g says it is rarely enforced and exploited by those who have them.
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Sat 7 Sep 2013 16:40
No V5 at auction - Dwight Van Driver

Rich b

With no V5 how does one check VIN number and details of previous owner and number?. One might be buying a cloned/ringer car.

A vehicle is exempt from tax and MOT whilst being used on a road proceeding to or from a PRE BOOKED Mot.

Tony g

Yes appreciate that. Was just mentioning my experiences when buying second hand and eacxh time they wanted my Insurance details so that they could tax it. Did not consider an outlet would santion idle money by taxing it on their Insurance and leaving vehicle unused on the forecourt.

dvd

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Sat 7 Sep 2013 16:50
No V5 at auction - Simon

I'm going to assume that the auction house has to take some responsibility for providing correct info about the car and guarantee that the car is legitimate to some degree.

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Sat 7 Sep 2013 18:47
No V5 at auction - pd

Lots of cars have no V5 at auction - this is usually because they have had a private plate removed. With the DLVA taking ages to do them at the moment there are more than usual.

If you're trading cars and buying at auction just get some trade plates. It is just endless hassle without them and you'll eventually get caught out and it will end up costing you more than just getting the plates in the first place.

You are restricted on their use - you can use them for any legitimate trade use you like including delivering cars, collecting cars, test drives, taking to another place of trade (e.g. a garage to fix something or bodyshop). What you shouldn't use them for is popping to Tescos or droppping the kids off at school. It is pretty obvious and common sense what you can and can't use them for.

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Sat 7 Sep 2013 18:50
No V5 at auction - pd

Rich b

With no V5 how does one check VIN number and details of previous owner and number?. One might be buying a cloned/ringer car.


Any decent auction house will check this as they have access to the DVLA info directly without looking at the V5.

You don't get to see the V5 until you've paid for it anyway at any auction.

No sensible dealer will tax a stock car (that is why you do have trade plates) but many. myself included, will tax a car for a customer prior to collection as a service to then allowing them to drive off legally.

Edited by pd on 07/09/2013 at 18:52

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Sun 8 Sep 2013 11:05
No V5 at auction - Rich_B

Thanks to all who posted a response. I learnt a lot from this thread.

I've dealt with buying and selling stock for years but not in the motor industry so I'm just trying to identify the complexities of this business to avoid making any novice mistakes.

So from the above I can conclude ....................

1. Get trade plates, they simplify the entire process and and, contrary to what I had been told, are not difficult to obtain.

2. Buying a vehicle without a V5 from auction is not really all that risky, there is just the issue of being unable to sell the vehicle until the new V5 arrives.

3. As a dealer I can tax any stock car using my trader's insurance as long as I have the V5.

If somebody could confirm that the three statements above are correct that would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

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Sun 8 Sep 2013 20:52
No V5 at auction - tony g
2 ,not really correct ,I've sold a few cars without the v5 ,show the customer a clear HPI report and a VOSA mileage check ,apply at the same time for a new v5 ,that will cost you £25 but its worth it to achieve a sale .

3 Its the v5 c2 that you need and use , not the whole v5 ,putting your name on the v5 c2 doesn't register the car in your name ,give the c2 after you tax the car to the customer .

Buying cars from auctions isn't guaranteed to make you a profit ,the additional fees that auctions like bca charge ,make it hard to sell on at a profit .
Use autotrader to see what the likely selling price of a car would be ,before you pay an inflated price at auction .
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Tue 10 Sep 2013 10:25
No V5 at auction - pd

Auction fees are not cheap. If you plan to do a bit of quiet trading you need to be buying 12 cars from BCA & Manheim each year to get onto the business fee structure. To get the best fees from BCA you need to buy 100 cars in 12 months. Other auctions houses, e.g. Aston Barclay are a bit more flexible.

Basically, with BCA you need at least a Gold Card to get proper access to their website, online bidding etc. and the (slightly) less horrendous rates. With Manheim you need at least a National Buyers Account. Anything less than this and you will be treated pretty much on a par with a private buyer.

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Tue 10 Sep 2013 15:32
No V5 at auction - daveyK_UK
Beaware of the latest BCA scam;
I am not sure if it applys to Trade/Account buyers.

They now charge £51 for the BCA sssured check - its no more than a bloke with a clip board checking the fuel and fluid levels, writing down the tyre tread findings and ticking if it starts.

Mainheim also run this scam, but theres costs only £36.
Bargain.

There are numerous get out clauses for the auction house, as I have recently seen a friend buy from mainheim with the 'precheck' only to find the power sterring fluid level empty not 'ok' as had ben ticked.
Mainheim did everything to remove their liability and in the end refused to help.
New power steering rack was the solution.

BTW There is no warning at the auction house or online of the extra charge for the BCA assured or Mainheim vehicle check fee.

Do traders also got lumbered with this costs?
Its noticalb,e they are very picky on which vehicles thry give the treatment to - anything which looks perfect with good history gets the assured treatment.
The no serivce history, high mileage, newish diesel car rubbish is never worthy of such a pre-check.
I wonder why?


Just another £51 to add on to your £26 to post your V5 to the DVLA and the ever increasing buyers fees.

Why buy at auction?
Or rather, why buy at BCA or Mainheim?

Edited by daveyK_UK on 10/09/2013 at 15:34

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Tue 10 Sep 2013 17:19
No V5 at auction - tony g
Absolutely agree with the above ,I would say its impossible for a low volume trader or a private buyer to buy a car from BCA etc at a sensible price .

I would advice buying from a smaller independent auction ,that doesn't charge the ludicrous add ons . Or alternatively buy from e bays auctions ,the advantage with e bay is you can inspect and test drive the cars ,check the service history and do the bidding from your armchair . A much better prospect than a freezing cold auction hall .
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