SMMT have just released its new car sales figures for October.
Some big sales declines for certain manufacturers. The worst affected include:
Alfa down 42.95 per cent
Aston Martin down 32.93 per cent
Bentley down 47.59 per cent
Chrysler down 75.75 per cent
Daihatsu down 42.20 per cent
Honda down 35.37 per cent
Jeep down 62.58 per cent
Land Rover down 57.92 per cent
Lexus down 45.14 per cent
Mercedes down 31.84 per cent
Mini down 40.13 per cent
Mitsubishi down 47.29 per cent
Peugeot down 38.29 per cent
Porsche down 38.29 per cent
Renault down 53.74 per cent
Saab down 36.66 per cent
Smart down 40.28 per cent
I am surprised at the steep sales declines seen at Honda, Mini, Peugeot and Renault as I thought these firms made economical vehicles which are supposed to be in tune with the times.
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I forgot to add that the overall sales decline for October was 23 per cent.
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Yes, same applies to Smart and MINI, both down 40%, whereas Merc down 'only' 32%, Aston down 'only' 33%.
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Chrysler down 75%. Crikey.
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>>sales decline for October was 23.0 %.
And the fact that the crunch is getting tighter is indicated by the fact that:
Sept was down 21.2% on Sept last year,
Aug was down 18.6% on Aug last year
July was down 13.0% on July last year
June was down 6.1% on June last year
May was down 3.5% on May last year
The thing that interested me is that in Sept, guess who were the fourth best selling marque behind Ford, Vauxhall and VW?
BMW.
And perhaps even more interestingly, they are in 5th place in the year to date.
Edited by Honestjohn on 06/11/2008 at 12:08
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BoE rate is now 3%!!!
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Leyland Trucks to make just over 100 redundant (announced last week)
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BoE rate is now 3%!!!
That's a good indication of the state of the economy, but don't expect to be able to get a loan more cheaply. The actual retail cost of borrowing will continue to rise, as lenders try to cover the cost of bad debts
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A member of a work colleagues' family works for BMW. When you hit a certain job level you get a new BMW every 4 months, but currently BMW are apparently not making any money in the UK so peeps will only get a new BMW every 9 months now.
I know this is industry practice as someone else I know works for Peugeot and they get a new car every 6 months.
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According to The Independent (today's online edition) even the successful Mini plants at Oxford and Swindon are not immune from the cutbacks.
Normally both plants would close for two weeks over the Xmas/New Year period but this year the shutdown is extended to four weeks.
Meanwhile, another Renault dealer has closed. Website www.talkingmotors.co.uk has just reported that the Walker Renault dealership in Stourbridge has shut down. However it appears the firm's servicing department remains trading.
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reported that the Walker Renault dealership in Stourbridge has shut down. However it appears the firm's servicing department remains trading.
Cynic might say
What does that say abouts Renfaults? - cannot sell them and make a profit buy plenty repair work!!!
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but currently BMW are apparently not making any money in the UK so peeps will only get >> a new BMW every 9 months now.
I would have thought they'd change more frequently, not less, to keep turning over the cars.
Neighbour is retired Vauxhall manager and gets a new car every 4mths or so.
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I've never understood why anyone would want a new car every four or six months. You've just loosened the engine up, the seats have contoured to you back and bum, any teething problems have been sorted and then you have to start the whole process all over again.
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>> but currently BMW ... peeps will only get a new BMW every 9 months now.
I would have thought they'd change more frequently, not less, to keep turning over the cars.
Is it not the case that these cars are "given" to staff so that they can then be sold on as nearly new "demo" car under 6 months old?
Now that the market has stalled, the Dealer will not want to add to his dead 2nd hand stock and on top of that be faced with the cost of getting another brand new one for the staff.
Until the turnover improves, they will be trying to cut down their "inventory".
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Now that the market has stalled the Dealer will not want to add to his dead 2nd hand stock
These are not dealers - this is for people who work directly for the manufacturer.
I got my Mercedes like this - it was used for 5mths/6K miles by an MB manager and I bought it 3yrs ago at a third less than new price (which was a good deal then).
