About time, the so called 'sporty' Zetec doesn't have it as standard, I found the brakes on this to lock up very easily and they suffered badly from fading.
ABS saved mine and a colleagues life a couple of months ago. I had to do a full emergency stop whilst on a bend to avoid hitting a car that had broken down just round the corner. The car (a Vectra) reacted & handled superbly and we stopped from approx 50mph with about 2 metres to spare, if we had been in a non-ABS'd I'm certain we would have hit him or skidded off the road.
Having driven similar models with and without ABS the differences in stopping time/distance even in the dry are more than you might expect.
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Having driven similar models with and without ABS the differences in stopping time/distance even in the dry are more than you might expect.
But surely ABS only operates in emergency situations where the wheels are about to lock and, under normal driving conditions, has no effect on the braking. Or are you continually slamming on the brakes because your speed is too fast for the distance you can see?
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I've never known the ABS to operate on my car and I suspect that I will only notice it when driving on ice/snow at which time I would be better off without it!
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Dizzy
Believe me you'll be far better of with it! You've never seen it operate, which is why you mistakenly think it's no good. I can asure you it is - read the post that started this topic. Those who think they can respond better than ABS are deluding themselves - it's a life saver.
Regards
John S
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Last Friday evening, -4deg C but dry all day before it, approached a 90 degree left bend on a country road after driving 4 miles or so along untreated roads with no problems. This sharp bend must have been shaded all day or had water run-off across it, because I lost practically ALL grip (at no more than 20mph) and went sailing straight towards a telegraph pole. To the right of the telegraph pole was a farm driveway, with ABS chattering away I found enough grip to gently steer the car away from the pole and onto the driveway. I stopped a good 3 car lengths past where the pole was, if I didn't have ABS I'd have been picking bits of headlight out of the wood still.
I don't make a habit of getting myself into dangerous situations, but ABS is an awfully nice thing to have when you find yourself needing it!
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John,
You've distorted what I said. I didn't say that ABS is no good, only that I've not been aware of it in operation. I've had ABS for three years and have never had to 'emergency brake' in that time, hence I've had no call on the ABS.
I've also had no opportunity to see if I can respond faster than ABS -- but I didn't claim that either!
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Dizzy
I'm surprised you've never heard the ABS operating - even without emergency braking. On both our cars it's quite clear when it is in action. It's certainly operated for me in the recent icy weather on untreated roads, even with gentle braking, and I've found that stopping by the road side with one side on gravel or mud can sometimes trigger it.
You commented that you would be better off without it in ice and snow. I interpreted that as you believing you'd do a better job without it. I think you'll find, when it comes to stopping on slippery roads for any reason, ABS does a wonderful job.
Regards
John S
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I'm surprised you've never heard the ABS operating - even without emergency braking.
I feel certain I've never generated the condition that brings ABS into play, on this or any other car fitted with it. I do pay attention to what's happening ahead though, and I go round blind bends with the assumption that there is an obstruction just out of sight. That doesn't mean that I creep around in fear of having a prang -- more the opposite in fact!
On both our cars it's quite clear when it is in action.
The two cars being your Minor 1000 and what? ;-)
That reminds me, I did lock up the wheels on the Triumph a few weeks ago when a car pulled out of a car park right in front of me. Perhaps I should transfer the ABS from the BMW to the Triumph!
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Dizzy
Have you ever tried locking the wheels on a Minor:-) ?
Regards
John S
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The trouble with ABS is when after driving a car with it fitted, you then jump into a car without it. Under normal conditions this is fine, but in an emergency in a non ABS car you can't just hit the anchors and let the black box under the bonnet sort things out. If you're used to driving a car with ABS, it can be dangerous driving one without it.
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Absolutely right! If you drive like a nutter and get used to the ABS sorting out the braking for you, you can get into all sorts of problems in a non-ABS car, it can be frightening. I stuffed my old Mini into a hedge after having become accustomed to the ABS on my company Primera.
Now I pay for my own maintenance and have a bit more respect for my stress levels, I drive much more sensibly!
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...and of course the opposite is that if you're used to sorting out the on-the-limit braking without ABS and jump into a car with ABS it's pretty scary until you familiarise yourself with it.
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Andy S, I wasn't saying I drive like a nutter and rely on the ABS all the time.
Separate note, driving tests. If the car has ABS, do you get marked differently on how well you perform an emergency stop? Do you still have to lift your foot off the brake should the ABS cut in to show you're in control of the vehicle? Have heard it mentioned that that's the wrong thing to do with ABS. Aren't you supposed to leave your foot well and truly planted until the danger is over.
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Andy S, I wasn't saying I drive like a nutter and rely on the ABS all the time.
I didn't say you did either? Raw nerve ;-))
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Driving tests, I was told you don't brake hard enough for the ABS to kick in... But that doesn't sound right to me, I thought you merely had to bring the car to a "controlled" stop - wouldn't two feet on the left two pedals in an ABS car count as "controlled"...?