Certainly my neighbour with the Vauxhall thinks it's fantastic - he literally only has the put fuel in the car and check the levels now and again, wash it a few times and then it goes back and he gets a new one. Would do me!
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Presumably as the glass palace main dealers fall over and their workshops close the knock-on effect will hit the parts manufacturers quickly. There won't be so much of this '10,000 miles so it's new discs and pads sir' nonsense.
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>>That's a good indication of the state of the economy, but don't expect to be able to get a loan more cheaply. The actual retail cost of borrowing will continue to rise, as lenders try to cover the cost of bad debts <<
Which is a good example of how impotent this government is. It cannot force the banks to really do anything even when they own a big slice of them.
The other thing the government can do though is reduce VED or at least stop the increases they have planned. Let's see how serious they are about helping the hard working families in the pre-budget report or if they will actually do nothing but cry foul when the banks do not pass on the reduction.
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I believe the best way to describe the latest madness is to visualize it as pushing on the reins.
The BoE has just shown the world that it has lost it's one control over the UK economy.
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The Government - as usual - talks with forked togue. On the one hand it says it wants lenders not to repossess homes too quickly... but one of the most ruthless repossessors is: Government owned Northern Rock. You could not make it up...
I am more and more reminded of 1971-74 : events are different of course and people are more indebted.. and the financial system then was stronger so I expect the stock market to fall at least as much as it did then: 70%...
The BOE lost the plot 9 months ago and made things worse. And then has done too little too late. 1.5% smacks of panic.
Expect lots more very bad news to come.
Edited by madf on 06/11/2008 at 18:34
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Which is a good example of how impotent this government is. It cannot force the banks to really do anything even when they own a big slice of them.
So you'd like the government to force the banks to charge interest rates which don't generate enough profit to cover the mounting cost of bad debts. Are you prepared to pay more tax increases to cover the cost of the extra cash injections required to bail out the banks again?
It's one of the basic rules of interest-based lending: if the risk of default goes up, so does the interest rate. Part of the reason we got into this mess was that the banks were under-pricing risk.
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That is not my point NowWheels, my point is that the Prime Minister is telling the banks they should be passing on the rate cuts and they are clearly ignoring his comments and that is even after we have gained control. It is about the government being completely impotent to managing it's way out of a situation it created. My view of bad debt is that more of the banks should have been allowed to collapse like any other company would have done for such poor business management. The subject of paying more tax is a no-brainer anyway. We WILL all be paying allot more tax soon to pay for the first bail out. Borrowing is spiralling out of control and if you listen to the Chariman of the Banking Committee - a Labour MP on R5 live tonight when questioned about the impact of the rate cut would have on savers, his response was that it is not about getting people to save, it's about people borrowing more so they can spend - and here's me thinking that is what got us into this mess.
The government took control of the Banking sector away from the BoE when it gave them independence - you know the independence where the Chancellor appoints MPC members and as a result we are in a right mess because they all failed in the basic laws of banking. You lend no more than you have saved in deposits. My point then is that even with the PANIC measures from the BoE made today the banks will not reduce rates to stimulate the economy and we will continue to be in a mess and pay heavily for it over the coming 3-5 years.
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I really don't get this. (And here I might be repeating a previous post to an extent)
I can see the point that lower interest rates should make borrowing easier which might stimulate the economy.
However,
1. Wasn't it the case that "easy credit" got us into this situation in the first place - sub-prime mortgages, billions of pounds worth of creditcard debt etc?
2. Given the above, what is the point of penalising savers by low interest rates (and isn't it through these savings that investment originates?) and "benefitting" those with debts? It's a bit like saying to me - "you drive too much, you drink too much wine and smoke too many cigars so, in order to cure you of these bad habits we will reduce the price of all of them by 30% - that should do it - oh and here's a few thousand quid to help your cure"
3. Won't reducing interest cause a (further) flight from the pound, and since we don't seem to manufacture much, we will be putting more money in peoples pockets to spend on goods produced abroad hence increasing the deficit causing further flight from the pound and increasing our problems?