As TOTH says, someone who knows will be along in a minute.
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I will be moving this to Discussion.
M.
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If people swapping between cars without ABS / with ABS is an argument against it then this applies to all other motoring innovations too.
Whatabout syncromesh / non-synschromesh gearboxes? Perhaps we should all be double-de-clutching? Disc brakes? Pah. Dangerous. What if I get in a car without them?
Personally I think we should go back to cable brakes, solid tyres, wooden wheels and starting handles and that way all cars would be the same and motoring would be much safer.
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Yes under normal braking it makes no difference, as I said in my post I've only had to rely on ABS once (in 7 years of driving). I do drive carefully and leave plently of space in front etc. I was just pointing out that under test emergency braking an ABS'd car is so much better than non. I drive several different cars and I think it is important to understand how your car will react in an emergency just in case the unexpected happens - and if it does I would much rather have ABS.
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I've never had ABS but wish I did...
Mind, my gran's new Focus has pretty impressive brakes without ABS, with it fitted I would expect it would stop dead in the road...
Blue
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I've never had ABS but wish I did... Mind, my gran's new Focus has pretty impressive brakes without ABS, with it fitted I would expect it would stop dead in the road... Blue
ABS doesnt stop you any quicker....
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ABS doesnt stop you any quicker....
Agreed, very popular misconception, and in some circumstances, notably snow, it can take longer to stop. But I did once see a Police driving demo of how to use ABS to its best effect, ie steering round an obstacle whilst emergency braking - very impressive. Only problem is it takes a lot of practice and how many normal drivers even know what it does let alone use it! I learnt to drive in an old Mini, ie virtually no brakes, so I just leave a long gap and am pleasantly suprised if I stop sooner!
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>>I learnt to drive in an old Mini, ievirtually no brakes, so I just leave a long gap and am pleasantly suprised if I stop sooner!
Had a Mk I Polo that was the same. No servo on the RHD ones. I think an optional extra was an anchor in the glovebox.
BTW, the car in question still lives. Often see it around here in Bournemouth/Poole. 1979 "V" 1.1 Polo GLS which had 97k on it when I sold it in 1989/90. VW sure have gone downhill since then.
No Dosh - He who dies with the most toys wins.
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I 'found' the ABS on my xantia this morning.
I think I hit some diesel on the road coming up to a junction. It was the wierdest feeling, like the brakes werned working at all, but they were.
You feel a small judder in the foot pedal. This is the pads 'drumming' the disks. In the late 70s I remember watching a programme on how to stop in the wet by dabbing the break pedal hard ON OFF ON OFF etc at approx half second intervals. The car being used to demonstrate this was a Rover 3500 (pre SDI) I suspect that's what ABS does for you.
So all you drivers without ABS, you may like to bear this in mind.
H
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Sorry, I appreciate my post made me sound a bit mis-guided!
I simply meant that in an ABS equipped model, I could stamp on the pedal as hard as I liked and let the computer find the hardest possible braking force, whereas I was taking it easy on the pedal to avoid locking the wheels (not the way to impress your 71 year old gran and the used car salesman :) Although she says that she always feels perfectly safe when I am driving. :)
Blue
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Hugo is right. ABS switches the brakes on and off to stop the car, without the wheels locking up; a very skilled driver can do this, but most of us can't.
Brake assist, as standard on some cars, such as Mercedes less than five years old, but also all new Mondeos, is the device that applies maximum pressure under emergency braking.
ABS doesn't shorten stopping distances if the driver anticipates locking wheels correctly, and on ice, when all wheels lose traction, is worse than useless. The main advantage of ABS, as well as preventing the car from sliding, is that it enables you to steer and brake at the same time (powerslides not withstanding).
But as I said before, it should be standard on just about every car now except the comically basic, although I'd be reluctant to have it on a 10 year old in case of MoT failure.
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David
Yes an extremely skilled driver can approximate to ABS. What he can't do is modulate the brakes 10 times a second like ABS, he can't achieve that on just the wheel or wheels that are locking as can 4-channel ABS, neither can he put more braking on the wheels that have the grip as can Automatic Brakeforce Distribution. The result is that ABS will achieve the shortest stopping distance consistent with the road conditions. Even on ice, ABS will make a better job of stopping than almost any driver.
Regards
John S
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MikeC. In 1990 I bought a 2.9i Granada and boy did i love that car, but that's another story. To test the theory of ABS I thought there's only one way so here goes. Clear stretch of tarmac, eighty miles an hour and fully stood, and I mean STOOD on the brakes. Within what seemed like a spilt second I was sitting at tickover physically shocked at the speed that it stopped. Yes, it should be law that it is fitted as standard to all cars INCLUDING the comically basic. I fanybody doubts my word then get to an airfied or similar and try it. You WILL be astounded.
Regards.
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