4. The banks have apparently "lost" £118 billion/trillion/ (?) pounds this year. Now as far as I know, money can't be "lost" - someone has got it and someone is spending it and it must therefore end up in someones bank account. So where is this "lost" money? And if it is in bank accounts, why can't the banks lend it out again - someones spending is someone else's income isn't it? Someones saving is some bank's money to lend??
5. If the banks have lent so much to "sub-prime" mortgages, they have swapped money for some rubbishy shacks in the USA. This presumeably means that there are lots of people who now have lots of money instead of a shack. What do they do with this money? Spend it or save it - so it goes to a bank one way or another
5. Gordon and Alistair darling have apparently given the banks the equivalent of £19000 for each person in the UK in their "bailout" of the banks. Now here's an idea - why didn't they give each of us £19000 to spend as we wish? Would that have not ended up in the banks? I could have bought my wife the new car she craves, she would have stashed hers away in the bank. Either way it ends up in a bank. As it is, the banks have the money, they still won't lend it - the same could have been done but wife would have had a new car, wife would have had new car and £19000 in bank earning interest.
Sorry for long post, only vaguely related to motoring - bad day at work!!
Phil
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Oh, and by the way, a pound to a penny that savings interest rates go down tomorrow and mortgage/creditcard/overdraft rates don't go down for a few weeks if at all.
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I was minded to take off and fly at 37,000 feet - hoping to spot a gleam of bone, but I can`t, I`ve had too much pudding....
Its tough being a vulture sometimes....
Edited by oilrag on 06/11/2008 at 20:03
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General Motors third quarter figures are out tomorrow, and if this report on CNN is anything to go by they won't make pretty reading -
tinyurl.com/6z9lrz
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Oh and by the way a pound to a penny that savings interest rates go down tomorrow and mortgage/creditcard/overdraft rates don't go down for a few weeks if at all.
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Well, you got the first bit right, but not the second.
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4. The banks have apparently "lost" £118 billion/trillion/ (?) pounds this year. Now as far as I know, money can't be "lost" - someone has got it and someone is spending it and it must therefore end up in someones bank account.
China, India, Germany, Middle East mainly.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_deficit
"Strong GDP growth economies such as the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and Hong Kong run consistent trade deficits, as well as poorer countries also experiencing a lot of investment.
Developed nations such as Canada, Japan, and Germany typically run trade surpluses. China also has a trade surplus[citation needed]. A higher savings rate generally corresponds with a trade surplus. "
... This presumeably means that there are lots of people who now have lots of money instead of a shack.
It was the same £10 note that was going around and around, making everyone think they were £10 richer when it passed through their hands. The World's economy is founded on a big lie. In fact there is only one real £10 note in the whole world, the rest are just fakes. ;-)
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"there is only one real £10 note in the whole world, the rest are just fakes. ;-)"
"Bad money drives out good" - Gresham's Law or something - that one real £10 note is long gone!!
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reducing interest rates has to be to reduce the cost of working capital to business rather than anything to do with savings/mortgages.
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"Bad money drives out good" - Gresham's Law or something - that one real £10 note is long gone!!
And I thought you did not know the answer to the question you had asked!
Gresham's Law is what has been going on: www.fff.org/comment/com0306q.asp
?Bad Money Drives Out Good?
by Charles Adams, June 25, 2003
"This is what has been called Gresham?s Law. It was formulated by Sir Thomas Gresham to explain to Queen Elizabeth I what was happening to the English shilling. Her father, Henry VIII, had been adulterating the English shilling, the basic coin of the realm, by replacing 40 percent of the silver in the coin with base metals ? a clever way, so he thought, to increase the government?s income without raising taxes. It was, in short, a sneaky devaluation device; ...
Queen Elizabeth realized that Gresham was right and formulated a bold plan to restore the shilling with pure silver. .... The English shilling became the most sought-after coinage in international commerce and put Britain on the road to become the superpower of the world for centuries to come. For the next 300 years it was the basis for long-term prosperity, economic stability, the expansion of trade and industry, the development of natural resources, and the founding of a colonial empire stretching over the globe ? so that the sun never set on the British Empire ....
Elizabeth?s fiscal policy did not come easy, .... , she had to borrow heavily from the City of Antwerp to finance the cost of the new shillings.
....
the Romans, like Henry VIII, started putting copper in the once-pure drachma, now called a denarius. It was so easy, but, again, the Roman fiscal authorities ? like all fiscal authorities since the beginning of time ? did not fool anybody with their debased coinage. Today would be an exception, with the whiz-kids at the U.S. Treasury having debased U.S. coinage and currency far beyond anything Henry VIII had done in England, and the frightening thing is that no one said a word.
.....
The United States has been on a policy of phony money for only 70 years; it took the Romans a few hundred years for their fiscal stack of cards to collapse, so we can anticipate a long decline in value until the inevitable collapse, maybe two or even three centuries hence. .... "
Except that it has happened, not in two centuries, but within 5 years of the above article having been written.
Edited by jbif on 06/11/2008 at 21:24
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Well I will buy gold: but not yet..
We need deflation first and then inflation...
Batten down the hatches time and treat politicians with the contempt they deserve.
The BOE have lost the plot - about 6 months ago and are now panicking when they see the mess we are heading into: they and the FSA should be jailed for incompetent recklessness. Like bank Directors.. In the US they will be. .
I am seriously expecting to see the FTSE - currently above 4000 - to be below 2000 by 2010.
And all those insurers who invest in equities - and are solvent now - will be insolvent.
Properly. Not like 2002-3 - they were only practising.
As for company pensions :-(
Edited by madf on 06/11/2008 at 21:47
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Well I will buy gold: but not yet..
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Why not now - surely the pound is going to collapse? As the carry trade unwinds, won't the dollar fall make moving into gold dearer?
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"a bold plan to restore the shilling with pure silver"
jbif,
I may be wrong, but I think the silver shilling existed until relatively recently. I have a few somewhere which my grandparents gave as "bonus" birthday and christmas presents (or were they in the Christmas pudding? - that rings a bell, that us kids always found them and none of the adults did - this would be in the 1950s/early '60s) when we wre kids. Must look them out but I seem to remember that they had 1930s dates on them and were well worn.
Not occurred to me before but maybe it is an example of Greshams law - they took the silver shillings (or were they sixpences??) out of circulation, saved them and presumably used "debased" shillings or sixpences for everyday spending.
Or maybe I'm talking rubbish??!!
Regards
Phil
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The silver sixpence was popped into Christmas pud.
Silver shillings and Silver Florins ( two bob) were in circulation in small numbers until those Texas bros tried to command the silver supply.
"Beginning in the early 1970s, Hunt and his brother William Herbert Hunt began accumulating large amounts of silver. By 1979, they had nearly cornered the global market. In the last nine months of 1979 the brothers earned an estimated $2 billion to $4 billion in silver speculation, with estimated silver holdings of 100 million oz,"
The silver price went up and the coins were worth more than face value so the got melted. Sadly lots and lots of silver items also got melted down.
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I think people are beginning to realise that the whole international financial system is, as a concept, not unlike religion. You have to make a gigantic leap of faith to believe in either of them.
If, like me, you believe that - a, there is no basis for religion; and - b, there is no real money any more, just computer-generated figures, you can't have any faith in either.
So you begin to feel that the world is becoming a rather scary place...
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> a concept
banking has always been based on the fact that there is never enough ready cash on deposit to pay out all the depositors if they asked for it back. The fear of all bankers is queues of people outside the door - the famous "run on a bank"
what we have is , in effect, a run on the global finance system - which uses the same principals as banks - ie money is never left lying around doing "nothing"
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The silver sixpence was popped into Christmas pud.
In my younger days it was a silver thrupenny bit. tinyurl.com/62pk9l
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The silver shilling and indeed florin (two shillings of the under 40s) were in circulation until the introduction of decimal money. The traditional christmas pud coin was the silver threepenny bit (withdrawn I believe with the introduction of the flat sided coin in the nineteen fifties.
The silver content of the coins made them more valuable than face value so they did indeed become scarce . Old copper coins suffered the same fate with many being melted down for scrap (although illegal) - The present "copper" coins have a steel core
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